Speaking Engagements - Chat

How to Find Speaking Engagements - Chat

This Tuesday evening Oct. 26 '04, Speaker's Bureau Coordinator Phil Denisch will be leading a workshop on How to Find Speaking Engagements. Please bring your ideas and questions and join us at freestateproject.org/chat at 9pm ET. Hope to see you there!

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

[21:30] <PhilD> OK, the main topic tonight is getting speaking engagments.

[21:31] <PhilD> I'm looking for suggestions as much as sharing what I know (that wouldn't take up 1.5 hrs :)

[21:31] <PhilD> The most obvious place it seems to me (and the easiest) is...

[21:32] <PhilD> local (L)ibertarian meetings

[21:32] <PhilD> most counties have a group that meet from time-to-time and they usually love to have an outside speaker.

[21:33] <PhilD> It's an easy, usually small group, friendly setting that should be "low hanging fruit" as they say.

[21:34] <PhilD> But we shouldn't overlook the Optimists, Oddfellows, Civitan, etc. clubs, thoug

[21:35] <PhilD> Another place to find new groups might be through the web - free-market.net has a whole list of freedom-minded groups

[21:35] <Kat> At toastmasters, they said they often get requests for speakers, but not sure if the audience would be people we'd want to recruit

[21:36] <PhilD> I am especially ashamed, as being near DC (district of corruption) I should be setting up far more engagments

[21:36] <Kat> lol

[21:36] <SethCohn> I spoke before a Rotary group. My best friend was a member, and they have weekly lunches, so they are always looking for people to speak.

[21:36] <PhilD> The people in this area are more than others "into" things political

[21:37] <PhilD> How was the reception from the Rotarians?

[21:37] <SethCohn> heheh, interesting to say the least.

[21:38] <SethCohn> My friend said that it was one of the most provocative talks they had. People got pretty riled up by what I was saying...

[21:38] <PhilD> Interesting, as in "let's think about this"? or intersting as in "get the torches and pitchforks"?

[21:38] <SethCohn> The lesson (an important one) is that groups like Rotary, with a motto of 'Service before Self' don't understand Libertarian ideals easily.

[21:39] <SethCohn> If I had it to do over, I'd do it differently, focusing on issues that they care about, using terms and ideas they'd nod along with.

[21:39] <Kat> What was the topic of your speech?

[21:39] <SethCohn> For instance, it's not Government that cured polio, it was individuals like Rotary.

[21:40] <SethCohn> I spoke on basic Libertarian ideas, leading up the idea of due to lack of representation, the FSP.

[21:41] <SethCohn> I opened with lines quoting Democrats and Republicans talking about bad government, then quoted Hugh Downs who said 'It's Libertarians with all the good ideas'

[21:42] <SethCohn> The problem (as I see it) was that Rotary is so focused on Service over Self, that they don't see the compulsion of others as a problem.

[21:43] <SethCohn> Someone on the forum (Jim Maynard) taked about focusing on small business people... I think that's a great angle to focus on.

[21:43] <PhilD> Do you think there were any serious thinkers about the FSP idea?

[21:43] <SethCohn> Nope, given the town's general politics, didn't think there would be....

[21:44] <PhilD> Business people - great place to look. Any ideas on how best to contact them?

[21:44] <SethCohn> But it got people talking, if nothing else.

[21:44] <PhilD> Chamber of commerce?

[21:45] <SethCohn> Almost all of these sorts of groups, Rotary, Kiwanis, etc, are all really business networking groups too.

[21:45] <Kat> Speaking to small business groups?

[21:45] <SethCohn> 101 reasons why moving your small business to NH makes sense.

[21:46] <SethCohn> The trick will be doing it without losing the liberty activism issue.

[21:48] <PhilD> Any ideas on where to get a list of these types if groups (in a certain area)?

[21:49] <Kat> chamber of commerce sounded like a good idea

[21:51] <PhilD> We really need the speakers to set up the talks (area, schedules, etc)

[21:51] <SethCohn> Rotary, Kiwanis and Lions are considered the 3 big ones for 'Service Clubs'

[21:51] <PhilD> But it wouldn't hurt to try and start the process for them.

[21:52] <Kat> How would you start the process for them?

[21:52] <PhilD> I'll be getting the speaker list map up on the web site shortly, and that may spark a few things.

[21:52] <PhilD> Star by contacing the groups and see if they are at all interested, and if they are get the speaker (or me) involved.

[21:53] <PhilD> The speaker in that area, of course

[21:53] <SethCohn> Another thing wish I'd had better was a good simple speech... I tried to do one, and it was too long, too complex, so I ended up winging more than I liked.

[21:53] <Kat> Any specific types of businesses that would be best?

[21:53] <PhilD> What's the most regulated outside, least reged in NH?

[21:54] <SethCohn> Phil, I think providing 2 or 3 good "Here's what you'll say" speeches would help a LOT in getting people to speak.

[21:54] <Kat> Need some research

[21:54] <SethCohn> I wouldn't focus on specific businesses... small businesses in general would be better.

[21:55] <PhilD> Amanda has a good "talking points" paper - email me if you want it and I'll send it along.

[21:55] <SethCohn> I'd do more than a talking points paper, I'd provide a written tested 10-15 speech...

[21:56] <Kat> things that require a license to start maybe...I'm thinking dumb stuff like "massage therapy" that shouldn't need regulation

[21:56] <Kat> or haircutters

[21:56] <SethCohn> Make it easy for people to give a speech, and you'll get more speakers.

[21:56] <PhilD> Well in Louisiana, I think, they recently started regulating Florists! Maybe we should hit all them up!

[21:57] <Kat> cool :)

[21:57] <PhilD> There are a number of sample speeches on the web site (mixed in among articles, etc)

[21:57] <Kat> Don't you have some sample speeches available?

[21:58] <PhilD> If you like I could write one for a general event or for a specific audience

[21:58] <PhilD> I've got a CD with a lot of the FSP documents on it, including speeches - let me know if you want one.

[22:00] <PhilD> OK, freedom groups, business groups, what else?

[22:00] <SethCohn> http://www.nhes.state.nh.us/elmi/licertoccs/occ_index.html is a list of occupations in NH that require some form of license or cert or registration.

[22:00] <Kat> Great, Seth

[22:00] <PhilD> Colleges should be great places (and high schools for that matter)

[22:01] <PhilD> Most colleges and universities have political clubs if not libertarian ones -

[22:01] <Kat> college objectivist or libertarian groups

[22:01] <PhilD> you could get some good dialog going at those places.

[22:02] <Kat> Homeschool groups

[22:02] <PhilD> Good one, I nearly forgot (just go easy on the very-social freedoms :)

[22:05] <PhilD> One thing I want to make sure we do is get on the list for every Libertarian Convention next year

[22:05] <PhilD> Or at least have a table.

[22:05] <Kat> I think there are still a lot of libertarians who haven't heard of us

[22:05] <PhilD> Just today I had an inquiry from a guy setting up a sci-fi convention

[22:05] <Kat> or who don't know the recent developments in the FSP

[22:06] <Kat> It seemed like a good venue, I went to one

[22:06] <PhilD> Between sci-fi, comic, and anime we should be able to set a few things up.

[22:06] <Kat> So you would have to give a speech about FSP and sci-fi?

[22:06] <Kat> cool

[22:07] <PhilD> I guess we should try for Trek-fests also (even though that universe is pretty ingsoc-ish)

[22:07] <PhilD> The sci-fi guy wnats a speech about the future of policitcs, etc - you can see where I'm saying it's leading

[22:07] <SethCohn> One thing I did that was useful was handout the World's smallest political Quiz.

[22:08] <SethCohn> I'd like to see (and started working on) a FSP/NH specific version.

[22:08] <Kat> good way to be interactive with the audience?

[22:08] <PhilD> I see the future! I see the Free State. Not just in NH but thougout the entire galaxy!![22:08] <Kat> lol

[22:09] <PhilD> Does Brian Sullivan have a supply of those quizzes?

[22:09] <SethCohn> L. Neil Smith fans

[22:09] <Kat> Not that I know of, Phil

[22:09] <PhilD> I'll get some to him. Although som epeople have "issues" with it, it's still pretty good

[22:11] <SethCohn> That's why I'd like to see a FSP version focusing on finding people who would be good people to move.

[22:10] <PhilD> How about computer clubs?

[22:10] <Kat> like the FSP?

[22:11] <PhilD> lol

[22:11] <SethCohn> I'd be wary of straying too far afield... specific topic groups like computers are a minefield, if only because it's so offtopic.

[22:11] <Kat> Sounds like a good idea. You could focus on computer privacy type issues

[22:12] <Kat> Geeks are often libertarian

[22:12] <PhilD> Good point. But we do need to reach farther afield from where we have to date.

[22:12] <SethCohn> Some geeks are libertarian... but not all.

[22:13] <Kat> Yes, Seth

[22:13] <SethCohn> For groups like that, I'd attend them and invite those interested to some other place that's more neutral.

[22:14] <SethCohn> I've spoken (and run) computer groups, and it's hard enough getting people, let alone for stuff that not computer related.

[22:14] <Kat> But where do computer nerds meet? on the internet

[22:14] <SethCohn> Everyone meets on the internet now. (grin)

[22:14] <Kat> online speeches?

[22:14] <PhilD> A little off topic for tonight, but what's the felling towards banner ads and the like?

[22:15] <SethCohn> I like Banner ads.

[22:16] <Kat> I haven't noticed how well they actually get us recruits

[22:17] <SethCohn> When they've run, they've gotten people looking at the site... the problem is that we haven't used targeted pages to direct people to.

[22:17] <SethCohn> Ads are more effective if they are customized to sell to a particular audience, and followup pages would increase signups.

[22:18] <PhilD> Let's check the stats for that, it's been something I've wanted to do for a while

[22:18] <PhilD> Does El Neil sell space on his site (or are they all westerners)?

[22:18] <russellkanning> I am a westerner and I am moving

[22:19] <SethCohn> He does... and but likely his audience has already heard of us.

[22:19] <russellkanning> It is not hopeless

[22:19] <SethCohn> We need ads in places where people haven't heard of the FSP.

[22:19] <PhilD> One thing to remember, face-to-face requests for speaking engagements work best.

[22:19] <PhilD> Most of my email requests have *not* worked. :(

[22:20] <Kat> So you have to attend their meetings and ask for a speaking engagement?

[22:21] <SethCohn> This is networking 101: you need to meet people.

[22:21] <PhilD> Sometimes, yes or talking to them in some other place (or even calling on the phone)

[22:21] <Kat> I tried sending email offers for speakers and got no repies

[22:22] <SethCohn> If you want to speak someplace, and they haven't invited you, it's unlikely to happen unless you meet them, or know someone there.

[22:24] <PhilD> Allright then - who wants us that may not know it? :)

[22:25] <Kat> true conservatives, fed up with Bush?

[22:25] <Kat> true liberals, fed up with war?

[22:26] <PhilD> And what groups do they belong to?

[22:27] <russellkanning> some of the 'patriot' type groups

[22:27] <russellkanning> help them put aside all their little differences

[22:27] <Kat> I know of some peace action groups...they might be good sorts of targets

[22:28] <russellkanning> and get something accomplished :)

[22:28] <russellkanning> like the 3rd parties groups that keep getting shut out

[22:28] <russellkanning> in NH and elsewhere

[22:30] <PhilD> Do you think the Constitution Party would like to hear from us (or do they think we're all (L)s?

[22:32] <Kat> it wouldn't hurt to try

[22:33] <SethCohn> After Nov 2nd, no matter which Skull and Bones wins, I suspect a lot of people will be more interested in hearing an alternative answer.

[22:34] <PhilD> True, we should capitalize on that wherever possible

[22:35] <russellkanning> I know all of you guys are on east coast time...it is getting late for you guys

[22:36] <russellkanning> lol on the skull and bones

[22:36] <russellkanning> joke

[22:36] <PhilD> I guess we should wrap this up - there is a speakers section on the forum, we can continue there

[22:37] <PhilD> If you want any sample speecehs, etc. let me know.

[22:37] <Kat> where is the speaker's section, Phil?

[22:39] <PhilD> Right on top under the "FSP activist center"

[22:41] <Kat> oh on the forum :)_

[22:41] <russellkanning> on the forum kat

[22:41] <russellkanning> oh she found

[22:41] <russellkanning> it

[22:41] <russellkanning> yeah

[22:41] <Kat> Thanks so much for coming out tonight to do this, Phil

[22:42] <Kat> Shall we call it an evening?

[22:42] <PhilD> My pleasure, thank you for setting all these up!

[22:42] <PhilD> 'nite all.

Recruiting Workshop

Recruiting Workshop - Chat

This Thursday evening 11/11/04, we will be holding a recruiting workshop. Your recruiting efforts are critical to the success of the Free State Project if we are to reach our 20,000 goal. Please bring your questions and recruiting ideas and join us at freestateproject.org/chat at 9pm ET. Hope to see you there!

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

18:03:31 [Kat] I'm Kat Dillon, Volunteer support director for the Free State Project

18:03:45 [Kat] Thank you all for coming tonight

18:03:49 [ct236] That's funny...we thought you were Kat Kanning....

18:04:22 [ct236] :--)

18:04:27 [Kat] First off, I'd like to hear what aspects of recruiting you all are interested in, or have questions about

18:04:38 [Russell] We are tag teaming you tonight

18:05:18 [nx2059] we need to decide who is most receptive to Libertarian ideals and target them

18:05:20 [Kat] Hush Tim :P

18:05:52 [gitelsarah] I don't even have the foggiest idea on how to recruit. I'd like to hear what some people have done that is successful.

18:05:55 [ct236] Oh shucks...I thought I was anonymous. I agree with nx by the way.

18:06:26 PatK enters this room

18:06:28 JohnM enters this room

18:06:33 [nx2059] read the folling post..

18:06:35 Jon enters this room

18:06:37 [nx2059] http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=58;action=display;
threadid=8648;start=msg116499#msg116499

18:06:43 [PatK] Hi Kat and all

18:07:13 [Kat] Nice idea, an online game

18:07:46 DadaOrwell enters this room

18:07:54 [Kat] Let's start with some general ideas on how to recruit, and then we can focus on the libertarians and games ideas

18:07:56 [nx2059] God knows we have enough IT people with the FSP..

18:08:00 [ct236] Hey Dada.

18:08:08 [Kat] Hi everyone who just came in

18:08:10 [DadaOrwell] hi all!

18:08:31 [JohnM] Hi, everyone!

18:08:33 anonymous enters this room

18:08:46 [Kat] The best way to recruit is through the local groups

18:08:48 anonymous exits from this room

18:08:53 BR enters this room

18:09:00 SkippyBob enters this room

18:09:02 [Kat] gitelsarah, are you near a local group, do you know?

18:09:19 [nx2059] I'm just thinking that if you wanna recuit it would be best to spend your time and energy on demographics who are going to but our um... how shall I say... "radical" ideas..

18:09:31 [ct236] General ideas on how to recruit? Target, target, target, is my first thought. There is no general constituency for libertarianism or really smaller government in America today. Thus, we've got to look for recruits in specific subsets of the population.

18:09:36 [nx2059] buy'

18:09:40 [gitelsarah] You mean the FSP Chicago-Milwaukee group?

18:09:51 [gitelsarah] Or do you mean some non-FSP group?

18:10:05 [Kat] Oh great. Tim Bauman's a good guy

18:10:11 [Kat] Yes, that group

18:10:25 [JohnM] Kat, do you know what's behind the recent surge in sign-ups? Just wondering what's working now.

18:10:44 [nx2059] I would guess it's GW..

18:11:00 [Kat] Some general things you can do with your local group is target local events that have some liberty bent

18:11:13 [jonathani1] Good idea

18:11:16 [Kat] like gun shows

18:11:27 [Kat] and hand out flyers about the FSP

18:11:36 [Kat] talk to people about it

18:11:40 [jonathani1] Homeschooling associations

18:11:51 [nx2059] gun shows tend to be filled with republicans.

18:12:13 [Kat] JohnM...I can't trace it down to one thing. The Reason Magazine article helped, but that isn't all it

18:12:25 [jonathani1] we need republicans and dems

18:12:26 [JohnM] ok, thanks.

18:12:34 [Kat] my theory is people are fed up because of the election and are looking for something else

18:12:52 [jonathani1] libertarian ones

18:12:58 [JohnM] That's what I was thinking too.

18:13:03 [Russell] I agree

18:13:47 [Kat] Other things that can be done is to get involved with the Community Liaisons, the Speakers Bureau

18:13:49 [nx2059] the thing is though, if we attract republicans and dems, we'll end up with what we have now.

18:14:06 [JohnM] Not necessarily.

18:14:18 [JohnM] Some Republicans want small government.

18:14:18 [nx2059] why not?

18:14:31 [jonathani1] I'm personally conservative, politically libertarian

18:14:33 [Kat] Liaisons target one specific group, such as homeschoolers or gun rights

18:14:39 [JohnM] Not all Reps want to spend tax dollars like drunken sailors.

18:14:46 [ct236] Because many Republicans are libertarians, such as Ron Paul. And there are left-libertarians within the Democratic party.

18:15:02 [Kat] Speakers go out to local events and talk to people about the FSP

18:15:15 [jonathani1] Kat, any effort to reach out to mainstream America?

18:15:21 [JohnM] I'm a registered Independent and this year was the first time I voted for any Libertarian candidate.

18:15:29 [JonM] a large segment of people who would support the FSP probably still think Libertarians (big L) are all or nothing extremist nutjobs

18:15:36 [ct236] A waste of time and other resources, IMO, Jon.

18:15:38 [nx2059] Yea, but why arn't they assoiated with the LP, or running as independants?

18:15:50 [JohnM] The FSP is not strictly for Libertarians so our recruitment should not be limited to just them.

18:16:23 [Kat] One really effective method of recruiting I've seen recently...

18:16:30 [nx2059] yea, but our eventual goal is pretty much what the LP's goals are

18:16:33 [jonathani1] ct -- the problem is that the movement needs to reach beyond current libertarians to reach critical mass

18:16:35 [JohnM] nx, that's a whole different discussion.

18:16:38 [ct236] Because there's no chance of making any changes or of getting elected if you work only within the LP. Ditto for being independents.

18:16:55 [Kat] An ad was placed (for not a lot of money) in an online newsletter. We got about a dozen signups out of it

18:17:01 [nx2059] fair enough JM

18:17:05 Seth enters this room

18:17:11 [Kat] people can look for venues for such ads

18:17:40 [nx2059] what was the content of the add?

18:17:40 [JohnM] We need to focus our recruiting efforts on anyone who seeks a small, limited government - regardless of party affiliation.

18:17:44 [jonathani1] Libs are spinning the Benson upset -- it was a huge loss

18:17:55 [jonathani1] Unless we can do better in NH, it's over

18:18:03 [ct236] Yes, Jon, the FSP does need to reach beyond current libertarians, but *all* the people we reach out to must be freedom-lovers, and in favor of radical reduction in the size and scope of government. That's not a generally held view within the general population.

18:18:13 [JohnM] Kat, what online newsletter? What type of organization?

18:18:28 [Kat] So what venues, other than the Libertarian party, do people think we should recruit from?

18:18:32 [Seth] Benson lost due to Kerry voters... he was otherwise doing well enough to win a second term.

18:18:57 [Kat] JohnM, it was "This is True" which went out to a couple hundred thousand people

18:19:05 [JonM] Cato Republicans

18:19:22 [ct236] Constitutionalists. 2nd Amendment supporters. Home schoolers. Anti-taxpayer groups.

18:19:43 [Kat] Any ideas on how to encourage CATO to support us?

18:19:52 [ct236] Benson may also have lost because of vote fraud in NH. It's being looked into by the state attorney general now.

18:19:53 [Kat] They haven't been receptive to the idea

18:19:56 [JohnM] Kat, I'm not familiar with "This is True". Is it a libertarian-oriented pub?

18:20:15 [jonathani1] Re: successful publicity: I'm curious, has anyone from the New York City encountered the Jews for Jesus momement?

18:20:18 [JonM] advertising on drudge woulda been worth nearly any price for november 2nd...I think he said he got like 30 million hits or something

18:20:28 [Seth] Anti-taxpayer groups: dangerous group (and I'm an anti-tax person) due to too much bad press.

18:20:30 [Kat] No, it's not libertarian at all. It just a news of the weird type thing

18:20:34 [JonM] Kat: bribes?

18:20:38 [jonathani1] With 30 volunteers, in a month, they handed out over 1000,000 pamphlets

18:20:44 [ct236] It's quirkly, John. Check it out: http://www.thisistrue.com/

18:20:47 [JohnM] ok, thanks Kat.

18:20:59 [gitelsarah] We have Jews for J in Chicago.

18:21:02 [JohnM] thanks.

18:21:29 [Seth] 2nd amendment supporters: the NRA is not going to endorse us. They had Tim arrested as I recall.

18:21:32 [Kat] That's great, jonathan! How did they get that done?

18:21:46 [JohnM] As for Cato, my guess is they can't endorse the FSP because of the political aspect of it. dunno.

18:21:55 [Kat] well having tim arrested was a great service to mankind

18:22:03 [ct236] Yes. But Larry Pratt of the Gun Owners of America *has* endorsed us, and I'll bet the JPFO would also.

18:22:32 [ct236] Thank you Kathyn. Russell, divorce her.

18:22:47 [Kat] More interesting to the duscussion here tonight though, is what we as individuals can do to recruit

18:23:01 [Russell]

18:23:11 [Seth] I'd prefer to see reaching out to new groups

18:23:22 [jonathani1] Kat, J4J volunteers hit the streets for a month in July. They hand out pamphlets, all hand-written and reproduced on bright color sheets. Each pamphlet can be read in under a minute -- contains only a nugget of their message.

18:23:23 [ct236] Name 'em Seth.

18:23:26 [Russell] which new groups?

18:23:27 [JohnM] What kind of groups, Seth?

18:23:44 [Seth] the Business entrepreneur idea comes to mind.

18:23:44 [jonathani1] They have catchy titles such as "Beware of religious fanatics handing out pamphlets"

18:23:50 [Kat] for Cato, you could attend cato events and talk to people, hand out FSP literature

18:23:57 [jonathani1] And "eating healthier and enjoying it less"

18:24:09 [Kat] wow re j4j

18:24:26 [Seth] jon: unless you plan on herding lots of cats into a cult, we aren't going to be able to do a J4J style thing.

18:24:29 philwelch enters this room

18:25:02 [Kat] Seth, it's interesting to see how they got this accomplished, not their message

18:25:10 [Seth] other groups: We've done little with the left side, due to the percieved big government mindset.

18:25:23 [JohnM] I like the idea of targeting business owners/entrepreneurs....as long as they intend to be politically active.

18:25:39 [nx2059] I ran a libertaian booth at my college a while back, and I got a lot of resistance from everybody.. Though I do live in Illinois

18:25:40 [jonathani1] My point re: J4J: With minimal money, and a very abbreivated, repeated message, geared to current events and pop culture, they are exceedingly successful at getting across their message

18:25:59 [Seth] Kat: They got people to stand around, handing out pamplets to everyone.... for hours and hours... can't imagine FSP types doing that without a cult

18:26:19 [gitelsarah] In Chicago, J4J frequently has volunteers standing on street corners downtown passing out pamphlets. Especially during rush hour.

18:26:31 [jonathani1] right sarah

18:26:40 [nx2059] the question is though is handing out pamphlets to everybody really going to get people change their political views?

18:26:48 [Russell] I did it at a homeschooling convention

18:26:48 [Kat] well, I could see some stoned FSPers doing that :P

18:27:10 [Seth] The key is going to be targeted marketing. Unlike J4J, we aren't looking for just anyone.

18:27:17 [jonathani1] nx -- for the thousands of people that take the broadside, if a hundred in an hour contact them, it's worth it

18:27:22 [Kat] you're going to get the message out to a targeted group who might be interested

18:27:26 [philwelch] another question is, are we going to recruit existing freedom sympathyzers, or convert people to freedom sympathizers, and proceed to recruit them?

18:27:28 [gitelsarah] I would think that it would be better to distribute fewer flyers to better targets, rather than trying to get to everyone.

18:27:33 [philwelch] exactly

18:27:35 [JohnM] I don't think we should be trying to change peoples' political views. We want to find people who already desire smaller government.

18:27:38 [Seth] we want to reach what is estimated to be around 14-17% of the general population.

18:27:38 [jonathani1] The pamphlets are far cheaper than tv, etc

18:28:11 [Kat] I think mostly recruit freedom sympathizers

18:28:17 [Russell] handing out pamphlets can put our name before people and let them know we are alive and kicking

18:28:18 [Seth] pamphlets are untargeted marketing.

18:28:24 [JonM] we need to get Michael Moore to hate us, then we'll get lots of publicity!

18:28:33 [Kat] the LP has been trying to educate for years....not that education shouldn't be done

18:28:34 [Russell]

18:28:39 [philwelch] it's not that hard, we need to find 14,000 libertarians in the united states who haven't already signed up

18:28:48 [Seth] Unless you are handing them out in a special event (Thank you Russell)

18:28:49 [nx2059] but if we attract people who "think" they want smaller government but don't understand the consquences of limited government, that it will be in vain.

18:28:58 [Kat] lol JonM

18:29:08 [jonathani1] Are there enough existing liberarians in the US who will move to NH?

18:29:14 [jonathani1] Education is key

18:29:29 [jonathani1] I don't think we can grow further without bringing new people in

18:29:36 [jonathani1] publicity only goes so far

18:29:37 [JohnM] jonathani1 ~ that is the $64,000 question.

18:29:42 [Russell] how about anti Michael moore pamphlets

18:29:48 [Kat] There are plenty of libertarians out there

18:29:49 [Seth] Libertarians, no. Small-l, yes. 14% of the population minimum is small L.

18:30:06 [philwelch] badnarik got 400,000 votes. adding in libertarians who didn't vote for badnarik, we could easily get 14k

18:30:23 [jonathani1] Committed libertarians? Ones who will do more than mark a ballot?

18:30:39 [gitelsarah] I must be tired. I thought phil said 14,000 LIBRARIANS. But since so many of them are affected by the Patriot Act, they probably understand smaller government. Maybe we should target them.

18:30:40 [Kat] Targeting Badnarik voters would be great

18:30:41 [jonathani1] Practically, we have not seen that level of commitment

18:30:46 [nx2059] I told my brother that in a true libertarian state, you could go walking down the street high and armed to the teeth.. This was just the honest truth that we have to convince people to bet on.

18:30:49 [Seth] The question is: if we've reach the 1-2% who know they are L, where are the small-L who don't realize they are, and how can we target them?

18:30:56 [philwelch] well, that's what i'm saying, a minority of that 400k

18:30:58 [Kat] sarah

18:31:16 [philwelch] Seth, that seems to be what Advocates for Self-Govt are doing

18:31:37 [Seth] Sarah, all the Librarians must move to Claremont. The press is expecting them.

18:31:40 [Kat] We should find the small l libs in related groups, gun rights, etc.

18:31:50 [Kat] lol Seth

18:31:57 [jonathani1] Kat: Where can I get a graphic file (vector-based) of the Porc logo?

18:32:01 [Seth] Phil: Advocates preaches to the choir... sad but true.

18:32:04 [jonathani1] I would like to print some posters

18:32:15 [JohnM] Would it be possible for the FSP to get the list of people who donated to the Badnarik campaign. that would be a targeted list.

18:32:26 [Kat] just a sec...I'll look jonathan

18:32:35 [jonathani1] Good idea, JohnM

18:32:38 [Seth] JohnM: it's public info, thanks to the SEC.

18:33:10 yum enters this room

18:33:10 [jonathani1] It would be interesting to find out how much we can purchase the list for

18:33:11 [Kat] http://freestateproject.org/getinvolved/downloads/logos/

18:33:16 [JohnM] Addresses too?

18:33:21 [jonathani1] A mailing campaign would be a good idea.

18:33:23 [Kat] are those high enough quality?

18:33:27 [philwelch] being a porc himself, Badnarik could help recruit

18:33:54 [philwelch] when he's done with his current project (recounting Ohio)

18:33:55 [gitelsarah] What about having a joint OPH / FSP booth? Once we get people to realize they are libertarians, it might be easier to sell them on FSP.

18:33:58 [Kat] I saw an ad for 5000 tri color postcards for ~$400

18:34:03 [JohnM] I look into what's available on the FEC website as far as public info goes.

18:34:19 [philwelch] i dunno, gitelsarah

18:34:24 [Kat] OPH?

18:34:31 [Seth] Jon: email Tom and ask him if we have a vector of the logo, not sure we do.

18:34:41 [philwelch] it's easy to convince people, "hey, my political views are closer to these libertarians than to anyone else"

18:34:44 [gitelsarah] Operation Politically Homeless. It's an Advocates outreach tool.

18:34:59 [Seth] Sarah: Yes, I'm working on a quiz just for that reason.

18:35:00 [philwelch] it's quite another thing to convince people, "hey, i'm going to DISRUPT MY LIVE AND MOVE TO NEW HAMPSHIRE!"

18:35:25 [JohnM] That's exactly right, Phil.

18:35:32 johnbrush enters this room

18:35:33 [nx2059] philw- yea, that's a problem

18:35:35 [jonathani1] Thanks Kat. I'm downloading now. Will check back

18:35:39 [philwelch] that's why i think we should focus on those who are already devoted to the cause

18:36:01 [nx2059] or target the youth.

18:36:03 [JohnM] Voting and supporting Libertarians and other small-government candidates is one thing....moving to NH and being politically active is a whole different ballgame.

18:36:18 [philwelch] although we shouldn't underestimate the impact of recruiting disaffected college students

18:36:31 [Kat] What's cool is that there are so many people in the FSP, we can target those who are devoted to liberty, and we can also try and target other people

18:36:36 [Russell] that is why porcupines rock

18:36:45 [Kat] who maybe don't know yet what liberty means to them

18:36:52 [Seth] Phil: Sad but true, we're getting lots of resistance from some strong LP types. They are scared that many will move and their own state will lose help. (Despite the fact that not one state LP is doing well now)

18:37:30 [philwelch] well, i think the national LP strategy should adjust to compensate. focusing funds and other fluid resources to NH and a few other states

18:37:31 [Kat] I think this country is so getting so bad more and more people realize that something needs to change

18:37:40 [nx2059] again Seth points out another reason for targeting the younger audience

18:37:40 [philwelch] like MA and IL, which have weak Republican parties

18:37:46 [johnbrush] Hi All: I'm very new to this so trying to get some sense of where this is going.

18:37:49 [Kat] Democrats are thinking of emigating to Canada, wow

18:37:50 [JohnM] I agree, Kat.

18:38:10 [nx2059] and once the dem's are gone, we'll be stuck in Jesus land

18:38:11 [philwelch] the LP doesn't need to have a nationwide presence

18:38:16 [JohnM] Hi, John B. Welcome.

18:38:27 [philwelch] if we concentrate population in New Hampshire and other resources in other targeted states

18:38:28 [jonathani1] Kat: The lard JPG may work. I'm not sure.

18:38:28 [Kat] hi johnbrush, welcome

18:38:35 [jonathani1] large

18:38:55 [Seth] jonathani1> tparker@freestateproject.org I think

18:39:03 [JonM] weak doesn't begin to describe MA's republican party

18:39:25 [JonM] it needs to get a lot stronger to become weak

18:39:37 [philwelch] all we need to do, nationwide, is get enough congressional representation to cover the gap between the Republicans and Democrats, so that when we vote with the republicans, they win--when we vote with the democrats, they win--a dynamic, double coalition

18:39:45 [Seth] JonM: and notice that a anti-income tax made the ballot. Hmm..

18:39:58 [Kat] about the democrats moving: people are thinking that the situation here is dire enough to pack up and move. The time is ripe for the FSP

18:40:13 [Seth] phil: good luck, now back to reality and the FSP.

18:40:16 [philwelch] yeah

18:40:33 [jonathani1] Thanks Seth

18:40:37 [JonM] well the income tax repeal got a lot of support from people who fully realized that even if it passed the legislature would just re-enact it

18:40:37 [Kat] If I miss a question directed at me, please repeat

18:40:38 [philwelch] well, we can apply the same model in NH legislature

18:40:39 [nx2059] Kat- if of course they believe in what the FSP stands for.

18:41:09 [JohnM] One advertising idea that I've been thinking about is this...

18:41:13 [Seth] I think we need to target Maine, and Mass, and the other nearby "Blue" states...

18:41:13 [johnbrush] Hi, Thank you. I am in CT but have always looked to NH as a possible place to settle, mainly because of thier taxation policies but now you raise other possibilities

18:41:33 [gitelsarah] I thought I heard that Canada is not eagerly accepting any and all immigrants from USA. Those that can't get in to Canada may be interested in FSP.

18:41:56 [JonM] we don't want those people

18:42:08 [Seth] Phil: happened before (ask Don Gorman about it) and is happening again slowly (NHLA goal)

18:42:12 [philwelch] we don't necessarily want disaffected liberals

18:42:16 [svillee] For targeting specific states, it's interesting to look at the current member count by state, as a percentage of the population.

18:42:19 [Kat] I don't really want to recruit a lot of people interested in the nanny state

18:42:34 [JonM] if you're so ticked off that bush won, you're probably not for smaller government

18:42:41 [svillee] This may indicate states where the population tends to be receptive.

18:42:50 [philwelch] NH is already well outside of jesusland

18:43:10 [Seth] We want the 2% cream of the left, who are more libertarian, and less socialist.

18:43:14 [Kat] I'm so ticked off that bush won, I moved to NH

18:43:17 [svillee] District of Columbia is near the top of the list, with 24 current members and a population of only half a million.

18:43:35 [Seth] Anyone seen the Free Liberal newspaper?

18:44:07 [Seth] http://www.freeliberal.com

18:44:24 [JonM] didn't kerry get 90% of the DC vote?

18:44:42 [gitelsarah] Seth: Is there something of particular interest?

18:45:02 [jonathani1] Kat, are there any plans underway that individual members can get involved in? Current publicity

18:45:44 [Seth] Sarah: it's a left-libertarian newspaper. We need to reach those people.

18:46:02 [Kat] several people are getting together to recruit small businesses to move to NH

18:46:15 [nx2059] Wee need some feed back about recuiting and converting people ideas. Survey's come to mind.

18:46:25 [JohnM] Go to the About TFL page...in the current issue it's asking if a Libertarian can upset Bush in 2004.

18:46:56 [JohnM] Good find, Seth. I think that would be a good place to target left-libertarians.

18:46:57 [Kat] and you can ask Bob Hull about current ad campaigns rhull@wallnet.com

18:47:21 [jonathani1] Will do... I'd like to help out -- time-wise and financially

18:47:32 [Kat] and talk to Steve Cobb about current publicity scobb@freestateproject.org

18:48:07 [Kat] if anyone is interested in recruiting small businesses, Evan Nappen is working on that enappen@freestateproject.org

18:48:18 equality7- enters this room

18:48:23 [Kat] Great, jonathan!

18:48:51 [Kat] nx2059 Would you be willing to write up a survey?

18:49:22 [nx2059] who would be the target audience? and in what context would it be used?

18:49:26 [JonM] they link the one state two state article that mentions the FSP on that site too

18:49:49 [Kat] I thought you had something in mind

18:50:02 [nx2059] ok, I got something...

18:50:47 [Seth] Quick brainstorm people: when you think Independent Individualist Self-responsible, what groups do you think of?

18:50:53 [nx2059] I guess the world's smallest politcal quiz could do.

18:51:05 [jonathani1] I have got to go. Good talking all

18:51:23 [PatK] the amish

18:51:27 [Kat] Seth is writing an FSP version of the smallest political quiz

18:51:36 [Kat] thanks for coming jonathan!

18:51:41 [gitelsarah] Maybe the survey should start with current FSPers and find out what made them join.

18:51:56 [Seth] Patk: good one.

18:52:00 [jonathani1] Thanks for your help Kat. Keep up the good work

18:52:05 [Kat] that's good info sarah

18:52:10 [Kat]

18:52:19 [Seth] http://gnuhampshire.org/fspquiz.php

18:52:19 [gitelsarah] I know I saw the ad in the LP News for months before I even thought of checking it out.

18:52:25 [nx2059] and use the SPQ to find out if they are actually in the libertarian area.

18:52:48 [Kat] we have a small amount of data on what made people join, but maybe a longer more detailed survey would help

18:53:03 [JonM] I first heard about the FSP on This American Life

18:53:28 SkippyBob exits from this room

18:53:33 [Kat] This American Life was a while back?

18:53:35 [JonM] but then, I joined because they picked NH

18:53:41 [JonM] feb 2003 or so

18:54:22 [nx2059] we could spam people with Seth's quiz :-)

18:55:20 [JohnM] Does anyone know the FSP's plans for advertising?

18:56:11 [Seth] JohnM: Radio is one thing currently, some banner ads too.

18:56:39 [Seth] basically: the place for the right place... too many good places are priced too high for our current funds.

18:56:43 [JohnM] Oh yeah, I've pledge some bucks towards the MD radio ad.

18:56:55 [nx2059] how about online surveying, where the surveyers are paid to take the survey?

18:57:00 [Kat] JohnM, there should be a report on advertising from Bob Hull on the website soon

18:57:19 [JohnM] Ok, Kat.

18:57:21 [nx2059] word about easy money tends to get out fast

18:57:28 [Kat] I know he's running ads on worldnetdaily and various other places

18:58:31 johnbrush exits from this room

18:58:44 [JohnM] I'm thinking about putting an ad in the Phoenix New Times, which is an "alternative news weekly". Many cities have something similar.

18:59:06 [JohnM] http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/

18:59:17 [JohnM] I will look into the cost.

18:59:18 [Kat] that would be great. It's not expensive?

18:59:23 [Kat] ok

18:59:28 [Seth] JohnM: I was looking at classified ads running nationwide... someone needs to fund it, but it's doable.

18:59:38 [Kat] if you need help preparing the ad, talk to Bob Hull

19:00:22 [JohnM] It has ads on the back page, that must not be too expensive (considering the things that are advertised there).

19:00:39 [Kat] What aspects of Phoenix politics might make the residents receptive to the FSP mesasge?

19:00:43 [JonM] how much does a billboard cost?

19:00:49 [JohnM] I will definitely need help creating an ad. I'll start a thread in the forum once I find out the cost.

19:01:09 [Kat] Don't know about the billboard, but that's a great idea

19:01:30 [JohnM] Re: Phx politics...a number of things actually.

19:01:40 [nx2059] how about people in Nevada? That's sort of an "anything goes" culture.

19:01:41 [PatK] well we will have to try to make sure the the FSP add is not under the one for giant dildos

19:01:57 [JonM] why not?

19:02:00 [Seth] I think I found a source for the Badnarik contributors list.

19:02:03 [JohnM] But the voters did well on all the ballot propositions this time, though. So not like I thought it would be.

19:02:07 [Kat] You might focus on one hot Phx issue. Make it like a shadow ad

19:02:13 [Kat] Great Seth

19:02:43 [Seth] PatK: why not... we aren't against Giant Dildos, so long as they aren't govt sponsored.

19:03:03 [Kat] Well the gov't is full of big dicks

19:03:11 [JohnM] Yeah, Kat. No specific issues right now that would make for a good shadow ad.

19:03:28 [nx2059] Seth-- agreed, we should show our true colors and be pround of them.

19:03:32 [Kat] Any kind of ad would be great, though

19:03:34 [JohnM] LOL @ Kat.

19:03:34 [JonM] we just need to get a FSP member on Jeopardy who will break Ken Jennings' record

19:03:41 [svillee] Politically I agree Phoenix is a good target. The problem is they'll be especially reluctant to move to a cold climate.

19:03:56 [JonM] every day talking about the FSP + over $2 million dollars!

19:04:03 [Kat] Russell just moved from NV. I moved from TX

19:04:06 [JohnM] That's putting it mildly, svillee.

19:04:11 [gitelsarah] How about an ad that says something like "Do you want the governemtn knowing that you have a Giant Dildo? Shouldn't what you do in your own home be your business?"

19:04:14 [philwelch] LOL

19:04:15 [JonM] does anyone in the FSP know everything?

19:04:31 [Kat] lol sarah

19:04:44 [Kat] know everything about what?

19:05:07 [JonM] well, the only subjects Ken has had trouble with is Sports I think

19:05:22 [JohnM] You know what, Sarah. Something like that just might work.

19:05:26 [philwelch] yeah

19:05:36 [philwelch] and they put at least one bible category up there per day for him to clean up on

19:06:13 [JonM] who doesn't know who Ken Jennings is nowadays?

19:06:20 [gitelsarah] You know, when celebrities play on these shows, they play for charity. Couldn't we find a celebrity who would play for the FSP?

19:06:25 [PatK] nothing wrong with giant didldos I just don't want us mistaken as a group of giant dildos

19:06:39 [nx2059] LOL

19:06:52 [gitelsarah] We would not only get some money, we would also get some publicity.

19:07:04 [JonM] except the FSP isn't a charity

19:07:31 [nx2059] the porn industry would really like us.

19:07:34 [gitelsarah] then we need to form some organization that is, to funnel the money through.

19:08:25 [Kat] We could become more like NV, only smaller

19:08:39 [Kat] the FSP is a non profit, at least

19:08:39 [PatK] good rock band name though=giant dildos for freedom

19:08:47 [Kat] lol Pat

19:08:54 [nx2059] but with legal drugs and guns

19:09:11 [Kat] How did the dildos come up anyway (so to speak)?

19:09:13 [philwelch] well, that's if we want to put someone on celebrity jeopardy, and if we put someone halfway smart on there he'll clean up, because the celebrities on celebrity jeopardy are usually dumb

19:09:32 [Seth] In Oregon, there is a Libertarian who is in the Porn biz... she wasn't willing to move to NH, due to the Industry being in CA.

19:10:01 [Kat] not much filmmaking in NH?

19:10:05 [JonM] seen this? http://www.weebl.jolt.co.uk/band.htm

19:10:23 [JonM] maybe someone can convince him to do a FSP weebl and bob

19:10:32 [nx2059] I guess it boils down to the Drug, Porn, Gun & anti-tax people that we have something to really offer.

19:10:42 [JohnM] Here's an idea, some Porc should enter the World Series of Poker and when they get to the final table, make sure he (or she) is wearing an FSP T-shirt.

19:11:06 [Kat] lots of other groups would be interested. I found out about the FSP through a homeschool group

19:11:40 [Kat] I know someone who almost made it into the world series of poker

19:11:42 [PatK] 10 grand entry fee for poker I think

19:11:45 [nx2059] Kat- ok them too but they already have some of that with the government we've got

19:11:50 [Kat] He might be willing to do the FSP shirt thing

19:11:52 [JonM] I failed in my attempt to make it to the Foxwoods World Poker Tour event this saturday

19:12:03 [philwelch] are poker fans liberty-leaning? i guess they are, since they're pro-legalized-gambling

19:12:05 [philwelch] maybe

19:12:11 [JonM] 135th place...in a sattelite tourney

19:12:40 [JonM] I've had the FSP logo as my pokerstars picture for months and as of yet, no one has asked about it

19:12:42 [JohnM] Hey, that's great JonM.

19:13:09 [Kat] That's not the point, nx, we're just locating people who are interested in Freedom. Homeschoolers are a group who are rejecting govt schools and other regulation on our lives. There are other similar groups out there

19:13:27 [Kat] we don't have to reach out to extreme groups exclusively

19:13:40 [Kat] cool Jon

19:14:02 [nx2059] Kat - but when we ask them to accept the extreme groups some tend to flip out.

19:14:05 [Kat] that's an interesting group to target, poker fans

19:14:07 [JohnM] Yeah, nx. The FSP is not just about those groups.

19:15:01 [nx2059] no but all our competitors us them against us.

19:15:13 [JohnM] Anyway, back to recruiting.

19:15:20 [JonM] well I was gonna get a FSP shirt if I made it into the WPT event, that's another $10,000 buy in thing

19:15:44 [JohnM] A cheap, easy, and effective way is still to post on internet forums. That's how I found out about the FSP.

19:15:47 [JonM] perhaps I'll win my way into one at some point

19:15:49 [Kat] wearing FSP shirts are a good way to get people talking about the FSP

19:16:01 [JonM] use the FSP in your forum signature

19:16:12 [Kat] ya, emails sigs are good

19:18:11 [JohnM] OK, everyone, I need to leave. Bye.

19:18:11 [Kat] I'm at the end of my wakefulness. If anyone has more questions or ideas, feel free to send me an email.

19:18:22 [Kat] Night everyone

19:18:34 svillee exits from this room

19:18:37 [nx2059] NIght

19:18:38 [JohnM] Bye, Kat. Thanks again.

19:18:50 nx2059 exits from this room

19:18:55 [JohnM] Bye, everyone.

Chat with Jason

Chat with Jason

Come chat with Jason Sorens, Free State Project Founder and Chairman of the Board this Wednesday (9/15) evening at 9:00 pm EST. This will be the first in a series of chats which will alternate between Q&A sessions with FSP leaders and activist training/brainstorming sessions. Upcoming training sessions will include:

• Starting a local group
• Effective communication techniques
• Effective meetings, and how to increase attendance
• Recruiting techniques for individuals: internet, Letters to the Editor, talk radio

Free State Chat
9:00 EST Wednesday, September 15th 2004
chat.freestateproject.org (go to "Training" chatroom)

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

20:43:27 [erickson77] hello

20:43:42 [katdillon] Hi

20:43:54 [erickson77] how are you tonight?

20:44:12 [katdillon] Great! Glad you could make it

20:44:35 [erickson77] thanks, i just got off work. 10 hours as cashier heh

20:45:08 [katdillon] Ouch!

20:46:27 [erickson77] hi scott

20:46:38 [katdillon] Hi

20:46:43 [scottfree] hey, all

20:47:31 [katdillon] hi michael

20:48:01 [erickson77] alright

20:48:11 [erickson77] to stay in this chat or to call my girlfriend before it's too late, hah

20:48:16 [erickson77] hmm..

20:48:20 [M.Edelstei] Hi Kat, Dave, and Erickson!

20:48:30 [erickson77] hey there

20:49:41 [M.Edelstei] Excuse me, folks. I came early just to grab a seat. I'll be back in a few minutes.

20:50:02 [scottfree] Im looking forward to meeting some of my possible neibors

20:50:29 [scottfree] this early thing could be fun

20:50:53 [erickson77] hopefully

20:51:00 [erickson77] i wish there was more activism

20:51:20 [scottfree] anyone here near south carolina

20:51:26 [katdillon] So are you thinking about moving to NH?

20:51:28 [erickson77] Boston here

20:51:42 [scottfree] yes

20:51:47 [scottfree] me?

20:51:48 [erickson77] i'm moving, almost certainly, if we reach 20,000

20:51:49 [katdillon] Keene, NH

20:52:08 [erickson77] i'll be out of college by then

20:52:14 [erickson77] and i can start a career in NH

20:52:14 [scottfree] I think I might

20:52:45 [katdillon] Would love to hear your ideas on activism

20:52:46 [scottfree] I gave my word that i would

20:53:17 [erickson77] activism, i.e. outreach to get more members and more popularity!

20:53:38 [katdillon] Yes

20:53:53 [erickson77] i've started with a bumper sticker ;

20:54:03 [erickson77] : heh

20:54:13 [katdillon] Scott, I'd be interested in hearing what impediments you have to moving

20:54:18 [katdillon] Great!

20:54:25 [erickson77] meant to do a wink face, it didn't work out

20:55:02 [scottfree] Well, kat. I'll miss the south.

20:55:04 [katdillon] Saturday I'll be down in Boston for the NORML thing in Boston commons

20:55:16 [erickson77] yeah, i really want to catch that too, kat

20:55:16 [scottfree] Thats the main thing

20:55:23 [katdillon] I can understand that. I moved from Texas

20:55:35 [erickson77] i have a day off work on sat for that

20:55:55 [katdillon] We'll have a table set up. Do come by

20:56:08 [scottfree] my sis is in NY though

20:56:10 [erickson77] i heard volunteers were needed?

20:56:21 [katdillon] Always

20:56:29 [erickson77] well, for the rally in general, not for FSP

20:56:39 [erickson77] willing to help

20:56:49 [katdillon] That's great, Scott. Have you ever visited NH?

20:57:11 [katdillon] Cool

20:57:28 [erickson77] NH is absolutely beautiful

20:57:48 [katdillon] Oh yes!

20:57:51 [scottfree] nah Kat im looking forward to it though

20:58:33 [katdillon] I recommend attending the annual porcupine festival next year. It was awesome this year!

20:58:40 [scottfree] maybe next time we get together

20:58:58 [scottfree] freedom fest

20:59:34 [scottfree] ill be there

20:59:44 [katdillon] Great

21:00:02 [scottfree] im saving vacation time now

21:00:11 [katdillon] It was such an experience being around so many freedom lovers

21:00:44 [scottfree] Im embarased i missed it

21:00:59 [katdillon] Hi Tom

21:01:11 [scottfree] hey, parker

21:01:32 [tparker] Howdy

21:02:12 [M.Edelstei] Hi, Tom. It's great to finally meet you in person!

21:02:16 [katdillon] Hi doug

21:02:34 [katdillon] No need to be embarrassed, scott

21:02:35 [doug] Am I at the Free State Project?

21:03:23 [katdillon] Yep, you got the right place

21:03:28 [jsorens] howdy!

21:03:36 [katdillon] Hi jaskug

21:03:39 [katdillon] Hi Jason

21:03:45 [jaskug] greets

21:03:46 [doug] Who is our Fearless Leader, tonight?

21:03:55 [M.Edelstei] Hi Jason.

21:04:10 [jsorens] i guess im supposed to be, but im pretty cowardly

21:04:15 [katdillon] Jason Sorens

21:04:15 [jsorens]

21:04:26 [jsorens] hi michael

21:04:27 [katdillon] Hi Dave

21:04:34 [cneufer] Is this the FSP chat room?

21:04:42 [katdillon] Yep

21:04:43 [jsorens] you've got the right place

21:05:06 [DaveM] working?

21:05:06 [cneufer] Is there no audio?

21:05:06 [jsorens] so lets get started; let's do this as a q&a

21:05:28 [jsorens] why dont we start in the order of people on the right side? alpha order by username

21:05:33 [M.Edelstei] Hi Dave.

21:05:35 [katdillon] Sorry, no audio at this time. We're working on it

21:05:49 [jsorens] please let fly with any & all questions relating to the free state project, & ill answer as best i can

21:05:53 [cneufer] OK

21:06:08 [jsorens] (and i apologize for this annoying format - we do plan to upgrade, possibly get audio & a better interface)

21:06:33 [cneufer] You could use PalTalk like we do for our meetings

21:06:39 [doug] I don't have working speakers, so no audio is fine by me

21:06:41 [jsorens] so the first person up is cneufer

21:07:00 [katdillon] Thanks cneufer, I'll look into ti

21:07:02 [katdillon] it

21:07:04 [DaveM] hi Kat

21:07:17 [jsorens] ive used paltalk before, it's good

21:07:25 [cneufer] Hello-I am the President of North Ohio NORML and a member of FSP--hoping to move sometime in the future

21:07:25 [katdillon]

21:07:49 [DaveM] Hi Michael

21:07:51 [M.Edelstei] Jason, an issue came up whether the FSP should be focused in NH or just outside of NH. What are your thoughts?

21:08:14 [cneufer] PalTalk is OK even if you don't have speakers because you can still just type if you want to

21:08:51 [jsorens] well, i was thinking of sticking to alphabetical order by username for questions, but we can do this the anarchic way too

21:09:03 [jsorens] so ill take dr edelstein's question

21:09:06 [doug] I'd like to hear feedback on successful recruiting techniques for individuals. In fact, that's the key reason I joined this forum, tonight.

21:09:08 [scottfree] Im wondering were is everyoneHey mike

21:09:41 [jsorens] the fsp is obviously focused primarily on recruiting liberty-oriented individuals to move to nh

21:09:53 [jsorens] for that reason most of our activities will be focused on publicity outside nh

21:09:57 [jsorens] however,

21:09:57 [cneufer] We have information (printed) at our NORML store for people to take

21:10:19 [jsorens] it helps recruiting to be able to point to favorable developments & fsp successes within nh

21:10:36 [jsorens] so our role in nh is, as i see it, primarily informational

21:11:02 [jsorens] to get the word out about the interesting & exciting things free staters who have moved are already doing in their adopted state

21:11:24 [M.Edelstei] Please elaborate on the informational.

21:11:30 [jsorens] if you have any followups michael feel free to throw them in

21:11:34 [jsorens] ok

21:11:37 [timba2112] I'll take a shot at a question. I'm the Chicago/Milwaukee Coordinator. We've had a two well attended meetings, but my skills seem to be limited in regards to getting help from local members. Any "aggressive" ideas for encouraging involvement?

21:11:56 [katdillon] doug> Tonight was mostly a Q & A session. I'm not sure how indepth he can get into your question. You're welcome to email me about it if he isn't able to answer it thoroughly. bookish_lass@yahoo.com

21:12:20 [jsorens] one example is a new website touting the benefits of nh - this will be a graphically/visually oriented webpage with photos of families who've moved, their stories in their own words, etc.

21:12:26 [erickson77] Jason, i've got a question. prompt me when you're ready to take it

21:12:41 [jsorens] its a way of putting a human touch to the fsp & giving the 'soft sell,' particularly to people who are interested especially in quality of life issues

21:12:58 [jsorens] i think it would be great to bring some of the spirit of the porcupine freedom festival to our primary recruiting tool, the web

21:13:11 [jsorens] ill take timbas question next

21:13:50 [jsorens] the first part of setting up a local group is to contact every fsp member & friend in your area. you can do this first by sending emails, and then followup phone calls

21:14:07 [M.Edelstei] Does this mean that activist groups within NH should use monikers not containing "FSP" in them?

21:14:08 [jsorens] i recommend holding meetings at fun places & coordinating some kind of fun activity to go along w/ them

21:14:30 [jsorens] the southern california group has had great success in doing outreach at homeschooling events

21:14:47 [jsorens] successful activism gives people in the group good feelings, & theyre more likely to continue to participate

21:14:51 [amanda42] how to set up local groups - lots of info here: http://www.freestateproject.org/community/localgroups/guidelines.php

21:14:56 [jsorens] at the same time, one should expect that the group will start small

21:15:16 [jsorens] the key is to have a regular line of communication, regular meetings, & gradually people will show

21:15:29 [jsorens] certainly thats been the experience of the dallas-fw group & the mid-atlantic group

21:15:33 [jsorens] thx for the link amanda!

21:16:09 [jsorens] i think erickson77 is next - go for it!

21:16:17 [timba2112] The meetings have been "fun" dinners, but I've neglected the follow up calls....so that'll be next on the list.

21:16:21 [erickson77] I believe there should be some kind of systematic involvement within the 6,000+ FSP-members already dedicated to move. what can we do to get everyone more involved and active, spreading the word and such.

21:16:21 [erickson77] amandas link sorta answered my question, but here it is

21:16:45 [erickson77] instead of just passively sitting back

21:16:45 [FTL_Ian] Question on "new website"

21:17:12 [jsorens] thats a big question! activating the activists is key to our success, & weve tried a number of things

21:17:24 [jsorens] one of them is the activist activator that kat, who is here tonight, has set up

21:17:41 [jsorens] it allows volunteers to set up their own tasks & then have people sign up for the ones they wish to participate in

21:17:49 [jsorens] then volunteers give progress reports over time

21:18:07 [jsorens] i think this great tool can be improved in some ways - it can definitely be made more prominent for fsp members

21:18:26 [erickson77] thanks Jason!

21:18:29 [jsorens] and possibly an email alert going to everyone signed up on the AA when a new task is added would help

21:18:52 [jsorens] finally, the forum has an activist center that has worked reasonably, but it is (of course) limited to those whove decided to sign onto the forum

21:19:12 [jsorens] ill take michael edelstein's followup now

21:19:51 [jsorens] i think groups doing charitable activities or political action (ie, stuff not related to the fsp's core mission of recruiting people to move) should not use fsp in their name; at the same time,...

21:19:53 [M.Edelstei] Does this mean that activist groups within NH should use monikers not containing "FSP" in them?

21:20:17 [jsorens] we have groups in nh dedicated to welcoming fsp members & prospectives and showing them around the state - that is a core part of the fsp mission

21:20:51 [jsorens] yes, thats right - activist groups shouldnt use the fsp name, in nh or elsewhere - if someone started a 'free state project party' for example, that would be a problem

21:21:33 [jsorens] i should elaborate a bit on the reason for that

21:21:58 [jsorens] the fsp is an umbrella organization - we have people committed to a common political philosophy, but not necessarily a single political or cultural strategy

21:22:36 [jsorens] so any particular activist group pursuing a particular strategy shouldnt use the fsp name, as that would imply that all free staters *have* to endorse their strategy, but the fsp should be too loose for that

21:22:56 [M.Edelstei] "Elsewhere"? In San Francisco, we call ourselves the Northern California Local FSP Group. Should we change this?

21:23:24 [jsorens] absolutely not - youre not an activist group (in the sense im using the term - a political party or charity not related to the fsp mission)

21:23:59 [jsorens] activist groups dedicated solely to welcoming fspers, fsp publicity, etc, should certainly use the fsp name!

21:24:55 [jsorens] i dont want to imply, either, that we carefully watch this or anything, or that you have to get permission before forming a group, or whatever! my view is - do first, ask questions later

21:24:58 [M.Edelstei] This clarifies some issues raised on the Message Board. Perhaps these guidelines should be posted somewhere.

21:25:21 [doug] For those of us born yesterday: Is the "FSP" as it relates to NH kinda of like the "Republic of Texas" concept?

21:25:56 [jsorens] i would say that in most ways the fsp is very different from the republic of texas. here are my reasons...

21:26:26 [jsorens] first, the republic of texas is a political action group supporting secession - the fsp doesnt take a stand on secession, and different free staters have different views on that as well as other issues

21:27:06 [jsorens] second, the republic of texas has worked outside the law, trying to set up a separate, parallel government, & certain factions have even used violence. i think these strategies are extremely dangerous,

21:27:46 [jsorens] and the fsp actually expels anyone who publicly advocates organized violence as a solution to political change (fortunately, weve only had to use that once or twice that i can recall!)

21:28:05 [FTL_Ian] Not sure of the mechanics of this chat yet.. so here are the questions: Jason- Will this "new website" also have the updated 101 reasons? And do you want to reveal the URL?

21:29:13 [jsorens] its going to be part of the current fsp website; my suggestion was to replace the current nh info page with the new page, and link the old nh info page (which is mostly dry statistics and links) at the bottom of the new page

21:29:14 [doug] So what is FSP like?

21:29:21 [jsorens] but well have to see what adam comes up with

21:29:36 [jsorens] there will be some reorganization of the navigation as well, to make it a little more 'wieldy'

21:29:48 [jsorens] glad you asked, doug!

21:29:56 [amanda42] sorry, but i need tp jump in on the 101 reasons 'cause i'm working on some edits/changes - jason, let me know when you're ready to field that question

21:30:20 [jsorens] oh, actually i dont know about the 101 reasons so you can take that one amanda

21:30:25 [jsorens] ill continue to work on dougs answer

21:31:08 [cneufer] So, just because we are also a member of an activist group, I would think we should still be welcome to FSP. Most people, whether Libertarian or a drug reform group, etc. are the ones that are intersted in FSP. I understand that we do not use our organization as an FSP (can't think of what word to

21:31:37 [jsorens] the fsp is a movement of people who agree to the basic premise that the government should at most be concerned with punishing people who violate the rights of others, and fspers are committed to moving to nh to help build a freer society around that principle

21:31:39 [cneufer] use here, but many of these organizations have the type of people that would be interested.

21:32:02 [jsorens] essentially, we go by different names: 'libertarians,' 'voluntarists,' etc., but the idea is - small government, free markets, rule of law, individual liberty, toleration

21:32:20 [jsorens] once we get to nh, we pursue whatever strategies we individually think are best to promote those goals

21:32:44 [jsorens] some of us are libertarians, some are republicans, a few are constitutionalists, and there are even a few free-market greens

21:32:46 [cneufer] OK, so can we promote FSP within our organization?

21:32:59 [katdillon] Yes!

21:33:07 [jsorens] we dont require fsp'ers to join any party, just to indicate that they plan to move to nh within the next several years

21:33:15 [amanda42] 101 reasons is an awesome document, but with several grammar/style/content edits underway to perfect it. michelle d is working on the final touches. when it is done, we plan to promote the 101 reasons BIG TIME. it will be prominent on the web, we'll have a bunch of little booklets printed, etc.

21:33:29 [jsorens] we absolutely work with activist groups to help publicize the fsp

21:33:30 [doug] Wow: So New Hampshire is more open to these goals than other states?

21:33:47 [jsorens] we attended the norml convention, the libertarian party convention, the republican liberty caucus convention, etc

21:34:12 [jsorens] we've accepted & published endorsements from political parties, politicians, writers, professors, etc - so any help you are able to offer is certainly welcomed

21:34:42 [jsorens] doug - nh is certainly one of the most pro-liberty states in the country, if not the most pro-liberty state {more...}

21:35:15 [jsorens] the way we chose it was through an election by our first 5000 signups. we voted on 10 small-population states where we could make an immense difference by moving there and getting active,

21:35:17 [erickson77] *raises hand* (mind a philosophical question, hope it's not too unrelated)

21:35:18 [jsorens] and nh won

21:35:27 [jsorens] a few reasons why nh won...

21:35:31 [cneufer] We have your literature at our NORML store--so hopefully it will help get new members (or whatever you call it).

21:36:00 [jsorens] 1) smallest state & local government sector in the country,

2) no state income or sales tax, 3) legislators are paid just $100 a year, 4) the governor endorsed the fsp

21:36:12 [jsorens] and about 97 other reasons

21:36:40 [jsorens] i encourage you to check out the 'nh info' section of our website and see whether nh might be the right place for you, doug

21:36:56 [jsorens] thats great, cneufer, thanks so much

21:37:02 [cneufer] Is it kind of the same idea as the Mormons took over Utah?

21:37:12 [jsorens] allright, erickson, shoot w/ the philosophical question, this is open ended

21:37:24 [erickson77] The FSP is obviously a noble and practical goal. But what if it's too late for liberty? As goverment controls increase, at what point, theoretically, do you believe it would be apporopriate to use force to protect our rights?

21:38:11 [jsorens] well, theoretically, proportionate force is always justified in self-defense; the important question, in my view, is when it is practical to use self-defensive force against gov't

21:38:49 [erickson77] i guess different people would answer differently

21:39:01 [jsorens] i think classic kinds of insurgency would be very difficult in the current environment, given government's overwhelming advantages over citizens in terms of firepower - my research on insurgencies in other countries {more...}

21:39:13 [jsorens] ...also indicates that rebellion usually causes more tyranny, not less.

21:39:44 [jsorens] so if we ever got to an oppressive situation here in the u.s., i think strategies of 'dropping out,' becoming invisible, emigration, etc are more viable than organized rebellion

21:39:47 [M.Edelstei] *Raises hand* (a practical question)

21:39:59 [erickson77] thanks jason

21:40:14 [jsorens] let me go w/ cneufer's question, then mike's

21:40:27 [jennybaby] FTL_Ian> freak state

21:40:49 [jsorens] i think the fsp is rather parallel to the mormon migration, as well as to the pilgrim migration from britain/holland, and a much more recent movement that happened in the 70s...

21:41:20 [jsorens] ...when leftists and hippies moved to vermont in a semi-coordinated movement to control state politics (vt was the smallest population state at that time)

21:41:27 [jennybaby] FTL_Ian> freak

21:41:52 [jsorens] thousands of lefty-types moved in, & they changed vt's political culture dramatically - from the state of calvin coolidge to the state of bernie sanders and ben & jerrys

21:42:08 [jsorens] so that indicates that this strategy would work even better in nh, which is already very sympathetic to our goals

21:42:33 [jsorens] all right, dr edelstein - shoot w/ the practical question!

21:42:47 [M.Edelstei] I'm concerned with the low recruitment numbers. Toward this end, would it make sense for the powers that be to spend more time assisting and overseeing the local groups, while sacrificing some other activities?

21:43:18 [jsorens] recruitment has been lower this year than last year, for a variety of reasons...

21:43:39 [jsorens] ...the most notable of which has been a lack of big media attention. so there are different things we're thinking about to address that...

21:44:29 [jsorens] ...i believe local groups are a critical element of the strategy. i think we should give local groups all the tools they need to run w/ their ideas, not only to create a sense of community among future neighbors, but also to generate grassroots publicity in local areas around the country...

21:45:16 [jsorens] ...i also believe we'll need a more savvy media strategy, perhaps consult w/ someone who has expertise in this area, & figure out where our $ are best spent...

21:45:40 [jsorens] ...finally, i think things will pick up after the election - we are not anywhere near the hot political story of the year, whereas we were in 2003

21:46:25 [jsorens] (there are also some other ideas bouncing around, but i cant address them all right now probably - as they come to mind i may mention them )

21:46:25 [doug] What have people successfully done, to recruit local groups?

21:47:35 [jsorens] i personally have not led a successful local group actually. right now im leading the ct group, but we just dont have enough members left here...most of the activists have gone to nh. so i cant speak fully from personal experience. however, we will have a training session for local groups soon,

21:47:59 [jsorens] & i plan to be there & learn a few things myself; we have had some successful local groups, in wash dc-baltimore, houston, dallas, southern cal, etc

21:48:18 [M.Edelstei] You cited Vermont as a success in the 70's. What were their recruitment strategies?

21:48:48 [jsorens] they went to mass rallies & concerts that drew hippie & lefty types at that time, and passed out literature

21:49:08 [jsorens] to some extent we can use that strategy as well, at places such as masscann

21:49:34 [jsorens] however, there arent too many places where you can just count on thousands of libertarians coming together - other than the internet i guess

21:49:47 [cneufer] I know I shouldn't be saying this, but wouldn't it be great if Badnarik was President! By the way, that is what we do--go to rallies & festivals and pass out literature.

21:50:06 [jsorens] one of the particular challenges we face is the fact that our 'pool' of potential recruits is small & spread across the country

21:50:12 [doug] Anyone who has recruiting ideas they'd like to share, may contact me at: DougPelter@hotmail.com.

21:50:42 [doug] All wisdom is appreciated.

21:50:44 [jsorens] as we continue to grow, we'll need to starting reaching out to people who arent politically sophisticated

21:51:14 [jsorens] cneufer - its fine to say that here! just because the fsp doesnt officially do activism doesnt mean individuals in the fsp cant do & say whatever they want here

21:51:51 [jsorens] doug - our analyses do indicate that the biggest recruitment source is word of mouth. people often get their friends, family members, roommates, or coworkers to sign on

21:52:14 [katdillon] I hope you don't really mean that the FSP 'doesn't officially do activism'

21:52:20 [cneufer] We have a few hundred members that think this is a great idea--but getting people to want to move is the problem. Not sure how we can overcome this.

21:52:45 [jsorens] sorry kat, i mean 'political activism' - electing candidates and such

21:52:49 [jsorens]

21:53:26 [jsorens] i think emphasizing quality of life might be the way to go... show people how moving to nh is not an act of self-sacrifice, but something that will enrich their own lives

21:53:56 [jsorens] so we are planning to do a mailing showing massachusetts residents how much worse they have it across the border, & how much they could improve their lives by just moving a little ways north!

21:54:11 [russellk]

21:54:24 [jsorens] heh heh

21:55:02 [erickson77] thats me, moving one state up!

21:55:13 [M.Edelstei] (Aside) Time to get back to work. Great seeing you all! Bye.

21:55:13 [jsorens] certainly, we have now spread the meme that nh is either the freest state in the country now, or about to become, without doubt, the freest state in the country

21:55:23 [jsorens] over time, nh will be the first choice for libertarians thinking of relocating

21:55:33 [jsorens] thanks michael, bye!

21:55:47 [cneufer] Many people I talk to would love to do this, but do not want to leave family members. I think this is a big problem. Of course, it is a matter of priority.

21:56:10 [jsorens] one thing that will help in this quality of life campaign is to showcase testimonials of people whove moved

21:56:18 [KarlBeisel] Good evening Kat, all.

21:56:23 [jsorens] we have a bunch of great ones already, but they will be more prominent on the new webpage

21:56:46 [jsorens] ask them to bring their families along! (i know, thats a little tongue in cheek, but it might get them thinking)

21:56:49 [drmattbarn] Has anyone considered using Robert Cialdini's ethical influence work to help recruit (Arizona State U professor, owner of 'influenceatwork.com'

21:56:58 [jsorens] evening, karl!

21:57:38 [jsorens] im not familiar with that myself - id like to hear more though - can you elaborate on it here?

21:57:44 [scottfree] Im planning to attend politics in the park at the local campus and Ive seen a sighn for my local libertarian canadate for the senate, reb southerland. My ? is do u have a big sighn I can tote to the park in honor of the FSP.

21:57:45 [doug] Give us the short version of Ethical Influence work

21:58:09 [jgmaynard] Howdy, folks. :O)

21:58:21 [drmattbarn] Sure - he's a social psychologist, with 30+ years of research he has shown to practically increase the likelihood of influence - in ethical ways

21:58:25 [russellk] hey karl hey jim

21:58:30 [cneufer] Also, as one of our member is a major Libertarian, they feel that they need to stay where they are to promote it in their state.

21:58:35 [doug] drmatt??

21:58:50 [cneufer] I meant "members"

21:58:54 [drmattbarn] He has identified 6 factors that 'trigger' influence process, and others that 'amplify'

21:58:58 [jsorens] scottfree - the only big signs we have are 'porcupine crossing' signs that are more of an inside joke than anything - however, we have all the graphics youd need to make a sign - you can find some on our website & some are in the files sections of yahoo groups, you can post something on the forum f

21:59:04 [jsorens] ..for assistance

21:59:25 [drmattbarn] I'll volunteer to send a few copies of his book "Influence: Science and Practice" to Jason and/or Amanda, if you're interested

21:59:36 [scottfree] thanx jason

21:59:46 [jgmaynard] amanda42> Hey Amanda.. how have you been? Long time, no talk.........

21:59:54 [jsorens] that would be great, thank you

21:59:55 [amanda42] drmatt... i'm interested, thanks!

21:59:55 [jgmaynard] d'oh!

22:00:06 [doug] Drmatt: Please contact me at DougPelter@hotmail.com

22:00:11 [scottfree] sorry to have jumped in but ive gotta go

22:00:29 [amanda42] hi jim

22:00:48 [jsorens] cneufer - that argument you mention from the libertarian doesnt make complete sense to me, as he could accomplish much more with hundreds or thousands of other activists working by his side...

22:01:10 [russellk] agreed

22:01:16 [jsorens] ...at the same time, i understand the emotional investment that comes w/ putting a lot of work into things happening where you live.

22:01:29 [jsorens] thx for participating scottfree!

22:01:30 [DadaOrwell] hi kat! hi all . dont kno how to pm yet

22:02:03 [katdillon] Private messages: /to name

22:02:13 [jsorens] im not sure whether this does have a pm function, that would be a needed upgrade!

22:02:16 [DadaOrwell] yes amanda

22:02:20 [jsorens] oops thx kat

22:02:22 [cneufer] Love you all but gotta go--have to get up early. Peace & Activism--Cher

22:02:41 [russellk] bye

22:02:45 [FTL_Ian] atr was saying he was going to upgrade to IRC.. that will significantly improve this chat.

22:02:46 [jsorens] thanks for stopping by cher & for all you do!

22:02:51 [amanda42] private messages... you can also click on the person's name and it will fill in the /to thingie

22:03:11 [katdillon] thanks

22:29:05 [jgmaynard] Don Gorman tells a great story about mentioning at a school board meeting he was carrying a gun, and all the other school board members drawing themselves away from the table. lol

22:30:03 [SteveA] The sign up rate slowed after last year. I know the sign up process has been made a little tougher and we don't have the state vote anymore, but are there any major reasons why there's been such a slow down. We were seeing exponential growth for a while and it's dropped back down.

22:31:53 [jsorens] those are a couple of reasons you mention, steve, but i think the main reason is that the media isnt paying attention to us b/c of the election

22:32:13 [jsorens] i think we need to think of ways to profit from the post-election 'bumming out' that is going to afflict a lot of people

22:32:32 [SteveA] Yes, that's quite possible

22:32:40 [amanda42] we need media outside of nh!

22:32:53 [jsorens] thats it in a nutshell

22:32:54 [SteveA] Would it be good to have an interim target for 10K?

22:33:17 [jgmaynard] You're right, Amanda. That's why I was trying to think of how to get more non-NH media through our local groups.....

22:33:31 [jsorens] i think so. we first have to make our first interim target of 7k by the end of the year, which we set a few months ago

22:33:52 [KarlBeisel] Are we still running ads on Google?

22:34:06 [jgmaynard] Maybe if we had a nationwide local thing, like say, a nationwide garage sale or something. That could make additional coverage as well

22:34:22 [drmattbarn] Could we have an automated email 'care package' sent to all new members automatically with suggestions for recruiting FSP members in their local areas (suggestions that have worked in the past)?

22:34:26 [jsorens] i dont know the answer to that one karl... do you, amanda?

22:34:58 [jsorens] hm, interesting idea jim...

22:35:30 [jsorens] i think new members are getting welcome letters now, w/ some of that info, not sure exactly what it contains (its a fairly new program w/in the last few months)

22:35:46 [amanda42] reality tv show -- what happens when you put free staters in a house with nh natives.

22:35:55 [katdillon] lol

22:36:02 [jgmaynard] It's prob too late in the year for a garage sale, but something similar, which anyone can do, and if it helps raise funds for local groups too, all the better!

22:36:12 [SteveA] We need to recruit recruiters

22:36:53 [katdillon] We have 6000 recruiters

22:37:01 [russellk] Amanda I love that idea

22:37:06 [amanda42] i'm serious... when we get to 10,000, we'll vote on the reality tv show contestants

22:37:15 [katdillon] drmatt, we're doing that

22:37:26 [SteveA] Sounds like a fun idea Amanda

22:37:29 [jsorens] allright guys, i gotta go! bedtime for me here. enjoyed the chat! (and mary says hi...)

22:37:31 [drmattbarn] Jim - could this be an online 'garage sale' (ala ebay?)

22:37:33 [amanda42] it will be a big debate, just like which state?

22:37:55 [DadaOrwel] we do need horse races, amanda's 10,000 thing sounds good. also resuming elections for board members

22:37:58 [SteveA] Thanks for the chat Jason. Night man

22:38:04 [jsorens] good night all!

22:38:12 [KarlBeisel] Thanks, Jason. Good night!

22:38:13 [amanda42] g'night jason

22:38:28 [jgmaynard] Hmmmmmmmmm. It may not be a garage sale per se, but something along that idea... Could be fitness contests with prizes, penny sales, anything

22:38:50 [russellk] yea anything BIG

22:38:55 [katdillon] I think it's a great idea, Jim

22:38:57 [drmattbarn] good night all

22:39:19 [DadaOrwel] how could we make that reality tv show happen?

22:40:08 [DadaOrwel] actually the reality tv show should involve non freedom lovers so the NH residents can freak them out with guns and other stuff

22:40:15 [SteveA] We should emphasize the need for Friends and not just Members. Members in N.H. do help convince others to come but Friends ouside the state can still make a difference

22:40:28 [jgmaynard] I should get going, but watch for me on TV tomorrow. I just got a ticket to the Red Sox game tomorrow, and I'm supposed to be just to one side behind home plate.

22:40:29 [SteveA] LOL @ Dada

22:40:56 [amanda42] i have no idea how it could happen, but it would be fun to do. maybe i'll ask aaron russo what he thinks

22:40:56 [SteveA] Watch for flying balls Jim

22:41:08 [katdillon] Wear an FSP tshire, Jim

22:41:14 [katdillon] tshirt

22:41:18 [russellk] I guess all of us PST people will run the discussion at the end

22:41:40 [SteveA] Hiya Herself

22:41:50 [katdillon] it's herself herself

22:42:06 [herself] Greeetings. It sez here I should try to be nice. That's going to be a stretch but I'll try!

22:42:09 [DadaOrwel] another idea for the reality show would just be having porcs coming in from NY or CA or wherever revelling in the freedoms being shown to them by the locals

22:43:18 [DadaOrwel] imagine the show participants being taken to a school carrying a gun , riding w/o helmet, etc.

22:43:26 [herself] Heya, SteveA, Karl, other folks I recognize from the boards!

22:43:44 [amanda42] lots of cool reality tv situations

22:43:49 [russellk] exactly

22:44:05 [SteveA] Jason just left a minute before you got here, Herself

22:44:11 [herself] H'mmm, guns in school? Oh, the awfulness... (Those of us old enough & who went to school in smaller towns, remember it happening lots!)

22:44:19 [DadaOrwel] hi her!

22:44:21 [doug] porcs?????????????

22:44:46 [russellk] were you thinking members moving to NH or others?

22:44:51 [katdillon] porcupines...our mascot: gentle, but you shouldn't attack them

22:44:52 [amanda42] porcupines - our mascot

22:44:54 [herself] Steve: *the* Jason? Wooooo! Sorry I missed him.

22:45:38 [herself] Porcupines: pointy! (I'm moreof a hedgehog, myself: shy and sleepy!

22:45:45 [doug] based on the Animal Med tarot deck?

22:45:46 [amanda42] ok, guys... i have to run. i'm in on FST (free state time)

22:46:04 [jgmaynard] K... ciao, Amanda! )

22:46:08 [russellk] bye

22:46:27 [SteveA] Ok, Amanda. Well grab a hidden camera and make a comedy of how people react to seeing someone openly carying

22:46:29 [SteveA] Cya

22:46:49 [amanda42] 'nite!

22:47:03 [herself] H'mmm,,,see, the thingh is, by the time you can *do* FSTV, the media will have already been running pieces about those whacky New Hampshirian people and their quaint ways.

22:47:26 [russellk] so many good angles I love it!

22:48:02 [DadaOrwel] that sounds tru her

22:48:26 [herself] The hen produces her egg *before* she cackles about it, Russel!

22:48:50 [DadaOrwel] i like doing mostly what i can do alone. external forum posts, talk radio calls, LTEs

22:49:11 [herself] Doesn't mean it is a bad idea but it may be awhile off. (But I'm middlin' pessimistic abd would be happy to be proven wrong!)

22:49:24 [scottfree] hate to have missed the party, but if the government will allow him to drive it ,I think my bro's car will make it to work tomarrow

22:49:39 [SteveA] I think you do great Dada. Yes, posting on other forums is good. I don't want to detract from the activity on the FSP forum too much though

22:49:51 [scottfree] how did it go

22:49:52 [herself] Dissipate> People are in the Training room!

22:49:56 [DadaOrwel] talk radio is where you really see the beuaty of this project in NH....it's much easier to get on air there than in my other states i've been in

22:50:31 [katdillon] personal messages /to person

22:50:56 [herself] Good -- radio can be very effective. It's an intimate medium, more so than TV and newspapers.

22:50:57 [scottfree] the beuty of this project is that the people win.

22:51:03 [erickson77] goodnight!!!

22:51:12 [jgmaynard] I know I did a 15-20 min interview on talk radio here in Keene when Campagna was in town. :O)

22:51:19 [doug] SO - - - the porc mascot: Is it from the Animal Med tarot deck?

22:51:48 [herself] Scottfree, you have repaired an Actual Car?!

22:51:49 [DadaOrwel] from keene you can find a talk radio show to call in at at any time you want between 6am and 7pm with few ded spots. you have to listen on net some tho. and i cant get free to cover half of it

22:52:01 [katdillon] Thank you all for coming. I hope you'll attend the training sessions coming up

22:52:24 [DadaOrwel] thanks steve

22:52:31 [SteveA] FTL-Ian posted some info for his talk show

22:52:33 [katdillon] I need to go, but if someone could /save the chat session and send it to me, I'd appreciate it

22:52:43 [herself] Doug, you'd have to ask a Tarot person. Me, I'm far to simple a soul for such.

22:52:56 [scottfree] her, A car is easy. lets work on our gov.

22:53:07 [russellk] Sorry to have to go but I need dinner

22:53:13 [DadaOrwel] bie kat!

22:53:19 [doug] OK, you insider/old timers: Where'd U get your mascot from?

22:53:35 [russellk] goodnight all

22:53:40 [katdillon] send to bookish_lass@yahoo.com Thanks!

22:53:59 [scottfree] good night, russ

22:54:01 [SteveA] Goodnight Russel

22:54:16 [herself] Scott: can't, I don't have any large-cal longarms.... Seriously, the nature of my work is such that I'll not be movong to NH any time soon; but I vote up a storm here in the hinterlands.

22:54:18 [jgmaynard] Ciao, everyone! :O)

22:54:39 [herself] Seeya, Russ!

22:54:40 [scottfree] kat are you from around the south

22:54:45 [DadaOrwel] ya james mitchell was first one i called. i thought he was conservative tho...but i got on right away

22:54:50 [SteveA] Bye Jim

22:55:37 [SteveA] So we have a 7K target by the end of this year?

22:55:40 [DadaOrwel] ok i gtg too....see yall!

22:55:49 [herself] Doug, the actual notion is as previously stated: a porcupine is a critter that'll leave you alone if you leave it alone -- but mess with it and it'll getcha!

22:56:00 [SteveA] Hasta, Dada

Building Consensus - Chat

Communication Strategies for Building Consensus - Chat

This Wednesday evening Oct. 20, Dr. Michael Edelstein (see bio below) will be leading a discussion on Communication Strategies for Building Consensus. The workshop will be held at chat.freestateproject.org at 9pm ET. Hope to see you there!

Dr. Michael R. Edelstein is in private practice in San Francisco and is the co-author, with Dr. David Ramsay Steele, of Three Minute Therapy: Change Your Thinking, Change Your Life, a self-help book for overcoming common emotional and behavioral problems. The book has been chosen as a selection by the Book-of-the-Month Club and by the Behavioral Sciences Book Club, and also as a featured alternate selection.by Laissez-Faire Books. Michael was awarded "Author of the Year" for the book by the National Association of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapists.

Michael lectures nationally and internationally, appears on radio and television, and is published in psychological journals. He is the creator of a five-step audiotape weight-management program, and has produced tapes used for training psychotherapists. He writes the advice column, "Ask Dr.Mike," which appears in the San Francisco Intelligencer.

He is a Training Supervisor and Fellow of the Albert Ellis Institute and holds a diploma in Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy. He is Past President of the Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapy. He frequently speaks to libertarian groups, having given presentations at Laissez Faire Books, ISIL, the Separation of School & State Alliance, Eris, Free Exchange, and the California LP annual conventions. His topic at LPCCon2004 was "Overcoming Emotional Blocks to Success as a Libertarian."

He is currently writing two books, The Revolution In Psychotherapy (Open Court Publishing) and Three Minute Therapy for Stage Fright (See Sharp Press).

Here is Dr. Edelstein's website.

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

21:03:41 [katdillon] Tonight, Dr. Michael Edelstein has generously consented to give a talk on Communication Technques for Building Consenses

21:04:31 [katdillon] I'll turn it over to Michael

21:04:50 [MiclEdlstn] Welcome, everyone!

21:04:58 [MiclEdlstn] First, I'd like to review 18 useful communication principles.

21:05:25 [MiclEdlstn] ...one at a time, so we can discuss each.

21:05:42 [MiclEdlstn] They're particularly appropriate...

21:06:17 [MiclEdlstn] for avoiding and diffusing contentious discussions in FSP chats...

21:06:33 [MiclEdlstn] and on the Message Board....

21:07:02 [MiclEdlstn] and for no extra charge, they'll help you improve your marriage!

21:07:20 [MiclEdlstn] Then, we'll discuss...

21:07:41 [MiclEdlstn] specific communication problems...

21:08:00 [MiclEdlstn] you've faced you wish suggestions on.

21:08:19 [MiclEdlstn] As an experiment...

21:08:45 [MiclEdlstn] I'd like to structure the discussion...

21:09:00 [MiclEdlstn] more like a face-to-face talk...

21:09:10 [MiclEdlstn] and see how this works...

21:09:26 [MiclEdlstn] Should you have a question or comment...

21:09:39 [MiclEdlstn] please raise your hand, like this...

21:09:58 [MiclEdlstn] *Raises hand*...

21:10:11 [MiclEdlstn] or *rh*...

21:10:22 [MiclEdlstn] or simply ^

21:10:37 [MiclEdlstn] (that a hand waving in the air)

21:10:52 [MiclEdlstn] I'll call on you. Thanks.

21:11:15 [MiclEdlstn] Any q's before we start with the first principle?

21:11:50 [MiclEdlstn] Kat, would you display #1, please?

21:12:07 [katdillon] hopefully this works right...

21:12:46 [katdillon] 1. Assume responsibility for your role in a dialogue. Do what _you_ can to improve the process. (As good as it may feel for the moment, resentfully criticizing others for communication breakdowns doesn't help and often accelerates a downward spiral.)

21:12:51 [MiclEdlstn] :-)

21:12:59 [katdillon] (sorry, next one's wont be so slow)

21:13:44 [MiclEdlstn] People tend to assume less power than they have in creating good communication.

21:14:03 [MiclEdlstn] However, if you lay the groundwork...

21:14:11 [MiclEdlstn] as we'll be discussing...

21:14:44 [MiclEdlstn] you will have much power in making communication go well, even with the most difficult customers.

21:15:10 [MiclEdlstn] Qs?

21:15:37 [MiclEdlstn] #2 please, Kat.

21:16:08 [katdillon] 2. Bring up and then address one issue at a time.

21:16:24 [MiclEdlstn] When an interaction gets heated...

21:16:48 [MiclEdlstn] people sometimes recite a history of grievances against the other person.

21:17:06 [MiclEdlstn] It's best to address one issue at a time.

21:17:09 [slye15] ^

21:17:25 [MiclEdlstn] Yes, slye

21:17:35 [slye15] any suggestions for how to remember all the points that they mention while only discussing one at a time?

21:17:44 [MiclEdlstn] Yes,

21:17:54 [MiclEdlstn] suggest starting with one...

21:18:14 [MiclEdlstn] this way the onus is not on you to remember the others.

21:18:32 [slye15] kind of slow them down and ask they stop once they have goten to point one

21:18:44 [MiclEdlstn] When you both agree the first issue had been adaquately covered...

21:18:53 [MiclEdlstn] then ask for the second.

21:19:03 [MiclEdlstn] Exactly.

21:19:20 [MiclEdlstn] Slowing things down, incidentally...

21:19:20 [slye15] alright

21:19:36 [MiclEdlstn] tends to diffuse attack and counterattack.

21:20:12 [MiclEdlstn] Ok, #3.

21:20:27 [katdillon] 3. Remain positive and give the other person the benefit of the doubt. For example, if you suspect they may be using a sarcastic tone, assume the best.

21:20:52 [MiclEdlstn] Especially in internet exchanges...

21:21:09 [MiclEdlstn] it's easy to read a negative tone into a communication.

21:21:32 [MiclEdlstn] Try to be aware of this proclivity...

21:21:48 [MiclEdlstn] and bend over backwards to do the opposite.

21:22:16 [MiclEdlstn] Even if it is meant negatively...

21:22:33 [MiclEdlstn] if you continue in a positive vein...

21:22:52 [MiclEdlstn] your correspondant will tend to drop the negativity.

21:23:26 [MiclEdlstn] Let's go to #4, Kat.

21:23:49 [katdillon] 4. Respond only to the constructive content of a message. Ignore, when possible, sarcasm, innuendo, name-calling, etc. (It's usually possible). This helps avoid escalation.

21:24:10 [MiclEdlstn] Sometimes this involves being a detective.

21:24:44 [MiclEdlstn] Try to discern the useful content...

21:25:13 [MiclEdlstn] and ignore what's useless, sarcastic, irrelevant, etc.

21:25:45 [MiclEdlstn] Ok, on to #5.

21:26:00 [katdillon] 5. Avoid accusations, especially overgeneralized ones, such as: "You never...", You always...", "Why can't you...?", "I can't believe you said that," etc.

21:26:24 [MiclEdlstn] Even if you're feeling disgusted with what you hear...

21:26:42 [MiclEdlstn] you don't have to show it by attacking the other person.

21:26:50 [MiclEdlstn] To avoid this...

21:27:06 [MiclEdlstn] watch your language...

21:27:32 [MiclEdlstn] Again, speak to the specific issue...

21:27:44 [MiclEdlstn] rather than attacking the other's character.

21:28:21 [MiclEdlstn] BTW, these suggestions may sound deceptively simple.

21:28:30 [katdillon] ^

21:28:43 [MiclEdlstn] However, they're often not so easy to implement. Kat.

21:29:27 [MiclEdlstn] Were you just stretching?

21:29:28 [katdillon] Say you're in a disagreement with someone. How do you avoid the temptation to send a really good zinger to make your point? Any suggestions?

21:29:48 [MiclEdlstn] Yes.

21:30:05 [MiclEdlstn] Remind yourself of your ultimate goal.

21:30:06 [katdillon] Sometimes I find it irristable, especially if it's a funny one

21:30:11 [MiclEdlstn] To be understood...

21:30:19 [MiclEdlstn] or to reach an agreement.

21:30:35 [MiclEdlstn] Zingers tend to sabotage these goals...

21:30:48 [MiclEdlstn] so in the long-run you lose out.

21:31:10 [MiclEdlstn] Focus on your basic goal...

21:31:27 [MiclEdlstn] and sacrifice the fleeting pleasure the zinger may give you.

21:31:38 [katdillon] hard to do!

21:31:52 [JohnM] But will the other person think it's funny. That would be important, I'd think.

21:31:53 [MiclEdlstn] It's a pyrhic victory (sp?)

21:32:25 [MiclEdlstn] Yes, it's hard to do. The more you practice the better you get at it.

21:32:48 [MiclEdlstn] JohnM...I didn't see your hand, yet I suspect you have a question.

21:33:04 [katdillon] as my ole dad always says, I can resist anything but temptation

21:33:22 [JohnM] No question. Just commenting on Kat's point.

21:33:26 [MiclEdlstn] Humor is difficult to execute in this format....

21:33:37 [MiclEdlstn] it means knowing your audience...

21:33:54 [MiclEdlstn] You can also send out a test balloon...

21:34:04 [MiclEdlstn] Try one attempt at humor...

21:34:25 [MiclEdlstn] if your correspondant takes it poorly, that tells you something.

21:34:57 [MiclEdlstn] JohnM, does that answer your q?

21:35:05 FTL_Ian enters this room

21:35:41 [FTL_Ian] hallo everybody

21:36:02 [MiclEdlstn] Hi FTL. Welcome.

21:36:05 [katdillon] Hello Ian

21:36:39 [MiclEdlstn] Let's go on to #6.

21:36:51 [katdillon] 6. Say "Please," "Thank you," "I apologize," "Great idea!," etc., generously. These words are the lubricants of communication-- especially "I apologize." ;-)

21:37:15 [MiclEdlstn] This is always good to practice with an IRS agent.

21:37:42 [katdillon]

21:38:04 [MiclEdlstn] These words are easy to remember and you can't use them too often.

21:38:37 [MiclEdlstn] # 7, please.

21:38:48 [katdillon] 7. Before criticizing a position, consider feeding it back to the person advancing it, to confirm you've understood it.

21:39:00 [MiclEdlstn] Thank you.

21:39:34 [MiclEdlstn] Especially when communication seems to be frustrating with someone...

21:39:37 [katdillon] Great idea!

21:40:01 [MiclEdlstn] this helps more to break thru some of the morass.

21:40:05 [FTL_Ian] #7 is very good... it shows the person you are listening, as well

21:41:12 [MiclEdlstn] To demonstrate, would someone like to feed back #7, as you understand it?

21:41:41 [katdillon] restate the person's position by telling it back to them in your own words

21:41:51 [slye15] So what your saying is I should rephase the question to them in my own words and see if they agree?

21:41:53 [MiclEdlstn] Exactly!

21:42:27 [MiclEdlstn] And then ask: "is that what you're saying?"

21:43:12 [MiclEdlstn] Don't just say: "I understand."

21:43:13 [DadaOrwell] hey ian!

21:43:27 [MiclEdlstn] Then you think you understand...

21:43:38 [MiclEdlstn] he thinks you understand..

21:43:52 [MiclEdlstn] but you may both misunderstand.

21:43:56 [FTL_Ian] DadaOrwell> hello

21:44:35 [MiclEdlstn] Next, please, Kat.

21:44:42 [katdillon] 8. Do not label the individual you're speaking with, e.g., "You're a troll," "You're intolerant," " ...disrespectful," "...oblivious," "...obnoxious," etc. This rarely helps and often makes matters worse. Similarly, calling their arguments stupid, destructive, "I can't believe you said that," etc.

21:44:44 [MiclEdlstn] #8.

21:45:19 [MiclEdlstn] This does little to advance the discussion.

21:45:46 [MiclEdlstn] If your looking for a fight, tho, it's great stuff.

21:46:21 [MiclEdlstn] Ok, #9.

21:47:10 [katdillon]>[russellk] had to close yahoo

21:47:13 [katdillon] 9. Keep in mind that "agreeing to disagree" is usually a fine option when stuck in a communication rut. There's often no

21:47:26 [katdillon] right or wrong in our disagreements. Differing opinions may rest on different styles, proclivities, or comfort levels.

21:47:41 [MiclEdlstn] Well said!

21:48:07 [katdillon] Thanks!

21:48:11 [MiclEdlstn] I've seen on many occasions, arguing about the best strategy for freedom...

21:48:29 [MiclEdlstn] when only time will tell what works and what doesn't.

21:48:41 [MiclEdlstn] So if you're a gradualist...

21:48:49 [MiclEdlstn] use gradualist strategies.

21:48:58 [MiclEdlstn] And if you're an abolitionist...

21:49:11 [MiclEdlstn] use abolitionist strategies.

21:49:24 [MiclEdlstn] There's no reason you have to convince the other...

21:49:34 [DadaOrwell] kats computer crashed

21:49:39 [MiclEdlstn] you're 101% right..

21:49:49 [DadaOrwell] she'll be back in about 4 min

21:49:50 [MiclEdlstn] and he's 101% wrong.

21:50:08 [MiclEdlstn] Thanks, Dada.

21:50:49 [MiclEdlstn] Any qs about "agreeing to disagree?"

21:51:19 [MiclEdlstn] #10: If you wish someone to communicate more constructively....

21:51:39 [MiclEdlstn] offer a specific suggestion and begin i twith...

21:51:52 [MiclEdlstn] "I prefer..." For example...

21:52:15 [MiclEdlstn] "I prefer you not call me intolerant. Rather,

21:52:41 [MiclEdlstn] please cite specifically what I said you disagree with."

21:52:54 [MiclEdlstn] (Alternatively, trying to prove...

21:53:01 [MiclEdlstn] you're not intolerant...

21:53:24 [MiclEdlstn] or even launcing a counterattack, rarely is constructive.)

21:53:47 [slye15] ^

21:53:51 [katdillon] (I'm back)

21:54:10 [slye15] Might that make them think your totally dismissing their point without considering it

21:54:12 [MiclEdlstn] Great! We're up to #11.

21:55:03 [katdillon] 11. If you feel the process is breaking down, discuss this with the other person. Collaboratively work to improve it by focusing on future behavioral change, rather than by assigning blame for past communication difficulties.

21:55:20 [MiclEdlstn] The past is dead and gone and can't be resurrected. So focus on future change.

21:55:56 [MiclEdlstn] Okay, #12.

21:56:12 [katdillon] 12. State negative feelings in a positive way by stating the other's best self, e.g., "I know you're a tolerant person," or "You often have excellent ideas." Then let them know you feel they're not living up to their usual high standard.

21:56:43 [MiclEdlstn] People love praise and tend to dislike criticism.

21:57:10 [MiclEdlstn] Here you sneakily use praise to criticize. :-)

21:57:37 [MiclEdlstn] Let's go to #13.

21:57:57 [katdillon] 13. If you're communicating by computer, consider moving to the telephone should communication get stalled.

21:58:17 [MiclEdlstn] This would take much of the guesswork out of reading the other person's tone of voice.

21:58:42 [MiclEdlstn] #14, please.

21:58:55 [katdillon] 14. Give positive feedback, praise, appreciation, "atta boys" wherever possible.

21:59:12 [katdillon] You're doing a great job, btw, Michael

21:59:20 [MiclEdlstn] Can't emphasize this enough!

21:59:36 [MiclEdlstn] Thanks, Kat. And, of course, so are you.

21:59:54 [MiclEdlstn] You're a fast learner, BTW.

22:00:05 [MiclEdlstn] Let's try #15.

22:00:24 [katdillon] 15. Preface constructive criticism with positive feedback.

22:00:49 [MiclEdlstn] With a little thought, you usually can think of something positive to say.

22:01:11 [MiclEdlstn] For example, it's great you're with the FSP. We need you!

22:01:25 [MiclEdlstn] 16, Kat.

22:01:38 [katdillon] 16. If disengaging is a viable option with someone who seems generally angry and negativistic, politely end the dialogue. Alternatively, consider suggesting ending it for continuation at a future date, when one (or both of you) will have had a chance to collect your thoughts and calm down.

22:02:15 [MiclEdlstn] There's no reason you must continue a destructive interaction.

22:02:27 [MiclEdlstn] It's useful to recognize when to cut and run.

22:02:55 [MiclEdlstn] Two more left. #17?

22:03:09 [katdillon] 17. Keep in mind that everyone is a free agent with free will, consequently you can't force anyone to understand or agree with you, no matter how self-evident your view seems to you.

22:03:40 [MiclEdlstn] It's easy to think you can bully someone into your position...

22:03:48 [MiclEdlstn] with powerful rhetoric...

22:03:59 [MiclEdlstn] or cutting sarcasm.

22:04:12 [MiclEdlstn] Sadly, this usually doesn't work.

22:04:29 [MiclEdlstn] Often the more you push, the more you get pushed back.

22:04:52 [MiclEdlstn] It's an art to gracefully accept disagreement.

22:05:22 [MiclEdlstn] Ok, our last communication principle:

22:05:33 [katdillon] 18. Remind others--and yourself--of our common goal: to build a free society. Consequently, collaboration, rather than one-upmanship, is essential.

22:06:03 [MiclEdlstn] Ok, what communication problems have you had...

22:06:22 [MiclEdlstn] or have you witnessed, that you wish to discuss or ask about?

22:06:38 [MiclEdlstn] Remember to 6.

22:06:53 [MiclEdlstn] That's ^, I meant to say.

22:07:43 [slye15] ^

22:07:49 [MiclEdlstn] Slye

22:08:36 [slye15] Great suggstions, so far. How do you deal with a person that will continuely try to steer the conversation to details when the main point they can't defend?

22:09:16 [MiclEdlstn] You can try: "I'd love to discuss those other points later...

22:09:33 [MiclEdlstn] but first let's reach agreement on this one.

22:09:46 [MiclEdlstn] Would that be ok with you?"

22:10:13 [MiclEdlstn] (In proposing something like this, try to get the other's..

22:10:18 [slye15] makes sense

22:10:27 [MiclEdlstn] explicit agreement by asking for it.)

22:10:29 [slye15] oen thing at a time is what I need to learn

22:10:50 [MiclEdlstn] Simple, but not easy.

22:11:31 [katdillon] ^

22:11:31 [MiclEdlstn] If you find yourself in the midst of a communication spiral...

22:11:54 [MiclEdlstn] it's never to late to suggest going back to square one...

22:12:11 [MiclEdlstn] and starting again with one issue this time.

22:12:33 [MiclEdlstn] Would anyone like to add techniques you've found helpful?

22:13:44 [MiclEdlstn] Any final questions, comments, or discussion?

22:13:53 [katdillon] yes

22:13:59 [FTL_Ian] Where did the list come from?

22:14:00 [MiclEdlstn] Ok, Kat.

22:14:13 [slye15] Thanks, excellent suggestions/guide lines

22:14:29 [katdillon] Let's say you've got a decision to be made, and you and the other party need to come to an agreement

22:14:31 [MiclEdlstn] You're welcome.

22:14:39 [MiclEdlstn] Kat, did you have a q?

22:14:47 [katdillon] but find yourselves totally deadlocked on opposite sides of the fence

22:14:58 [katdillon] Any suggestions for breaking the deadlock?

22:15:06 [MiclEdlstn] There are many ways...

22:15:33 [katdillon] when agree to disagree isn't really an option

22:15:33 [MiclEdlstn] one is to agree on a third party to referee or arbitrate.

22:15:51 [MiclEdlstn] Another is to take turns:

22:16:17 [MiclEdlstn] "This time we go with your idea, if next time I have priority."

22:16:53 [MiclEdlstn] A third is bribery: "I'll give you $100 to agree."

22:17:02 [katdillon] lol

22:17:04 [slye15] ha

22:17:05 [MiclEdlstn] Hey, we're capitalists, right?

22:17:26 [katdillon] Certainly!

22:17:44 [MiclEdlstn] You can also find a third idea that neither of you are thrilled about...

22:17:54 [MiclEdlstn] but are willing to embrace as a compromise.

22:18:10 [katdillon] (Ian, I believe Michael wrote up this list)

22:18:51 [MiclEdlstn] It came from my 30 years experience working with couples and businesses in negotiating consensus.

22:19:16 [katdillon] Good ideas, thanks Michael

22:19:29 [MiclEdlstn] Working thru problems in my own marriage also gave me practice.

22:19:34 [PhilD] Yes, thank you

22:20:08 [MiclEdlstn] For this I thank my wife, Janice, who refuses to take my back talk.

22:20:26 [katdillon]

22:20:39 [JohnM] LOL

22:20:49 [MiclEdlstn] You're welcome, Phil, Kat.

22:21:23 [MiclEdlstn] If you have qs that come up in the future--real incidents--feel free to ask me.

22:21:37 [MiclEdlstn] I'm always happy to help Free Staters.

22:21:53 [katdillon] That's great! Thanks

22:22:17 [JohnM] Yes, thank you, Michael. Those are all good suggestions.

22:22:26 [MiclEdlstn] Also, if you wish to join Kat and me in forming a group that helps put out flaming wars on the Message Board...

22:22:39 [katdillon] how can people reach you if they have questions, Michael>

22:22:54 [MiclEdlstn] please send me an email: DrEdelstein@ThreeMinuteTherapy.com

22:23:05 [MiclEdlstn] or 415-673-2848,

22:23:28 [MiclEdlstn] I believe Kat will be posting...

22:23:46 [MiclEdlstn] all 18 principles somewhere on the website.

22:23:53 [MiclEdlstn] Is that right?

22:24:27 [katdillon] Yes, several places if I can

22:24:30 [slye15] I also saved them if anyone wants a quick run down of them

22:24:42 [katdillon] on the forum and freestateproject.org/training

22:24:54 [MiclEdlstn] Great!

22:25:06 [PhilD] That should help us have more and less

22:25:06 [katdillon] along with the transcript of tonight's chat

22:25:34 [MiclEdlstn] Thank you Kat for coordinating these chats. You provided a great service.

22:26:00 [katdillon] Oh, it's been my pleasure. You're quite welcome

22:26:31 [MiclEdlstn] Phil, I'll bet posting smiley faces is a great strategy to assist good communication.

22:27:15 [MiclEdlstn] Good night, everybody. Thanks for attending and being such a good audience.

22:27:38 [katdillon] Thank you again, Michael for taking the time to do this.

22:27:58 [JohnM] Good evening, everyone. Thanks, Michael. Thanks, Kat.

22:27:59 [PatK] Thank you

22:28:07 [DadaOrwell] nite all!

22:28:13 JohnM exits from this room

22:28:22 [PhilD] Thanks Michael and Kat - May flights of angels...and all that

22:29:36 [katdillon] Good night all! Hope to see you next week for Phil's Speaker's workshop

Note: The above strategies are also conveniently listed at Communication Strategies For Building Consensus.

Q&A with FSP early movers

Q & A with FSP early movers – 01/13/05

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

17:05:32 [RussellK] I see we have had some people come and go already

17:07:32 [katdillon] Howdy

17:07:38 [erich] Hi

17:07:53 [katdillon] how goes?

17:07:55 [erich] I see things are going a little slow here in the beginning.

17:07:59 [erich] well

17:08:26 [katdillon] We were a little late...watching The Manchurian Candidate

17:08:32 [RussellK] it always does

17:08:37 [erich] Hah!

17:08:53 [erich] I want to see that one, but seem to onle see about 2 new films a year.

17:08:56 [RussellK] we haven't gotten people use to the idea yet of our NH chats

17:09:14 [RussellK] we were watching the old version

17:09:37 [erich] Well, do you see most of the Granite Staters in person fairly often?

17:09:49 [katdillon] fairly often

17:10:02 [katdillon] we met last night, seeing people all weekend

17:10:10 [erich] Oh, well. I am looking forward to seeing how the new one measures up.

17:10:46 [erich] That is awesome. I cannot wait to get up there in March.

17:10:52 [katdillon] Haven't seen the new one yet

17:10:54 [erich] Especially to see people.

17:11:03 [RussellK] where are you moving to?

17:11:03 [katdillon] Cool

17:11:20 [erich] I went to the Liberty Dinner in June, as you may remember, Kat,

17:11:28 [erich] but did not really mingle that much.

17:11:33 [katdillon] Yep

17:11:46 [RussellK] so is this bluelu?

17:11:46 [erich] Oh, I will be up for the week

17:11:49 [erich] before town elections

17:11:58 [erich] just to help and to scope out property.

17:12:02 [katdillon] We'll have a huge TX contingent!

17:12:09 [RussellK] the guy that roped me into his schemes on the forum?

17:12:17 [erich] My current favorite town is Greenfield

17:12:26 [erich] just the other side of Peterborough from Keene

17:12:38 [erich] Shhhhh!

17:12:55 [erich] I did not think it was that schemy

17:13:06 [erich] Maybe someone has been posing as me.

17:13:10 [RussellK] I was too easy

17:13:24 [katdillon] I'll say

17:13:34 [erich] LOL

17:13:44 [erich] Have you ever heard about Don Gorman's talk?

17:13:46 [katdillon]

17:13:55 [erich] About any good that may have come out of it?

17:13:58 [katdillon] I didn't hear what happend, no

17:14:17 [katdillon] Did hear he was thinking of doing another one on the seacoast soon

17:14:23 [erich] K

17:14:45 [erich] I may have to go to help my wife do some A/V editing on her computer.

17:14:54 [erich] So, if I just stop responding. Please forgive

17:14:58 [katdillon] okie dokie

17:15:05 [katdillon] no problem

17:16:37 [RussellK] so Greenfield huh?

17:16:55 [erich] Dave Mincin seems to be getting a thing or two done.

17:17:03 [erich] speaking of the Seacoast

17:17:08 [katdillon] I went out to Greenfield to dance one night

17:17:10 [erich] Greeenfield. Yeah.

17:17:15 [katdillon] Dave's great

17:17:17 [erich] It just looked beautiful.

17:17:25 [katdillon] they have a contra dance there

17:17:28 [erich] Even the village center is very rural.

17:17:32 [katdillon] *nods*

17:17:36 [erich] Contras????

17:17:38 [RussellK] Dave Mincin is our archrival for incoming porcs

17:17:46 [erich] Oh, not like in El Salv...

17:17:50 [katdillon] Not terribly far from Peterborough

17:17:55 [katdillon] no

17:17:55 [erich] Oh wait, we figured thatone out.

17:18:14 [katdillon] kinda like old fashioned sqare dancing, but in a line

17:18:24 [erich] Well, I may sleep a night on his floor. I am trying to get an interview with a Portsmouth outfit.

17:18:49 [katdillon] Many people have spent the night on Dave's floor and lived to tell the tale

17:18:55 [erich] I looked it up, and found where they do it around here once a month, but they finish so late....

17:19:04 [erich] We pumpkinize early.

17:19:14 [katdillon] me too

17:19:18 [erich] I hear the smoke is thinner down there.

17:19:24 [erich] ...on Dave's floor.

17:19:31 [katdillon] lol

17:19:40 [erich] Just a joke. I used to smoke, and it really does not bother me.

17:20:01 [katdillon] Did you meet Dave?

17:20:25 [erich] We visited Dover and Portsmouth in June, and really liked it, but The Monadnock

17:20:35 [erich] countryside really beconed us.

17:20:42 [erich] I did NOT meet dave.

17:20:57 [erich] But, he offered good advice on where to stay and eat before we got there.

17:21:10 [katdillon] cool

17:21:21 [katdillon] he's a helpful sort

17:21:23 [erich] I asked the favor of a free space on his floor a few weeks ago, when I finalized plans to come in March.

17:21:44 [erich] At the time, I thought that all municipal elections were in March,

17:21:53 [katdillon] I think he likes the company

17:21:58 [erich] but that does not seem to be the case. It seems that the "Cities" are in Jan.

17:22:10 [erich] Like Keene, right????

17:22:14 [katdillon] We just found out that next march in keene will be the school board election

17:22:30 [katdillon] they were november

17:22:49 [erich] Oh, wow! I guess, each city chooses when city elections will be.

17:22:52 [erich] Back in minute.

17:22:55 [katdillon] A guy from the local school board came to our meeting last night

17:29:47 [RussellK] PatK to the rescue

17:30:15 [E_Clay10] hello

17:30:24 [RussellK] hello

17:30:25 [PatK] huh?

17:30:36 [RussellK] are you guys a little early for the FSP chat?

17:30:42 [PatK] hi all

17:30:50 [RussellK] hello

17:30:53 [PatK] yep

17:30:53 [erich] Do you know of any good candidates? I am still in search of work to do while I am in NH Mar. 1-8.

17:31:11 [E_Clay10] I would like to know if there are any Objectivists involved with FSP?

17:31:30 [RussellK] lots

17:31:42 [RussellK] and some that hate objectivits

17:31:46 [erich] Good to see you, Clay. I noticed your posts from Western MI today.

17:31:53 [RussellK] and some that don't know what that word means

17:32:13 [E_Clay10] thanx

17:32:15 [erich] I became a Rand fan at age 14.

17:32:30 [erich] Introduced by an unwitting public school English teacher.

17:32:30 [E_Clay10] actually southeastern MI

17:32:40 [E_Clay10] City of Westland

17:32:42 [erich] Yikes. My memory may be bad.

17:32:51 [erich] AHHHHH! I see.

17:33:04 [erich] "Wasteland" Yes.

17:33:11 [E_Clay10] near Detroit

17:33:20 [E_Clay10] yep

17:33:22 [PatK] I guess I would be a very small o objectivst

17:34:10 [E_Clay10] that's pronounced nihilist

17:34:23 [RussellK]

17:34:27 [erich] I have several friens near Detroit, but alas no Objectivists, nor libertarians.

17:34:36 [erich] LOL

17:34:42 [PatK] and there you go

17:34:49 [E_Clay10] me too

17:35:16 [E_Clay10] wish there was more

17:35:27 [erich] I can lay my hands on the Objectivists in central Texas, but

17:35:35 [erich] for the NH contingent....

17:35:46 [E_Clay10] here in the People's state of MI

17:36:22 [erich] I will have to defer. I am really stretching my legitimacy in any NH group.

17:37:01 [E_Clay10] What do you mean?

17:37:19 [katdillon] hi people

17:37:29 [RussellK] there is an objectivist group in concord nh headed by a FSP guy

17:37:54 [katdillon] I know a bunch of objectivist in nashua

17:38:00 [katdillon] s

17:38:20 [erich] If you are asking about me. I think that the best use of my time is getting involved in NH activity, and getting there a couple times a year, which I will be doing for a week just before town elections in March.

17:38:21 [E_Clay10] I read something like that a year ago then could never find it again.

17:38:24 [katdillon] Amanda's an objectivist...she's just down by Boston

17:38:47 [erich] Hopefully moving this summer, but that is contingent on a job, or a wealthy relative dying.

17:38:49 [katdillon] hello

17:38:49 [E_Clay10] ok

17:38:56 [E_Clay10] hello

17:39:05 [katdillon] What do you do, erich?

17:39:13 [PatK] those little s's just wont stay were you wan't them will they kat

17:39:25 [erich] Software engineer.

17:39:28 [katdillon] you could ask Mike Lorrey....he talks to all those -o people

17:39:32 [RussellK] man we hate that "we made the move" story that includes the rich relative died story

17:39:39 [katdillon] I must be slurring them

17:39:51 [pliny] Would someone tell me what the job market is like for teachers? ( I would prefer to work in a private or parochial school)

17:39:51 [PatK]

17:39:57 [erich] You are just WAY too uptight, Russ

17:40:05 [katdillon] haha

17:40:10 [E_Clay10] Mike Lorrey?

17:40:25 [katdillon] that's one word I've never associated with Russell!

17:40:26 [erich] An objectivist?

17:40:26 [RussellK] I don't know about teacher jobs

17:40:33 [katdillon] I think so

17:40:38 [katdillon] want his email?

17:40:48 [RussellK] there seems to be a high percentage of private schools in our area of Keene

17:40:50 [erich] I only know about teachers of the deaf jobs.

17:40:53 [E_Clay10] yes please

17:41:20 [RussellK] I don't know about the rest

17:41:27 [katdillon] ok just a sec (sec sec, not sex...man, typos these days)

17:41:57 [erich] Do you know of a web presence for the Nashua objectivists? I would think it would be a nexus, since it is the easiest access from Boston.

17:42:19 [katdillon] mlorrey@yahoo.com

17:42:29 [katdillon] mike lorrey knows them

17:42:29 [erich] That is actually where the Boston-area Linux Users group met, last I checked.

17:42:30 [E_Clay10] thanx

17:42:40 [katdillon] I went to a party with them, I'm sorry to say

17:43:25 [katdillon] there is a big linux users group in nashua

17:43:36 [RussellK] I wish we had a linux user group in Keene

17:43:51 [katdillon] start one

17:43:53 [RussellK] hello wildboar

17:43:57 [wildboar] Nice to login and see people online.

17:44:01 [katdillon]

17:44:08 [RussellK] to busy fighting the government

17:44:19 [katdillon] hi boar

17:44:24 [PatK] Keene seems to be the black hole of NH you visit and never leave

17:44:30 [RussellK] the official FSP chat starts at 9pm

17:44:31 [E_Clay10] is everyone here already in NH?

17:44:42 [RussellK] we like to chat for the hour before

17:44:43 [katdillon] yes, come to the dark side

17:44:46 [RussellK] I am

17:44:55 [katdillon] russell and I are in NH

17:45:07 [RussellK] you have to visit Keene last because you will never leave

17:45:11 [E_Clay10] one day

17:45:14 [PatK] I stayed ib Keene for a few days after theporcfest and loved it

17:45:20 [PatK] in even

17:45:25 [katdillon] but you escaped

17:45:32 [RussellK] yes PatK you must move here

17:45:36 [RussellK] it is your destiny

17:45:36 [katdillon] it's supposed to be like Hotel California

17:45:48 [PatK] YEA but not happy about it

17:45:54 [RussellK] lets see patk is not in NH

17:46:05 [RussellK] erich is not here yet

17:46:11 [katdillon] it calls you, just like Bali hai

17:46:34 [katdillon] can you hear it calling you?

17:46:45 [wildboar] I just visited NH for the first time over New Years holiday just to check things out. Drove top to bottom. Liked Jackson.

17:46:59 [RussellK] hmmm

17:47:02 [PatK] though I have never lived far from the ocean, I don't know how that would be

17:47:08 [katdillon] Great

17:47:12 [katdillon] Where's Jackson?

17:47:19 [katdillon] Dry

17:47:20 [RussellK] what did you like about Jackson

17:47:42 [E_Clay10] I lived in Portland ME for a few months in '00 and drove through NH it took maybe 30 minutes

17:47:43 [wildboar] Jackson is north of N. Conway

17:48:12 [katdillon] small state

17:48:30 [E_Clay10] yep

17:48:34 [katdillon] oh, I've been through there then. I liked conway & n. conway

17:48:49 [RussellK] we have people from the seacoast come to keene meetings and viceversa

17:49:14 [RussellK] This is the closest I have ever lived to the ocean PatK

17:49:35 [katdillon] I lived a block from the beach in CA

17:49:40 [wildboar] Jackson is a very picturesque (sp) clean town. Pretty tightly controled place.

17:50:15 [katdillon] lots of picturesque towns here!

17:50:21 [RussellK] you like cute little towns then you move there and try to build a house ....ouch

17:50:23 [katdillon] It's soooo much prettier than TX

17:50:35 [E_Clay10] all right folks nice to meet you all. Live free or die.

17:50:46 [wildboar] I thought Conway and N. Conway were rediculous. It took about 20 minutes just to drive through town because of the traffic and there is just one main street.

17:50:52 [PatK] Well Iguees it's what about an hour and a half from Keene to the sea coast

17:51:15 [erich] Erich is also getting pulled into mastering some video for deaf students an the moment.

17:51:20 [RussellK] a little more

17:51:22 [katdillon] oh bummer...wasn't like that when I went through, so maybe didn't get a good feel for them

17:51:27 [PatK] I drive anhour to montauk to fish here alot so ne big deal

17:51:36 [katdillon] 2.25 hrs

17:51:54 [PatK] more than I thought

17:52:07 [katdillon] 2.2507

17:52:23 [katdillon] he called me 'digital girl' can you believe that?

17:52:37 [RussellK] we are about 2 hours from boston harbor

17:52:45 [RussellK] not any faster to get to the NH coast

17:52:54 [katdillon] 2.37 hrs

17:53:09 [wildboar] What is the big attraction to Keene that I'm hearing here?

17:53:16 [PatK] yea but who the hell wants to drive through Boston

17:53:34 [katdillon] no I

17:53:46 [erich] I've got to think that things are more staid in NH than TX, just because of the extra 200 years of settlement.

17:53:56 [katdillon] It's not too small, not too big, and it's a hotbed of activism

17:54:08 [PatK] I thought Manhatten was bad till I went to Boston

17:54:22 [RussellK] Keene is not too expensive and we live here

17:54:30 [katdillon] Boston = hello on earth

17:54:39 [katdillon] hell

17:54:44 [katdillon] I can't type tonight

17:54:45 [RussellK] we are getting more than our fair share of porcupines here in Keene

17:55:15 [canaan] greetings....

17:55:18 [PatK] And Keene has a wallmart lol

17:55:18 [katdillon] I guess we're meeting in this chatroom tonight for the FSP chat

17:55:25 [RussellK] hello

17:55:32 [PatK] I love the evil Wal-mart

17:55:38 [wildboar] Is there something in particular that the porcupines have done in Keene?

17:55:49 [canaan] just recently found out about porcupines thru a gun magazine article

17:56:03 [katdillon] We're in the process of starting a liberty oriented school

17:56:25 [katdillon] check out nhunderground.com there's a bunch of stuff

17:56:36 [katdillon] that's great, canaan

17:56:37 [RussellK] oh evan nappen got to you.....canaan

17:56:43 [RussellK] he is a good guy

17:56:59 [canaan] yup... russell

17:57:01 [wildboar] That's nice to start a school. has tuittion been set?

17:57:04 [katdillon] Do you have questions about the free state project, canaan?

17:57:22 [canaan] interesting that even WEST WING had NH on the program

17:57:26 [katdillon] no. it's going to be indivual classes at first

17:57:37 [katdillon] cool. what was on west wing?

17:57:46 [RussellK] west wing ....nh?

17:57:56 [wildboar] So how do you make money with the school?

17:58:14 [canaan] kat... the concept sounds intriguing, the main question is viable employment. The company I work for has an office in Dover NH, I have to research openings

17:58:19 [katdillon] right now the individual instructors are charging per class

17:58:35 [canaan] wifey (madmoon) is a banker, so she should be set

17:58:45 [katdillon] oh that's great! Dover is nice. davemincin is in Dover

17:58:58 [katdillon] hi madmoon

17:59:08 [madmoon] howdy kat

17:59:12 [canaan] have to take a vacation there to check things out. LOVE seafood, should be fun

17:59:14 [katdillon] hi scott

17:59:22 [ScottRoth] Hey folks.

17:59:32 [PatK] yea last night on west wing the had the canadatesgoing to the dump and stuff in NH to talk to votters and then went on to belittle the folks and promote a 240 day school year like a 180 days in state jail are not enough

17:59:34 [wildboar] So is the school a formal thing now, I mean can one sign-up and go to it?

17:59:37 [davemincin] hi Kat looks like u have all well in hand

17:59:38 [madmoon] hubby is trying to sell me on the idea of moving to NH

17:59:39 [ScottRoth] Hi Kat.

17:59:52 [katdillon] We're still in the process of getting the school started

18:00:05 [katdillon] Have you ever been to NH, madmoon?

18:00:07 [ScottRoth] Can't wait...

18:00:33 [madmoon] no we've not

18:00:33 [canaan] would be nice to have schools teach kids to learn, as opposed to teaching them to conform...

18:00:36 [RussellK] there are questions for you davemincin...about the seacoast

18:00:58 [davemincin] ok shoot

18:01:16 [katdillon] You're so right! We're planning some night classes for adults, and some day classes supporting homeschoolers

18:01:16 [madmoon] we have been to maryland tho.... there's an awesome sheep and wool festival there every may

18:01:25 [wildboar] Have any of you looked into the viability of actually making a profit from a private school?

18:01:39 [PatK] whats the volicty of a swallow carrying a coconut?

18:01:45 [katdillon] A profit was one of the ideas

18:01:47 [canaan] madmoon would like nothing better than having an alpaca/sheep farm with related crafting projects

18:02:03 [RussellK] a private school can make money

18:02:03 [katdillon] NH is so beautiful. I'm so happy I left TX

18:02:23 [canaan] how long have you been in NH?

18:02:30 [davemincin] if u r in Maryland would suggest u look up Kate and Adam Rick

18:02:32 [katdillon] about 7 months

18:02:33 [ScottRoth] We need more sheep farms.

18:02:36 [RussellK] ok davem patk had a question for you

18:02:38 [wildboar] So do you have a business plan for the private school?

18:03:08 [davemincin] go

18:03:12 [katdillon] Seems like a good place to farm

18:03:37 [RussellK] the instructors rent out the classes and charge what they want, so we all make our own plans

18:03:39 [FTL_Ian] Well look at that, a whole other room

18:03:42 [FTL_Ian] hello all

18:03:45 [PatK] never mind pay no attention to Pat he is just a smart ass

18:03:45 [canaan] LOL, don't know if the alpaca and sheep would like the business I'd like to start.... (shooting range)

18:03:45 [JonM] you on air, or is this time warp hour still ian?

18:03:50 [FTL_Ian] Kat, did you get my last email about your server config?

18:03:50 [katdillon] No. None of us are real business people. We're starting small and working our way into it

18:03:51 [RussellK] hello ian

18:04:04 [FTL_Ian] On air

18:04:09 [FTL_Ian] 2 mins till live

18:04:26 [katdillon] Yes, Ian. The URL seems to work as is

18:04:42 [katdillon] When I tried to change the forum, terrible, unspeakable things happened

18:04:46 [canaan] ommygod, we're not live????

18:04:56 [FTL_Ian] Oh, yes it works, but the config leaves something to be desired that *most* poeple won't notice

18:05:00 [RussellK] lol

18:05:04 [katdillon] Not ian

18:05:21 [katdillon] So nice of you to set it up for me!

18:05:32 [PatK] IM live

18:05:32 [FTL_Ian] so, if you can't config the way I suggested, it's not a huge deal... they do work as is.

18:05:50 [FTL_Ian] Yes, so now next time you're on the radio for an hour, it should be a little smoother.

18:06:37 [katdillon] Yes! If that ever happens again

18:06:39 [RussellK] hello nick

18:06:41 [katdillon] hi Nick

18:07:10 [RussellK] so any really tough questions about NH .....except PatK

18:07:19 [Nick] hello

18:07:26 [RussellK] We have davemincin who represents Dover

18:07:33 [RussellK] Kat and I from Keene

18:07:44 [RussellK] Scott roth from peterborough

18:07:58 [canaan] if it's not to much trouble, how bout a quick and dirty run thru about the project, goals, and method of operation .... Russell

18:08:04 [canaan] *S*

18:08:10 [RussellK] JonM from nearby MA

18:08:27 [JonM] pity me

18:08:31 [Nick] Russ, when do the monad porcs meet?

18:08:33 [RussellK] we want lots of liberty loving people to move to NH

18:08:49 [ScottRoth] Won't be for long, right Jon?

18:08:54 [katdillon] 2nd wednesday of the month

18:08:58 [MiclEdlstn] Is Ben Franklin here today? If not, who's attaching his corny quotes to my name?

18:09:00 [canaan] yes yes....

18:09:07 [RussellK] and do what we can to make NH the most wonderful place in america for liberty

18:09:15 [JonM] well can't move for most of 2005

18:09:21 [Nick] Not a good night for me, but I could try to make it

18:09:23 [katdillon] http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Monadnock+Porcupines

18:09:34 [canaan] not to sound like a wet blanket, but that's sort of the tail wagging the dog

18:09:37 [ScottRoth] Closer than you think, though...

18:09:57 [katdillon] Great

18:10:06 [canaan] worst case scenario, are we talking succession?

18:10:07 [RussellK] the official goals for the FSP are on the website

18:10:19 [Nick] Thanks for the link Kat

18:10:27 [ScottRoth] More like success!

18:10:41 [RussellK] depends on what happens...the FSP is just about getting people together

18:10:52 [MiclEdlstn] Hi, Dave!

18:10:54 [Nick] I'm not sure secession is an amiable path

18:10:55 [katdillon] Not planning on secession. Plan to work within the system

18:10:57 [JonM] secession is unlikely

18:11:03 [RussellK] I wouldn't mind suceeding myself

18:11:09 [canaan] in listening to an interview that KAT did (downloaded from your website) this project seems very loose

18:11:10 [RussellK] seceeed

18:11:17 [JonM] don't want to be invaded by Canada!

18:11:34 [madmoon] but they're so polite LOL

18:11:35 [RussellK] very loose

18:11:40 [katdillon] The project is to get 20,000 people interested in limited government to move here

18:11:44 [RussellK] loose enough for you to join

18:11:45 [canaan] LOL, I just invited a cANADIAN friend to join us in this chat room... look for PARCENON....

18:11:56 [Nick] Are there any movers with questions?

18:12:00 [PatK] it is damn I better deactivate those strtigic blast charges and cancel the tug boats that were gonna pull us out ot sea

18:12:11 [katdillon] lol PatK

18:12:13 [canaan] LOL russell... be careful, 'ye hardly know me'

18:12:20 [JonM] maine woulda been a better choice for that

18:12:27 [Nick] Actually neighboring Quebec is close to secession from canada

18:12:29 [davemincin] hi michael

18:12:30 [RussellK] see ....that is how it works

18:12:32 [JonM] NH is a tight squeeze to get through 19 miles of coastline

18:13:26 [RussellK] Quebec was one of the inspirations for the FSP

18:13:28 [canaan] it will be interesting to see if the power brokers in washington will 'allow' the constitution and declaration of independence to make it back into popularity....

18:13:30 [ScottRoth] NIce views, though...

18:13:46 [canaan] afterall, Uncle Sam is here to help and protect us.... *sic*

18:13:47 [davemincin] we SC are about networking with NH liberty groups...and making welcome as many of the new folks as possible

18:13:50 [Nick] was it really?

18:14:01 [katdillon] They're banned in CA public schools

18:14:14 [erich] Yes, Quebec and other seperatist movements.

18:14:22 [katdillon] Yes, Nick

18:14:42 [JonM] one teacher

18:14:46 [Nick] The power broker have less power than they claim to

18:14:57 [JonM] who is making a big stink about it and getting some air play

18:14:58 [davemincin] We hear to talk about NH or just chat about whatever?

18:15:10 [Nick] ell quebec is a logical inspiration for decentralization

18:15:12 [katdillon] talk about NH

18:15:17 [erich] Does anybody have a link to Jason's article in LE.

18:15:32 [katdillon] ya just a sec

18:15:36 [davemincin] thanks

18:15:45 [RussellK] hey davem how much does it cost for a 4 bedroom house in Dover

18:15:57 [katdillon] http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2001/libe131-20010723-03.html

18:16:00 [JonM] hahahah...who is this manwich person ian?

18:16:18 [FTL_Ian] My co-host

18:16:23 [davemincin] expect were in the coast, closer the the water the more expensive

18:16:27 [katdillon] Are you listening to FTL?

18:16:34 [JonM] that much I know

18:16:40 [JonM] but where did you dig him up?

18:16:41 [davemincin] would say for the most part ur talking a couple grand

18:16:43 [madmoon] also, what kind of RE taxes are we talking for a house there?

18:16:55 [FTL_Ian] Someday you could meet him

18:16:56 [PatK] a sandwich is a sandwich but a manwitch is a meal

18:16:58 [davemincin] or close to it

18:16:59 [RussellK] prices are cheaper in Keene that I thought they would be

18:17:06 [erich] see ya

18:17:09 [katdillon] taxes vary from town to town

18:17:41 [RussellK] how much is it for a 2 bedroom apartment in Dover

18:17:41 [FTL_Ian] Hey Underground, are you going to hang and burn a Bureaucrat Shultz effigy?

18:17:49 [FTL_Ian] Inquiring minds want to know

18:18:03 [katdillon] Not planning on it

18:18:06 [RussellK] ian - you never know what people might do

18:18:23 [Nick] The towns around urban areas tend to have lower taxes than the population centers themselves.

18:18:32 [PatK] Dave how much is a six pack of smuttynose beer?

18:18:45 [katdillon] ew

18:18:47 [davemincin] $800-$1000

18:18:53 [RussellK] hmmm

18:19:02 [JonM] I'll guess $6 without having bought smuttynose in years

18:19:04 [katdillon] expensive beer

18:19:07 [PatK] ew?

18:19:10 [davemincin] heck 5 bucks when u find the deals

18:19:30 [katdillon] smuttynose? makes me think of someone with a cold

18:19:44 [FTL_Ian] If you announce it (perhaps during the 25th protest)

18:19:45 [madmoon] lol

18:19:46 [JonM] microbrew

18:19:50 [FTL_Ian] we'll talk about it

18:19:52 [canaan] I have visions of porcupines wandering around aimlessly

18:19:54 [PatK] o-k theese things are important you know

18:19:59 [RussellK] has anyone heard Dada Orwells impersonation of Dave Mincin?

18:20:02 [Nick] Micro brew is overated anyway

18:20:07 [MiclEdlstn] Dave, may I ask you a q about living in NH?

18:20:11 [RussellK] It is to die for

18:20:29 [katdillon] why aimlessly?

18:20:32 [PatK] lol

18:20:32 [PattyE] Hi everyone

18:20:42 [davemincin] I'm paying $650 for a studio, internet cable, phone, utilities included

18:20:45 [RussellK] step right up....your NH ?s answered here

18:20:46 [katdillon] hi patty

18:20:46 [PatK] aDave impersonator

18:20:49 [davemincin] yes go

18:20:49 [JonM] good beer rocks.

18:20:57 [ScottRoth] Hi Patty

18:21:03 [MiclEdlstn] What was the biggest surprise for you after you moved?

18:21:05 [Nick] Amen Jon

18:21:07 [JonM] but they even brew bud in the free state if you're into that

18:21:08 [PattyE] how about Red Hook Nitro?

18:21:16 [madmoon] that sounds kinda high for that small an apartment, dave

18:21:17 [katdillon] beer has rocks in it?

18:21:27 [PatK] Dave are you still allowed to smoke in bars?

18:21:39 [katdillon] the seacoast is more expensive

18:21:40 [davemincin] not really covers all costs...and is month to month

18:21:51 [PatK] Bud is good to clean floors with

18:21:53 [davemincin] yes...smoking the the bars call

18:22:09 [Nick] Not in Keene Dave

18:22:17 [katdillon] hi billy

18:22:19 [RussellK] I was surprised at how friendly the people in NH are

18:22:24 [Nick] Some towns are pushing bans

18:22:42 [davemincin] michael my biggest suprise was the warm welcome we recieved, and how much the natives appreciated our help

18:22:50 [JonM] I do believe the towns were smacked down when they enacted a ban

18:23:04 [JonM] by the state...go figure

18:23:04 [canaan] It's my understanding that you can live in the New England states for decades, and still be considered an 'outsider'

18:23:06 [PattyE] there's a pub in Kingston that has a sign out front "Still Smokin"

18:23:09 [katdillon] Yes, Dave! the natives do appreciate our help

18:23:09 [jgmaynard] Hey HEY!

18:23:14 [RussellK] oh no jim

18:23:15 [MiclEdlstn] Were these non-libertarian natives?

18:23:19 [PatK] IM surprised every time I leave the NY metro area how nice people are

18:23:26 [RussellK] and we were already talking about beer

18:23:32 [jgmaynard] Depends hwo you act, Canaan. LOL

18:23:34 [katdillon] So they say, canaan. I haven't had anyone tell me I was an outsider yet

18:23:40 [RussellK] yes non-libertarian

18:23:44 [davemincin] seems that the locals look at us as the reinforcements and are most happy to have us on board

18:23:45 [katdillon] Hiya jim

18:23:48 [jgmaynard] Oh no! Russ!

18:23:52 [canaan] that's good to know

18:24:00 [RussellK] I love meeting the anti-big government people in NH

18:24:01 [katdillon] Hi fisher

18:24:02 [JonM] ya gotta go north of the notches

18:24:03 [jgmaynard] hiya Kat, Dave and all!

18:24:18 [Nick] I thought I heard something about smoking bans being ruled unconstitutional by the state supreme court

18:24:19 [katdillon] We had two natives show up at our meeting last night to get our help

18:24:26 [davemincin] have talked to many local freedom folks who have said that we have given much energry to lots of folks who have not be active in a long time

18:24:29 [MiclEdlstn] Hi, Jim!

18:24:32 [jgmaynard] Those are the people I grew upp around, Russ..... See what happens? LOL

18:24:35 [ScottRoth] Hi Jim.

18:24:45 [katdillon] That's what I heard, Nick. No one has challenged it in Keene, I gues

18:24:47 [jgmaynard] Hi!

18:24:48 [katdillon] s

18:24:53 [davemincin] hey jim iron city rocks!

18:24:53 [silverfish] jon, forgive my stupidity, but where exactly are the notches?

18:24:58 [RussellK] We had a school board member talking to us yesterday that figured that 75-80% of Keene like what the FSP represents

18:25:01 [jgmaynard] EACTLY, Kat

18:25:03 [davemincin] be sure to say hello to pat for me

18:25:06 [katdillon] same thing we get here, dave!

18:25:14 [Nick] I', a life long native and I'll admit we dont tend to like flat lander, but most people are looking forward to seeing the FSP take off

18:25:27 [RussellK] man jmaynard is taking credit for NH culture

18:25:29 [davemincin] cool...its incredible!

18:25:32 [jgmaynard] I had a lawyer friend of mine tell me as soon as anyone even files a case, the ban in Keene gets thrown out.

18:25:38 [katdillon] Cool Nick. whereabouts are you?

18:25:56 [Nick] Hi Jim

18:26:03 [MiclEdlstn] RussellK: what was his view of what we represent?

18:26:05 [canaan] everyone please welcome BILLY to the chat, he's an authentic cANADIAN (with an open mind)

18:26:11 [jgmaynard] Naw, Russ.... Just making them take credit (or blame) for mw...

18:26:12 [Nick] Nelson NH, 10 mile north of Keene

18:26:23 [jgmaynard] Hi Nick

18:26:25 [katdillon] Welcome, Billy

18:26:33 [PatK] Hi Billy aye

18:26:34 [katdillon] Oh, we go dancing in Nelson

18:26:35 [Nick] Hi

18:26:36 [ScottRoth] Hi Billy.

18:26:39 [Nick] emember me?

18:26:43 [RussellK] lower taxes and such

18:26:46 [ScottRoth] Contra dancin'.

18:26:47 [billy] hello

18:26:49 [Nick] remember?

18:27:01 [JonM] IAN, here's a url of that guy's story

18:27:03 [JonM] http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=322152&category=REGIONOTHER&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=1/11/2005

18:27:09 [MiclEdlstn] Kat: what type of dancing is there in Nelson?

18:27:11 [Nick] Contra dancin I bet kat

18:27:28 [katdillon] Yes, contra

18:27:34 [jgmaynard] So what great mystical questions might I answer? lol

18:27:38 [katdillon] Nelson is really small

18:27:49 [Nick] Jim we met at Keene High School

18:27:55 [RussellK] a real live canadian....are we allowed to talk to him after Patriot Act II

18:27:57 [PatK] how small is it?

18:27:58 [Nick] I like it up here

18:28:04 [katdillon] Jim, what's the meaning of life, the universe, and everything?

18:28:09 [jgmaynard] I remember Nick. Took me a second, but I did

18:28:13 [jgmaynard] 42

18:28:15 [davemincin] many of us are working on setting up a networking system so when you get here we can plug you into whatever freedom issue floats your boat

18:28:24 [jgmaynard] The problem is "what is the question?"

18:28:26 [Nick] Safe from the KPD, you ought to see how many cops are out on main st. at 2 am

18:28:29 [katdillon] there's like 3 buildings in town...it's really cute

18:28:38 [canaan] you have to pay a special tax to talk to cANADIANS now...

18:28:41 [katdillon] really?

18:29:10 [jgmaynard] There are a lot, but they're mainly looking for the ones who always get into trouble.

18:29:12 [billy] but it is in canadian dollars

18:29:13 [katdillon] congrats, Jim! you remembered!

18:29:17 [Nick] I tried to makea meeting with the Monadnock libs but you guys weren't there

18:29:28 [katdillon] canuk tax?

18:29:33 [canaan] and then looking for the ones who don't look like us..... and so on

18:29:38 [RussellK] Michael - all you need to know about NH is that Jim Maynard actually receives votes for city council each election

18:29:47 [canaan] actually, it's the MADCOW part 2 tax

18:29:57 [katdillon] heh

18:29:58 [davemincin] the NHLP state Bo

18:29:58 [jgmaynard] Yeah, don't know why. Our porc meetings are always great, and no one has shown up to the last couple monadnock libs meetings

18:30:01 [FTL_Ian] Just plugged nhunderground.com on air

18:30:14 [jgmaynard] Freightening, isn't it, Russ? lol

18:30:16 [FTL_Ian] There was a young man on named "Ryan" who is in NH

18:30:20 [Nick] 25% Jim, wasn't your total around that?

18:30:23 [jgmaynard] Thanks, Ian!

18:30:25 [FTL_Ian] and has been on the FSP forums

18:30:27 [ScottRoth] Go Ian.

18:30:37 [FTL_Ian] so, hopefully he'll head your way

18:30:42 [katdillon] What kind of networking system are you setting up, Dave? I'd hoped to provide info on all liberty oriented groups on the underground

18:30:53 [jgmaynard] I've gone through 4 elections, getting between 12.5-25%.

18:30:57 [katdillon] hello npkarem

18:30:59 [Nick] I would like to make a meeting but I have two other commitments the night you meet

18:31:13 [ScottRoth] Hi npkarem.

18:31:21 [Nick] Has the vote % been increasing over that time

18:31:28 [RussellK] commitments were meant to be broken Nick

18:31:34 [PatK] Jim will get more votes if he can get Varrin a 30 foot assualt drive way

18:31:37 [jgmaynard] up and down.

18:31:45 [npkarem] Hi, just taking a peek

18:31:48 [davemincin] mostly personal contacts...but jane has the calendar up, contacted to CNHT and GONH, we are also working on a phone tree at NHLA

18:31:48 [katdillon] We may get together at other times. you want me to let you know?

18:31:49 [jgmaynard] At least ONE more, Pat! lol

18:31:56 [Nick] Yeah I may very well break those commitments

18:32:02 [wildboar] Mr. Maynard, what do you need to win?

18:32:19 [Nick] Councilman Coates certainly knows who you are

18:32:23 [katdillon] votes?

18:32:28 [jgmaynard] Mr. Maynard?!?!?? My father is here???? lol

18:32:29 [davemincin] NHLP is also in the loop...as well as the Constitutional party

18:32:35 [jgmaynard] They ALL do, Nick

18:32:40 [katdillon] I think everyone in town knows Jim

18:32:49 [jgmaynard] In any multi-seat race, you need about 40% to win

18:32:50 [ScottRoth] Oh yeah...

18:33:07 [katdillon] The constitution party of monadnock had 30 people show up the other night!

18:33:13 [wildboar] What do you need to do/have to get 40%?

18:33:14 [JonM] he needs other people to forget to run!

18:33:19 [katdillon] cause that Scott Roth guy rocks

18:33:21 [jgmaynard] Not everyone, Kat. There's one store I haven't been in yet. lol

18:33:27 [ScottRoth] This thing can only get bigger!

18:33:32 [Nick] Coates isn't a bad guy though his politics leave something to be desired

18:33:34 [RussellK] lol

18:33:35 [ScottRoth] Thanks Kat.

18:33:45 [PatK] what store is that?

18:34:01 [jgmaynard] door to door activism with nice brouchures is probably the most effective thing I haven't been able to do

18:34:10 [Nick] I'm not a big fan of the constitution party

18:34:14 [katdillon] More questions about NH?

18:34:20 [ScottRoth] Did anyone say nice brochures?

18:34:24 [jgmaynard] Bingo on Coates, Nick

18:34:28 [wildboar] Why haven't you been able to do the brochures?

18:34:36 [jgmaynard] Matter of fact, Scottt, I DID!

18:34:40 [JonM] mr. maynard did!

18:35:01 [ScottRoth] We need to talk further...

18:35:05 [jgmaynard] Ran out of money before ideas both time, WB....

18:35:07 [katdillon] lol @ "mr. maynard"

18:35:12 [ScottRoth] Happy to help.

18:35:12 [Nick] If you need volunteers to go door to door I can help Jim.

18:35:17 [davemincin] believe we need to find allies were we can and concentrate on issues rather than labels

18:35:19 [katdillon] Scott does fantastic brochures

18:35:32 [jgmaynard] I spent the money that could have gone to brochures on refrigerator magnets last time

18:35:37 [katdillon] you're so right, Dave!

18:35:38 [ScottRoth] No complaints...yet.

18:35:40 [jgmaynard] figured they would be seen more.

18:35:41 [canaan] dave..... AGREED !!!

18:35:54 [katdillon] hi otosan

18:35:56 [jgmaynard] Sounds, great, Nick! Thank you!

18:35:56 [Nick] I'd go with brochures next time

18:36:01 [wildboar] How many brochures would you need and what do you think that would cost?

18:36:04 [otosan] hideho

18:36:10 [ScottRoth] Hi otosan.

18:36:13 [MiclEdlstn] Jim: Is Country Life in Keene still open (terrific restaurant!)?

18:36:20 [jgmaynard] Wow.

18:36:22 [Nick] Just a suggestion

18:36:28 [jgmaynard] There's about 10k voters in town.

18:36:37 [ScottRoth] Best vegetarian food around...

18:36:42 [jgmaynard] It is!

18:37:04 [katdillon] wildboar sounds ready for some political action!

18:37:11 [jgmaynard] yeah, I figured brochures would get lost on people's tables

18:37:13 [Nick] IReally, I've never heard of it actually

18:37:16 [PatK] o-k cross country life of my list

18:37:25 [jgmaynard] where they would USE and continually see a refrig magnet.

18:37:28 [katdillon] me neither

18:37:31 [MiclEdlstn] ScottRoth: Do you know of other vegetarian restaurants in NH?

18:37:47 [katdillon] maybe the people who got magnets last year will vote for you, after seeing your name all year

18:37:49 [jgmaynard] So 10k brouchures for full coverage.

18:38:00 [Nick] The might not put up the mag though and they must not be as cheap

18:38:02 [jgmaynard] Hope so, Kat!

18:38:05 [fisher] stusty's in northwood is vegan too

18:38:14 [ScottRoth] There are 2 I believe in Concord, 1 in Laconia and 1 in Manchester.

18:38:34 [jgmaynard] Was about the same $.60 per for 1k, i think

18:38:35 [wildboar] 10K is too many. How much would it cost for 5K?

18:38:52 [jgmaynard] 1 sec

18:38:56 [Nick] I think a lot of us are ready for action, we talk a lot in this project and I think we want to see something happen

18:39:00 [MiclEdlstn] ScottRoth: How could I get their names?

18:39:35 [wildboar] So what you're saying is that you are short $300???

18:39:41 [ScottRoth] I'll do some research for you. Just leave me your e-mail and I'll send a reply.

18:39:46 [jgmaynard] $1000 for 10k full color brouchures from the place I used last time

18:40:09 [canaan] i heard something about inflating property values to get a higher tax, this is not a good thing, how can it be fought off?

18:40:10 [jgmaynard] Don't say that, Nick.

18:40:19 [RussellK] we run cheap races in NH

18:40:23 [jgmaynard] Kat will break out into Monty Python routines. lol

18:40:33 [MiclEdlstn] DrEdelstein@ThreeMinuteTherapy.com Thanks, Scott!

18:40:37 [katdillon] Me? never

18:40:42 [davemincin] currently working with a Dover tax group to rewrite the city charter

18:40:49 [PatK] I would like to see that

18:40:56 [jgmaynard] ScottRoth> jgmaynard@yahoo.com 603-358-5079

18:40:57 [JonM] .10 isn't a terrible price per, but I can print them for half that on a phaser 7300

18:41:12 [Nick] Monty Python fans, another group I'm proud to be part of

18:41:12 [canaan] excellent,

18:41:24 [madmoon] so that's something that has to be dealt with for each community?

18:41:26 [davemincin] the big problem is property reassment is suppost to be revenue neutral, but mostly isn't

18:41:28 [jgmaynard] Cool. Drop me a note, JonM

18:41:33 [katdillon] splitter

18:41:37 [wildboar] Nick is right and what he's saying is true. I mean, if you guys are serious then you might be better off talking strategy than home brew.

18:41:42 [PatK] some day son all this will be yours = what the curtains?

18:41:42 [JonM] it's my work printer

18:42:02 [JonM] but that's the cost per page not counting the printer cost (about $6k)

18:42:20 [jgmaynard] JonM> jgmaynard@yahoo.com 603-358-5079

18:42:34 [Nick] Home brew is a good topic too, I'm just dying to see some libs take office

18:43:11 [jgmaynard] So we have the town elections happening, and warrant articles in the city..

18:43:14 [JonM] a phaser 8200 will set you back $1000 for the base model, $2500 for top of the line, but it's a solid ink printer, 24 pages a minute and someone could do well printing political stuff on it

18:43:15 [katdillon] Jim, that's a public message you're sending of your phone number

18:43:30 [jgmaynard] Kat. You were going to say something about this?

18:43:31 [ScottRoth] I use a Phaser 850.

18:43:33 [katdillon] do /to person for private messages

18:43:36 [PatK] Im not dead ive feeling much better

18:43:38 [jgmaynard] D'OH!

18:43:52 [madmoon] lol

18:43:54 [katdillon] can you open carry your phaser?

18:43:58 [JonM] sorry, phaser 8400

18:44:06 [jgmaynard] Not a biggie. I know most people here, and it's on the FSP site anyways. lol

18:44:09 [JonM] I have an 850 at work... SLOW AS A DOG TWO DAYS DEAD

18:44:13 [RussellK]

18:44:13 [PatK] and is it set onn stun or kill?

18:44:31 [PatK] thats slow

18:44:33 [JonM] but black ink is free!

18:44:35 [katdillon] that's very picturesque, Jon

18:44:39 [RussellK] now I know you guys aren't serious about freedom who could joke like that

18:44:45 [jgmaynard] Anyone talk to Dawn or Bill about their campaigns?

18:44:48 [wildboar] OK, so you want a Lib in office...How much money will it take? We're talking bucks here right? The message is good and there's no reason for people to be afraid of us.

18:44:48 [Nick] Is there an eligeble person who wants to run for mayor in Keene?

18:44:52 [PatK] but still not as slow as the dmv

18:45:04 [JonM] if you can deal with 1 page every 2 minutes doing duplex high quality

18:45:08 [katdillon] Just a little. Dawn was apparently out smoozing last night

18:45:13 [jgmaynard] Woooooooooooo..

18:45:15 [ScottRoth] Hi 2Hotel9.

18:45:24 [jcpliberty] Good Evening all!

18:45:24 [ScottRoth] Hey Jim.

18:45:32 [2Hotel9] Howdy, I just found you guys.

18:45:33 [canaan] ... now we'll see who will be kind or cruel on his phone calls.... *scary music goes here*

18:45:33 [davemincin] talked to both last weekend think the class we had in Manchester was real helpful

18:45:33 [katdillon] hi hotel, jp

18:45:37 [jgmaynard] There's at least one person (a former councilman) who I would LOVE to see run for mayor

18:45:45 [katdillon] what happened at that class, Dave?

18:45:47 [Nick] Money is the one thing we lackbut I'm not a millionaire so I can't help

18:45:50 [ScottRoth] Glad you found us...

18:45:53 [JonM] hey jim, register any domains today?

18:45:55 [jgmaynard] I know she got burnt out on politics a couple years back, though....

18:45:57 [jcpliberty] I see Jim Maynard on, so I am JP for the evening. Hi Jim! Hey Scott, Kat and everyone.

18:46:03 [Nick] What's their name Jim

18:46:15 [2Hotel9] Was kicking around in Milblogs. Someone pointed me this direction

18:46:23 [PatK] I played lotto if I win I will let ya know

18:46:28 [jgmaynard] Nancy Wilkinson. Not sure if she;d run, though

18:46:45 [katdillon] Are you interested in the Free State Project, 2Hotel9?

18:46:51 [Nick] Well it's all up to her

18:46:57 [katdillon] good plan, Pat

18:47:01 [jgmaynard] If she DID, she'd be fully worthy of our support.

18:47:04 [RussellK] man I only rate as an "everyone"

18:47:19 [jgmaynard] AND would stand a good chance at winning.

18:47:19 [jcpliberty] No, not yet. I will get to the domain registration in the morning.

18:47:23 [ScottRoth] Awwww.....

18:47:26 [jcpliberty] Hi Russell!

18:47:26 [Nick] Is she an LP member or not?

18:47:29 [2Hotel9] Have not heard much more than the name. I'm in PA.

18:47:35 [davemincin] mostly we went over how to run for office in small towns...lots of offices crying to have someone run for them, much easier to get elected that the cities, and get your name out there for bigger things later

18:47:45 [jgmaynard] Nope. A friendly Benson-esque Republican

18:48:07 [katdillon] The Free State Project is a plan in which 20,000 or more liberty-oriented people will move to New Hampshire, where they may work within the political system to reduce the size and scope of government. The success of the Free State Project would likely entail reductions in burdensome taxation...

18:48:16 [JonM] non scandal ridden I would hope

18:48:23 [katdillon] and regulation, reforms in state and local law, an end to federal mandates, and a restoration of constitutional federalism, demonstrating the benefits of liberty to the rest of the nation and the world.

18:48:24 [jcpliberty] Hi, 2Hotel9, billy, canaan, Dave, fisher, Ian, Jon, madmoon, MiclEdlstn, Nick, otosan, Pat, PattyE, PrickleNH, silverfish, viscid and wildboard!

18:48:24 [Nick] You're right on dave we could win a lot of uncontested races in the hick towns

18:48:26 [ScottRoth] You copied...

18:48:32 [RussellK] this is for fun 2hotel9 have to go to http://www.freestateproject.org for the official stuff

18:48:37 [jcpliberty] There!

18:48:48 [Nick] Benson was great

18:48:49 [katdillon] Yes, I'm lazy

18:48:56 [silverfish] JP you are the guy who is going to escape from mass, correct? when will that occur

18:48:58 [jgmaynard] Even in cities like Keene, many of the smaller offices (selectman, etc) doesn't even have enough people running to fill the seats, and NO ONE runs a campaign for those offices

18:49:00 [katdillon] I'm hoping for some scandal

18:49:02 [Nick] For a repub

18:49:02 [PattyE] Hi JP!

18:49:06 [PatK] might not want to say hick towns though kinda turns off the voters

18:49:08 [katdillon] hi margomaps

18:49:14 [ScottRoth] But you're quick about it...

18:49:22 [ScottRoth] Hi margomaps

18:49:22 [jgmaynard] MArgo!

18:49:25 [davemincin] catch u Saturday JP

18:49:26 [jcpliberty] Sunday is the official charade. been here since ealry fall.

18:49:33 [RussellK] no more HI JP from me....no sirree

18:49:37 [katdillon] Feel free to fire away on any questions you have

18:49:42 [margomaps] hey Scott, jg

18:49:42 [Nick] I'm a hick though so I get to say it

18:49:45 [jcpliberty] Hey margomapos

18:49:55 [katdillon] quickest paste in town

18:49:59 [jcpliberty] Oh shush Russell! LOL

18:50:09 [2Hotel9] I am politicaly active here. Lotsa heads to smack here!lol

18:50:10 [RussellK]

18:50:11 [margomaps] is that the Greek spelling of my name, margomapos? hey

18:50:12 [ScottRoth] Yep

18:50:23 [katdillon] Careful Russell, you'll be sent to the whining forum

18:50:27 [ScottRoth] In the White Mountains.

18:50:29 [katdillon] lol

18:50:36 [RussellK] 2hotel9 - davemincin moved from PA to NH

18:50:38 [silverfish] and hello Jim Maynard!

18:50:45 [PatK] the notches are on Kats gun

18:50:47 [ScottRoth] Up near Mount Washington.

18:50:54 [PattyE] north of Conway

18:50:54 [katdillon] congrats on your decision to join the FSP, silver!

18:50:56 [Nick] where is here hotel?

18:50:59 [ScottRoth] BANG!

18:51:02 [silverfish] i have been up at waterville valley

18:51:04 [jgmaynard] So how can we help Dawn and Bill for the March election?

18:51:07 [davemincin] a number of folks signed onto run for office Saturday...will take a bit to get the full count

18:51:11 [katdillon] that's not where *my* notches are

18:51:19 [jcpliberty] Up in the White Mountains, the Kangc is the main highway, right there in the middle of them.

18:51:21 [2Hotel9] I'm rural. North of Pittsburgh

18:51:30 [silverfish] my mother in law is a new hampshire 'resident' up there

18:51:35 [katdillon] I figure we can write a couple letters to the editor and hand out flyers

18:51:38 [ScottRoth] Hi solomon484

18:51:39 [jcpliberty] Guess what everyone:

18:51:43 [PatK] Im to scared to ask were they are

18:51:46 [jcpliberty] Hi soloman 484

18:51:47 [katdillon] Dave mincin's from the pittsburg area

18:51:50 [davemincin] Jim thinking they will need people to pass out flyers

18:51:55 [katdillon] what jp?

18:51:57 [davemincin] yes that's me

18:52:02 [jcpliberty] I am running for Nashua Alderman this year :-)

18:52:03 [jgmaynard] We have flyers for them?

18:52:06 [Nick] There's a north of Pittsburgh?

18:52:18 [Nick] Pittsburgh NH?

18:52:21 [PatK] lderman?

18:52:27 [jgmaynard] Go jim. Go Jim....

18:52:32 [davemincin] Hotel i lived north of PGH Sharon for quite a bit..and know most of the area well

18:52:32 [PatK] oops

18:52:35 [Nick] good for you liberty

18:52:37 [RussellK] whatever happened to waiting a few years JP?

18:52:38 [jcpliberty] I bouth myself a copy of the operating budget (yes they CHARGE for it), a copy of the ordinances and charter

18:52:42 [PatK] whats an Alderman?

18:52:47 [jcpliberty] bought*

18:52:50 [katdillon] Not yet. the election is months away and we don't even know Bill's last name

18:52:54 [solomon484] Hello.

18:52:56 [jcpliberty] Like a City Councillor

18:53:03 [davemincin] if your still in the area i can put you in touch with some folks i know there working on putting a group together

18:53:08 [2Hotel9] Yea, its where pittsburghers come to hunt&drink. Or is that drink&hunt?

18:53:10 [katdillon] wow jp

18:53:11 [jcpliberty] We have Alderman instead.

18:53:11 [PatK] o-k thanks

18:53:21 [ScottRoth] He's still young, Russell.

18:53:34 [jcpliberty] http://www.jimcperry.com

18:53:41 [davemincin] Last note from me was for Hotel

18:53:42 [katdillon] he'll be old, come sunday

18:53:44 [jcpliberty] Well, I got really ticked off today, reading the budget

18:53:50 [Nick] Oh I though Pittsburgh was a border town, sorry

18:53:58 [RussellK] hope you are running one of those unopposed races JP

18:53:59 [jcpliberty] So, I decided, if not to win, then at least to educate about the budget.

18:54:06 [jcpliberty] I would run for Alderman

18:54:08 [ScottRoth] whoa, James...

18:54:13 [JonM] jp: what, you'd prefer they print it at taxpayer expense and give it to you?

18:54:45 [jgmaynard] Reading budgets will do that to ya. lol

18:54:50 [jcpliberty] So, I am running to win, but I would at least like to educate the public about their budget if I do not win.

18:55:21 [Nick] In a couple years I can run, Yes

18:55:25 [JonM] there's a town somewhere among those stores in nashua?

18:55:32 [jcpliberty] Well no, but they put it on a "One Use Only" CD. I can download it onto the computer once, but then the CD it self is no good.

18:55:35 [2Hotel9] I have been reading the Oil For Food Report. GOD! Mind numbing!

18:55:52 [RussellK] stores are a town

18:56:00 [katdillon] yeah, the capitalism is rampant in nashua...terrible thing :P

18:56:17 [madmoon] u can turn that cd into a spindle, jp

18:56:22 [jgmaynard] Wow. goodness forbid you should use the disk twice. lol

18:56:26 [jcpliberty] Yeah, 85,000 residents

18:56:29 [katdillon] What did you find out, Hotel?

18:56:41 [ScottRoth] It's only gonna get worse, 2hotel9.

18:57:07 [jcpliberty] Get U.S. Out of the U.N.!

18:57:19 [jgmaynard] So is your election in Nov, JC?

18:57:21 [ScottRoth] Amen, brother.

18:57:23 [madmoon] amen jim

18:57:32 [JonM] nah, get the U.N. out of the U.S.

18:57:39 [Nick] Some good news for the future, when I ran for governor in the Youth and government I gave a straight up speech about what I would do as governor, and that was right along Libertarian lines. I lost by one vote of about 40 and that includes the fact that it was a primary race between us and ConVal, a

18:57:41 [JonM] move em to France!

18:57:42 [2Hotel9] So far? Mismanagement, theft , lying. The usual!

18:57:52 [jcpliberty] Yep, November,

18:57:54 [Nick] And they outnumbered us two to one

18:58:00 [Alkalyne] Hey all

18:58:04 [katdillon] we held a lovely UN flag burning a few weeks ago

18:58:12 [katdillon] hello alkalyne

18:58:16 [jgmaynard] OK. I gonna head. Ciao, all!

18:58:21 [ScottRoth] Hi Alkalyne.

18:58:26 [jcpliberty] Check out my website for details. I will update more as I go along. Be sure to checdk out my campaign store ;-)

18:58:32 [ScottRoth] Take care Jim.

18:58:34 [jcpliberty] Hi Alkaylne.

18:58:37 [Alkalyne] I'm really really interested in all this.

18:58:38 [RussellK] me too hate to leave the fun but bye everyone

18:58:42 [2Hotel9] I saw the pics. Nice job!!

18:58:43 [jcpliberty] Bye Jim!

18:58:45 [katdillon] night, jim

18:59:00 [ScottRoth] Night Russell.

18:59:04 [MiclEdlstn] bye everyone

18:59:08 [katdillon] Great, alk. Are there any questions we can answer?

18:59:14 [jcpliberty] Bye Russell!

18:59:29 [Alkalyne] In fact.. its almost a dream of mine. I've always wanted to see something like this. Well... after waking up to all the tyrrany.

18:59:32 [Nick] I wish I'd known about that flag burning kat, I cut out the article

18:59:32 [solomon484] Later Russell-even if your realted to Bertrand Russell

18:59:35 [RussellK] bye JP

18:59:47 [Nick] bye jim

19:00:05 [jcpliberty] Blech... Bertrand Russell, what did you have to bring HIM up for?

19:00:15 [Nick] That was some extensive press for such a small demonstration

19:00:18 [Alkalyne] Er.. so you guys all live in the same community?

19:00:18 [jcpliberty] LOL

19:00:24 [katdillon] I agree with you there! I felt like I had to do something to stop the tyranny!

19:00:28 [2Hotel9] We have regular shoots here, UN berets and flags.

19:00:38 [katdillon] No, we're all over the state

19:00:44 [jcpliberty] Nashua here!

19:00:44 [katdillon] lol Hotel

19:00:45 [Alkalyne] oh

19:01:01 [PattyE] Seabrook

19:01:03 [Alkalyne] then why is it so imparitive to be in NH?

19:01:09 [jcpliberty] But Keene has an unusually high concentration.

19:01:16 [ScottRoth] It's the only place to be.\

19:01:18 [Nick] Nelson

19:01:19 [Alkalyne] ah

19:01:24 [katdillon] We picked on state with a small population to concentrate on

19:01:35 [Alkalyne] Won't this turn into a huge Waco?

19:01:41 [Alkalyne] worst case senario

19:01:42 [katdillon] that already is pretty liberty friendly

19:01:42 [jcpliberty] On the Free State Project website is a document, 101 Reasons to Move to NH

19:01:46 [davemincin] because we have the opportunty for real change in the direction of more freedom

19:01:47 [2Hotel9] NH has always been a hot bed of freedom.

19:01:48 [katdillon] I hope not!

19:02:00 [Nick] NH is the most free state in the union aswell

19:02:11 [jcpliberty] Indeed.

19:02:19 [katdillon] NH does have good gun laws, though

19:02:24 [jcpliberty] Seethe above referenced 101 Reasons

19:02:44 [Nick] I doubt there will be a waco, what would they get a warrant for, being libertarian

19:02:47 [katdillon] http://freestateproject.org/

19:02:59 [PattyE] I enjoyed my first 3 minute auto inspection (takes half hour in MA)

19:03:08 [katdillon] it's going to be tough to massace people spread out all over the state, anyway

19:03:10 [2Hotel9] Only one gun law 2nd Amendment

19:03:17 [Alkalyne] Nick: They don't need a warrant... they didn't for Waco.

19:03:21 [katdillon] yikes

19:03:35 [PatK] NH=no income tax no sales tax, people friendly to liberty and Dave will buy you abeer what more could you ask for

19:03:38 [Alkalyne] Ture Kat... thats why I asked if it was a community

19:03:41 [FTL_Ian] Violence on the part of the government is not scaring us away from the freedom we deserve.

19:03:42 [Nick] They did have a warrant for waco

19:04:00 [Alkalyne] A warrant for what?

19:04:22 [Nick] If you won't take a risk you wan't get anywhere, nothing ventured, nothing gained

19:04:22 [Alkalyne] FTL: it won't scare me either.. I was just curious

19:04:42 [FTL_Ian] Nick: to play Devil's Advocate, they may not need a warrant if you're a "suspected terrorist"

19:04:51 [davemincin] believe we are talking about a warrant article...like in getting something on the ballot

19:04:52 [katdillon] We can have voilence committed against us even if we weren't doing this. We've got to try

19:05:08 [FTL_Ian] kat: no doubt

19:05:18 [jcpliberty] USA Patriot... no more warrants needed.

19:05:29 [Nick] That's true Ian, Patriot act is to thank for that

19:05:48 [2Hotel9] Been shot at before. Ain't nothin' but a thing.

19:05:52 [katdillon] here's a little project I'm working on: http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=101+Reasons+to+Fear+your+Government

19:06:03 [katdillon] wow

19:06:29 [solomon484] No warrants, no probable cause, and torture if troublemaker.

19:06:34 [Nick] Why were you shot at??

19:06:54 [PatK] husband came home early

19:07:12 [davemincin] anything else about NH?

19:07:13 [Nick] If you don't mind saying

19:07:17 [2Hotel9] Army, 79 to 85. Honduras 82-83.

19:07:31 [ScottRoth] Let's try this again.

19:07:36 [katdillon] lol pat

19:07:56 [katdillon] welcome back, scott

19:08:10 [ScottRoth] Couldn't type anything...

19:08:15 [Nick] I might be going Army next year

19:08:32 [2Hotel9] What MOS?

19:08:37 [ScottRoth] Sorry to hear that. Thanks for trying.

19:09:13 [PatK] X-Navy but nobody ever shot at me

19:09:17 [Nick] I'm thinking MPs, but they are often dployed, I want to go ANG

19:10:21 [Nick] I'm not sure if I'm going, I'm currently in CAP so I get to start as an E3

19:10:30 [2Hotel9] Go Combat Arms. Get it over with right off the bat! LOL

19:10:30 [ScottRoth] Appreciate it...

19:10:32 [davemincin] Later folks...hope to see some of u Saturday!

19:10:44 [Nick] But I'll probably go for a comision regardless

19:10:48 [ScottRoth] Take care Dave.

19:10:48 [katdillon] night dave...thanks for coming. we'll be there sat

19:10:51 [PatK] be good Dave

19:10:57 [Nick] What's up saturday?

19:11:02 [PattyE] Dave - are you going to Nashua on Saturday?

19:11:04 [jcpliberty] bye dave

19:11:12 [2Hotel9] Later, PA

19:11:25 [Nick] You mean weapons specialist hotel?

19:11:26 [jcpliberty] What's in Nashua Saturday?

19:11:29 [FTL_Ian] Hope you military people don't get your asses stop-lossed!

19:12:02 [Nick] I think most of them hope so too Ian

19:12:09 [JonM] stay air force

19:12:19 [Nick] I'm anti Iraq war just to put that out there

19:12:22 [JonM] army tends to get the short shrift on equipment

19:12:30 [canaan] or coast guard

19:12:50 [ScottRoth] No war ever declared.

19:12:56 [2Hotel9] They don't want me, I tend to shoot people. Regardless of current political climate.

19:12:57 [Nick] Air Force tends to be better duty, I'd like to hook up with the air guard at pease

19:13:28 [Nick] You sound like my kind of soldier hotel

19:13:31 [jcpliberty] Well, I am a Conscientious Objector based upon my religious beliefs on top of the fact that the War in Iraq is illegal.

19:13:33 [canaan] .... nothing like the smell of gunpowder in the morning...

19:13:57 [canaan] legal war.... interesting concept..... hmmm

19:14:10 [solomon484] I say the same about depleted uranium.

19:14:14 [Nick] I couldn't get a CO release unless I lied

19:14:34 [jcpliberty] Ah.

19:14:45 [Nick] Liberty, would you kill for any reason

19:14:51 [2Hotel9] People want to kill us, rather do it there than here. And no, it ain't our foreign policy they don't like

19:14:58 [margomaps] sounds complicated. a lot of in's, a lot of out's...a lot of what-have-you's

19:15:05 [ScottRoth] Kat, what's up on Saturday?

19:15:30 [Nick] Legal is an ambiguos term

19:15:54 [PattyE] Seacoast Porcupine meeting on Saturday

19:16:04 [ScottRoth] Ahhhhh......

19:16:09 [jcpliberty] Personal Self Defense or in the defense of any of my friends, if I were present at an initiation of force on their life, liberty or property.

19:16:11 [Nick] Justified is more my peramiter, Afghanistan was justified, Iraq wasn't

19:16:11 [solomon484] What is job situation in NH?

19:16:19 [katdillon] Seacoast porcupines, handing out flyers in Hampton

19:16:31 [PatK] good night all

19:16:32 [ScottRoth] Yep.

19:16:40 [ScottRoth] Nite, Pat.

19:16:40 [katdillon] Russell had no problem finding work

19:16:45 [Nick] Night

19:16:46 [jcpliberty] Night Pat!

19:16:52 [ScottRoth] Jobs are avilable.

19:16:58 [ScottRoth] available.

19:16:58 [Nick] I can't make seacoast saturday

19:17:08 [PattyE] at the courthouse in Hampton, right?

19:17:25 [solomon484] What is pay in comparison to other states?

19:17:30 [katdillon] No, that will be on the 25th

19:17:36 [katdillon] at the courthouse

19:17:40 [Nick] Nothing happening in the monadnock region this wknd?

19:17:41 [jcpliberty] Yeah, jobs are readily available and there are very few business restrictions, so starting your own is easy here.

19:17:53 [Nick] You mean salary?

19:18:00 [ScottRoth] Not top dollar, but not bottom either.

19:18:00 [katdillon] No. Nashua on Sunday though

19:18:09 [PattyE] temp jobs at the Seabrook PO - $13.05/hr

19:18:10 [solomon484] Yes.

19:18:12 [katdillon] We're chaining jcp up

19:18:22 [jcpliberty] Saturday Morning, 9:00 AM Wilton, NH at gary's Harvest Rest.

19:18:31 [katdillon] oh yeah

19:18:35 [canaan] chaining jcp???? are we getting kinky here???

19:18:38 [Nick] Pretty high though I don't have stats to back that up

19:18:39 [ScottRoth] Still on...

19:19:01 [katdillon] We're breaking his bonds from MA

19:19:12 [katdillon] and handing out FSP flyers and such

19:19:40 [solomon484] Where is Seabrook PO?

19:19:42 [Nick] Sounds symbolic kat

19:19:45 [PattyE] did the Eagle-Tribune reporter respond kat?

19:19:56 [Nick] Too bad I can't be there

19:19:56 [katdillon] http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Jim+Perry+chained+up

19:20:03 [katdillon] Nope, Patty

19:20:15 [Nick] New Hampshirites will like that

19:20:28 [PattyE] told him it would be a good story

19:20:44 [katdillon] thanks

19:20:46 [jcpliberty] I am going to have an I Hate Massachusetts bumpah stickah printed up for the car.

19:21:01 [katdillon] lol

19:21:01 [Nick] Anti Mass bias is stronger than most people would think possible in an era where every state is supposed to be the same

19:21:05 [2Hotel9] Did MA flog him at the tail of a CART BEFORE HE COULD LEAVE, KAT

19:21:07 [jcpliberty] Not in tieme though for Sunday

19:21:35 [2Hotel9] Sorr, hit that damn caps lock again.

19:21:45 [katdillon] Flogging, we didn't consider that. you up for flogging, too, jim?

19:22:15 [Nick] I only like mass because I can go to the big concert venues there

19:22:16 [jcpliberty] NO!

19:22:19 [canaan] chaining and flogging.... did the tone of this room suddenly change?

19:22:20 [katdillon] lol

19:22:39 [Nick] C'mon jim take a wippin for the team

19:22:41 [2Hotel9] Jim, you the jcp whats getting chained?

19:22:49 [ScottRoth] He's from Massachusetts. We have to be careful, you know...

19:22:59 [katdillon] Time for me to hit the hay. Good night everyone and thanks for coming!

19:23:12 [ScottRoth] Nite Kat. Talk to you soon.

19:23:18 [jcpliberty] JCPLIBERTY = Jim C. Perry, candidate for Nashua Alderman-at-Large

19:23:19 [2Hotel9] Later on, kat

19:23:22 [Nick] Good night, gad I could make it

19:23:24 [PattyE] bye kat

19:23:25 [jcpliberty] Nite Kat!

19:24:54 [FTL_Ian] To anyone who has voted for my show, thanks

19:24:57 [2Hotel9] Been interesting. I'll be back. Got to get back to my reading. That mind numbing crap ain't going to read itself!!

19:25:01 [FTL_Ian] To those that havent: http://www.podcastalley.com/see_comments.php?pod_id=929

19:25:08 [ScottRoth] Great show, Ian. Glad I found it.

19:25:09 [FTL_Ian] Please take 20 seconds

19:25:12 [FTL_Ian] click there

19:25:18 [PattyE] yqw ian

19:25:18 [FTL_Ian] vote 5 stars

19:25:36 [FTL_Ian] more votes = more listeners = more potential FSP recruits

19:25:47 [FTL_Ian] Thanks Scott

19:25:53 [FTL_Ian] How did you find it?

19:26:31 [wildboar] I'm looking for a nice place to live in NH. Took a tour over New Years and found Jackson (north of N. Conway) and liked that. Anyone familiar with Jackson?

19:26:36 [ScottRoth] A link from one of the liberty websites.

19:27:04 [FTL_Ian] Know which?

19:27:16 [ScottRoth] Jackson. Yeah, nice bridge...

19:27:40 [ScottRoth] Don't remember, Ian. But if I do, I'll e-mail you for sure.

19:28:23 [FTL_Ian] Nice to know who is linking

19:28:26 [FTL_Ian] thanks

19:28:35 [ScottRoth] I've been on SO MANY sites lately...

19:28:40 [FTL_Ian] Have you called your local talk stations?

19:28:42 [wildboar] Yes, nice bridge, golf course, town, view, etc... Is there another town in NH like Jackson so I have something to compare it to?

19:28:43 [jcpliberty] Anyway, I need to go do some prep for going to Hampton tomorrow to hand out flyers. Talk to you all later! Check out http://www.jimcperry.com and buy stuff from my Campaign Store so I can afford to run!

19:28:46 [FTL_Ian] We would love for you to do so

19:28:50 [2Hotel9] Later on, Gang. Got to go.

19:28:51 [jcpliberty] G'night!

19:28:57 [FTL_Ian] bye now jcp

19:29:01 [ScottRoth] See you on Saturday, JP.

19:29:43 [PattyE] where are you handing out flyers in Hampton?

19:29:43 [ScottRoth] Lots of towns like Jackson here in NH.

19:30:09 [ScottRoth] Have to check with JP on that.

19:30:41 [solomon484] Later Room.

19:30:46 [wildboar] Like what other towns? I drove the whole state North/south (not East/west) and didn't see anything quite as nice as Jackson.

19:31:43 [ScottRoth] Well, it is one of the most popular of tourist towns.

19:32:24 [ScottRoth] I wouldn't mind living there myself.

19:32:34 [PattyE] lots to do in Jackson

19:32:46 [wildboar] I';m not necessarily interested in it being a tourist town, just clean.

19:33:51 [FTL_Ian] Where are you at in NH, Scott?

19:33:59 [PattyE] it's near everything, including the Fryeburg Fair in ME

19:34:02 [ScottRoth] Peterborough

19:34:31 [PattyE] another very nice town

19:34:35 [ScottRoth] It's a wonderful town to raise a family in.

19:34:46 [PattyE] a "calendar" town

19:34:50 [ScottRoth] I've been here going on 30 years now.

19:34:54 [ScottRoth] Yep.

19:35:30 [PattyE] always think of the cover of Yankee Magazine when I hear Peterborough

19:35:33 [ScottRoth] Hi silverfish.

19:35:44 [silverfish] hi there

19:35:46 [ScottRoth] Yeah. It's been on it many times...

19:36:00 [silverfish] i was here earlier, had to bring the kids home

19:36:16 [ScottRoth] Welcome back.

19:36:30 [FTL_Ian] apparenly, there are no talk stations in listening range for you to call, Scott

19:36:35 [PattyE] Tuftonboro a fav too

19:36:36 [silverfish] it appears i missed everyone

19:36:53 [silverfish] well not everyone

19:36:54 [PattyE] JonM still with us?

19:36:57 [silverfish]

19:37:06 [ScottRoth] That's right, Ian. Guess we'll have to keep working on that one.

19:37:07 [JonM] who?

19:37:31 [silverfish] how many in here have already made the move or were in NH to begin with?

19:37:54 [FTL_Ian] I wish I was in NH

19:38:03 [PattyE] < grew up in NH, moved to MA for 15 yrs, now back in NH!

19:38:04 [ScottRoth] I've been in NH almost 30 years.

19:38:19 [ScottRoth] Where are you at, Patty?

19:38:23 [silverfish] i went to college in MA at Babson in Wellesley

19:38:30 [PattyE] Seabrook

19:38:39 [ScottRoth] We need to setup a fund to get you up here, Ian.

19:38:53 [silverfish] in the Peoples Republik of Kullifornia now

19:38:54 [ScottRoth] Ahh..., the coast.

19:38:59 [PattyE] oops...correction... moved to MA for 30 yrs...

19:39:18 [JonM] ian can do the ghostcow walk, and broadcast all the way

19:39:28 [ScottRoth] Ahnuldville

19:39:46 [silverfish] how far did that guy walk?

19:39:53 [ScottRoth] Lots of listeners in between

19:40:08 [silverfish] yeah, well Ahhnold isnt all that much better than Gray Davis

19:40:21 [ScottRoth] I hear that!

19:40:31 [silverfish] and all the fruits and nuts near the coast are horrid out here

19:40:34 [ScottRoth] Just smokes better cigars.

19:41:21 [silverfish] well now they are pursuing the illegal alien drivers licenses

19:41:32 [PattyE] ian, when are you planning on moving to NH?

19:41:37 [ScottRoth] So Ian, what do we need to do to get you on the air up here?

19:41:44 [silverfish] which has all the rush limbaugh/sean hannity clones drooling all over the talk radio

19:41:57 [ScottRoth] How do we get radio stations up here to carry you?

19:42:12 [FTL_Ian] When I start making money on this show

19:42:17 [FTL_Ian] patty.

19:42:34 [ScottRoth] I hear that.

19:43:18 [ScottRoth] Well, my wife and I are excited about all of the Fress Staters coming this way.

19:43:29 [ScottRoth] Free Staters.

19:43:33 [FTL_Ian] Scott: that is a good question

19:43:44 [ScottRoth] It'll just make NH even better.

19:43:46 [FTL_Ian] I have every NH talker in my database now

19:43:56 [FTL_Ian] I have not yet spoken with most of the PDs

19:44:30 [ScottRoth] I would love to approach some radio stations here, but I'm afraid I'm a newbie at this sort of thing.

19:44:34 [FTL_Ian] I have encouraged FSPers to contact their local stations

19:44:42 [ScottRoth] But the heart is willing...

19:44:44 [FTL_Ian] Well, so am I

19:44:46 [FTL_Ian] I'

19:45:01 [FTL_Ian] I'm hesitant because I don't want it to seem too contrived

19:45:10 [ScottRoth] I understand.

19:45:15 [FTL_Ian] But I still think it's best to do this, anyway:

19:45:22 [FTL_Ian] http://radio-locator.com

19:45:27 [ScottRoth] Certainly is needed though.

19:45:37 [ScottRoth] Cool. I'll check it out.

19:45:46 [FTL_Ian] find some local stations ( the categories you want are Talk and News/Talk )

19:46:03 [FTL_Ian] Call them during business hours, ask for the Program Director

19:46:12 [FTL_Ian] (usually available in mornings)

19:46:13 [ScottRoth] Gotcha.

19:46:13 [PattyE] you should come here on vacation and guest host

19:46:31 [ScottRoth] There's an idea...

19:46:57 [FTL_Ian] Tell them your favorite show, Free Talk Live, is now syndicated, and you wish it was on their station 6 days per week

19:47:04 [PattyE] then we can all call the station and demand you as a regular!

19:47:23 [ScottRoth] Oh yeah.

19:47:25 [FTL_Ian] Patty, I think if the FSP stays on board with us for a little while we might just come up there for a Porcfest and broadcast live

19:47:45 [ScottRoth] That would be awesome.

19:47:45 [FTL_Ian] I don't know if we can do it this year

19:47:57 [FTL_Ian] It depends on the financial shape we're in

19:48:04 [FTL_Ian] But I can definately see next year

19:48:17 [FTL_Ian] And of course next year we'll be on many more affiliates.

19:48:18 [PattyE] cool!

19:48:34 [ScottRoth] Any way to do a linkup from here?

19:48:36 [FTL_Ian] Scott, are you clear on the process of calling stations?

19:48:48 [FTL_Ian] Anywhere there's a good phone line

19:48:52 [FTL_Ian] We can do a show

19:48:56 [JonM] oh, flights from FL are dirt cheap to logan

19:48:58 [ScottRoth] Yes, thank you.

19:49:02 [FTL_Ian] So we could do it from the campground

19:49:12 [FTL_Ian] assuming their line isn't old and noisy

19:49:12 [JonM] and ya live in a tent!

19:49:27 [ScottRoth] Wouldn't that be great.

19:49:42 [FTL_Ian] Yes, yes it would

19:50:11 [PattyE] excellent idea

19:50:19 [FTL_Ian] Of course, if the FSP foolishly decides to pull their sponsorship, we'll be very sad. That money is going to be seeding some ads in "Talkers" magazine

19:50:22 [silverfish] time to feed the kiddies

19:50:45 [FTL_Ian] We're using it to advertise the show, meaning more stations, listeners, and potential recruits for the FSP

19:50:53 [ScottRoth] Take care silverfish.

19:51:10 [FTL_Ian] cya silverfish

19:51:13 [PattyE] nite silverfish

19:51:19 [ScottRoth] Is it a print, or electronic mag?

19:51:25 [FTL_Ian] Print

19:51:29 [PattyE] why would the FSP pull sponsorship?

19:51:33 [FTL_Ian] It's THE talk industry publication

19:52:19 [FTL_Ian] I dunno.. radio advertisers get scared, if after one month they haven't gotten results

19:52:21 [ScottRoth] Found it.

19:52:47 [JonM] that would require decision making ability, wouldn't it?

19:52:50 [FTL_Ian] they don't realize that it's a long term process

19:53:03 [ScottRoth] Advertisinf usually is.

19:53:08 [JonM] it could take months of discussion to decide if it isn't working

19:53:09 [ScottRoth] advertising

19:53:16 [ScottRoth] Long day...

19:53:28 [FTL_Ian] That's good JonM, because we're about ready to sign a contract with Talkers

19:53:38 [JonM] besides, you are pulling in some recruits

19:53:58 [FTL_Ian] and we were concerned that we'd have to cover the difference if the FSP gets scared

19:53:59 [PattyE] so we get a list of advertisers and buy stuff from them and let them know where we heard about them?

19:54:01 [JonM] domino effect and all

19:55:07 [JonM] FSP is too decentralized to get all scared, you have the guy who decided to give you the sponsorship to worry about and not much of anyone else

19:55:17 [FTL_Ian] We're convinced that we're the best advertsiing opportunity for the FSP, period. I just hope Robert Hull agrees.

19:55:28 [FTL_Ian] Right, Mr. Hull is the man

19:55:48 [JonM] the more stations that pick you up, the better

19:55:51 [PattyE] brb - gotta go take killer NY-Style cheesecake outta the oven (you hear that JonM?)

19:55:58 [FTL_Ian] Patty: having a list of sponsors to give you would be great

19:56:02 [JonM] you ever plan to charge for the feed, or will it all be based on advertising?

19:56:18 [FTL_Ian] EXACTLY, Jon

19:56:42 [JonM] that was an either or question!

19:57:26 [FTL_Ian] I don't have those plans, but if our bandwidth consumption cranks up, and advertising can't cover it, we'll ask for donations, then maybe create an elite level of archives for $$$. But I love giving archives out free, so I don't see that going away

19:57:42 [FTL_Ian] The exactly was for your earlier line

19:57:48 [PattyE] maybe you could post a list of sponsors in the FSP forums

19:58:21 [FTL_Ian] Patty: we have no sponsors yet, EXCEPT the FSP

19:58:23 [FTL_Ian]

19:58:43 [FTL_Ian] Once we get into enough markets, there is a company standing by who will sell our spots for us

19:58:44 [PattyE] oh...

19:58:53 [FTL_Ian] And we're not too far away from that point...

19:58:58 [JonM] how many is enough?

19:59:22 [JonM] have you talked to WRKO yet?

19:59:33 [FTL_Ian] Depends on the AQH

19:59:45 [FTL_Ian] Average Quarter Hour listener count

19:59:53 [JonM] michael savage just makes me dive for the FM button

20:00:01 [JonM] but I don't know what ratings he pulls in boston

20:00:05 [JonM] you should

20:00:09 [FTL_Ian] He's our biggest competitor

20:00:27 [JonM] what, laura isn't?

20:00:31 [FTL_Ian] I have called RKO several times and haven't yet hit the PD

20:00:45 [FTL_Ian] Savage is EVERYWHERE, and PDs love him.

20:01:09 [PattyE] PDs?

20:01:17 [JonM] program directors

20:01:22 [PattyE] ah

20:01:23 [FTL_Ian] Sorry

20:01:28 [FTL_Ian] Program Directors

20:02:13 [FTL_Ian] That may be an effective call to a Savage affiliate: "I always shut off your station when Savage comes on, if you really want controversy and me as a listener, replace him with FTL"

20:03:06 [FTL_Ian] I won't leave messages though, so a message from a listener to the RKO PD might be useful when I finally connect with him.

20:03:18 [JonM] before or after?

20:03:54 [ScottRoth] Well, time to hit the sack. 4AM comes around real fast. Have a great nite, folks. Thanks for the info Ian. I will see what I can do here.

20:04:04 [FTL_Ian] before

20:04:14 [PattyE] i called WRKO to protest when they first put Savage on, and I wrote a letter to the station

20:04:17 [FTL_Ian] I have a feeling it will be a little while before I get him

20:04:27 [FTL_Ian] Thanks Scott.. I look forward to hearing about your results

20:04:49 [FTL_Ian] WRKO 617-779-3400 PD: Mike Elder

20:04:52 [ScottRoth] I'll let you know. Keep up the good work, my friend.

20:05:18 [PattyE] nite Scott

20:05:32 [ScottRoth] Nite Patty.

20:05:39 [JonM] do you know what the talk ratings in boston are?

20:06:18 [FTL_Ian] I do not

20:09:23 [FTL_Ian] There are 2 Boston PDs that I have spoken with

20:10:49 [FTL_Ian] WKOX 1200 / WXKS 1430 - Dennis Oheron

20:11:05 [FTL_Ian] 781-396-1430

20:11:27 [FTL_Ian] They are "progressive" format. Simulcasting

20:11:46 [FTL_Ian] I'm trying to follow up with him

20:12:18 [FTL_Ian] If he's anything like other "progressive" PDs, he'll tell me he's 100% Air America by contract... but we'll see.

20:12:52 [FTL_Ian] The other station is WTTT 1150 - Jim Carter

20:12:58 [FTL_Ian] Jim describes himself as a Libertarian

20:13:06 [PattyE] http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRRatings/DetailsPage.aspx?MID=35&RY=2004&RQ=4&MP=2&OTHER=2&MN=Boston&MS=MA&MR=9&12P=3888800&UP=12/15/2004%2012:00:00%20AM&SU=CM&BPER=6.1&HPER=6.2&OPER=&NSD=1/18/2005%2012:00:00%20AM&CE=0

20:13:10 [FTL_Ian] But he works for "Salem Communications"

20:13:43 [FTL_Ian] they are "family friendly". He claims to have pitched it to his General Manager and the "Corporate programming guy".

20:14:06 [FTL_Ian] I'm scheduled to follow up with him in a week.

20:14:40 [FTL_Ian] WBZ is on the shitlist. He only wants local shows

20:14:43 [FTL_Ian] Too bad

20:15:27 [FTL_Ian] wow.. that's helpful Patty

20:15:31 [FTL_Ian] Bookmarked

20:17:01 [JonM] you'll be local eventually

20:17:03 [FTL_Ian] If you want to call Jim at WTTT: 617-328-0880

20:17:22 [FTL_Ian] I sure as hell don't want to work in Boston

20:17:28 [JonM] I don't think I've EVER hit 1150 on my radio

20:17:30 [FTL_Ian] I like my home studio

20:17:52 [JonM] brudnoy broadcast from home

20:17:59 [FTL_Ian] Hmm.. apparenly they aren't even rated

20:18:27 [JonM] on the AM dial I pretty much hit 680, and 96.9 on the fm

20:18:34 [JonM] but TKK has laura in that time slot

20:19:29 [FTL_Ian] TKK would be a great affiliate

20:19:38 [FTL_Ian] I have yet to speak with that PD

20:19:45 [FTL_Ian] Paula O Connor

20:20:01 [FTL_Ian] 617-822-9600

20:20:13 [JonM] laura has come to boston quite a few times

20:20:40 [JonM] and frankly, she may be a right winger, but she's cuter than you

20:20:49 [PattyE] she likes the Four Seasons...

20:21:52 [JonM] WRKO's broadcast is like due north and south, I remember I could barely pick them up on 495 in Boxborough which is northwest of boston

20:22:33 [JonM] and apparently jay severin is kicking howie carr's ass in the ratings

20:22:58 [JonM] now jay is SCARY looking, he was made to be a radio host

20:23:55 [PattyE] i'm liking the "Independent Man" lately

20:24:44 [JonM] you have a longer drive than me, I tend to hear commercials

20:26:02 [PattyE] John DiPietro

20:26:06 [JonM] you need to call him up and promote the FSP patty!

20:26:32 [PattyE] yeah, but not good to hear that show... means I'm on the road at 10:00 am... late for work again!

20:27:05 [FTL_Ian] I wonder who is winning between Ingraham and Savage

20:27:08 [FTL_Ian] in Boston

20:27:12 [PattyE] maybe we both could call him up, eh?

20:27:34 [PattyE] hope Laura is winning

20:27:38 [JonM] laura has a better lead in

20:27:52 [JonM] but wrko doesn't subscribe to arbitron

20:28:15 [JonM] though arbitron does track them...

20:28:25 [JonM] they tend to have older listeners

20:28:41 [JonM] http://www.animaux.net/stern/boston.html

20:29:57 [FTL_Ian] Yes. TKK would be the best affiliate in Boston

20:30:10 [FTL_Ian] but as you can imagine, we'll take anything we can get

20:30:16 [JonM] you'd displace laura, and I would be forced to hate you.

20:30:38 [FTL_Ian] Having ANYthing in Boston, would get us the AQH we need to be saleable.

20:30:44 [JonM] last summer she went off the air to re-tool or work on the book or something

20:30:48 [FTL_Ian] Jon, you don't have a chance with her

20:31:12 [PattyE] don't worry ian, he hates me too, because i can buy gas for $1.64/gallon... heh

20:31:18 [JonM] of course not, but she has a much more pleasant voice than the other hosts

20:31:59 [JonM] wrko used to have a larger audience, they were just old folks, don't know if that's still the case

20:32:38 [JonM] and howie is kinda libertarian...kinda

20:32:45 [FTL_Ian] To each his own, I find her a bit grating

20:33:00 [JonM] as compared to savage?

20:33:17 [FTL_Ian] I just dislike him

20:33:55 [FTL_Ian] It's not fair to compare a woman's voice to a man's

20:34:08 [FTL_Ian] Compared to other women, Ingraham is grating

20:34:22 [JonM] savage is just angry

20:34:56 [PattyE] Laura is a female Imus

20:35:35 [PattyE] agree - savage is a very angry man

20:36:06 [JonM] the daily show keeps playing a clip of a city councilman winging something at a tv reporter's back

20:36:46 [FTL_Ian] Laura is politically the Female Rush

20:37:54 [JonM] speaking of someone who should be a libertarian by now

20:38:07 [JonM] the drug thing shoulda pushed ya over the edge rush!

20:38:17 [FTL_Ian] He's a coward

20:38:22 [FTL_Ian] Just like the rest of them

20:38:53 [JonM] rush is good at what he does

20:39:45 [FTL_Ian] He absolutely is

20:40:13 [JonM] I listened to a lot of air america when I was in florida

20:40:18 [JonM] they're not.

20:40:26 [FTL_Ian] If he has principles, he's a coward. IF the doesn't, he's ignorant.

20:40:37 [FTL_Ian] They are not cowards?

20:40:48 [FTL_Ian] Or not good?

20:41:08 [PattyE] or not american?

20:41:18 [JonM] not very good at what they do

20:41:36 [FTL_Ian] I wish them much failure. Because when the "majority report" tanks, then FTL will be right there waiting.

20:42:23 [JonM] well, eventually they'll run out of things to whine about

20:42:45 [FTL_Ian] Someone said, "I've got a great idea! Let's do liberal talk!"... then they realized there really aren't too many REAL talk hosts to choose from, so they threw some big name socialists behind mics.

20:42:55 [FTL_Ian] I haven't heard any of it, and don't want to

20:43:25 [JonM] fraken is a smart guy, does some funny bits, but seems a bit disconnected from reality

20:44:03 [JonM] after reading bias and arrogance, now I see why

20:44:05 [FTL_Ian] http://www.airamericaradio.com/shows/majorityreport/

20:44:11 [JonM] in his world, everyone really does think that way

20:44:28 [FTL_Ian] Look at that jackass with the bowtie. If that didn't SCREAM "boring", read the show description!

20:45:26 [JonM] when did jeanane become blonde?!?!

20:45:36 [JonM] learn something new every day

20:45:41 [PattyE] they look like a SNL skit

20:45:46 [FTL_Ian] By the end of this year I want Savage to know his days are numbered.

20:46:27 [PattyE] they might be numbered anyway... his blood pressure must be sky high

20:46:28 [FTL_Ian] These goofs on AA are just destined to fail.. what idiot programs this network?!

20:46:31 [FTL_Ian] "Singer and songwriter, Nellie McKay. She will talk about various forces that influenced the lyrics in her critically acclaimed debut CD, Get Away From Me."

20:46:34 [FTL_Ian] WHO CARES!

20:46:44 [JonM] someone with deep pockets if I recall

20:48:07 [JonM] I did hear the guy who wrote grandma got run over by a reindeer on air america

20:48:27 [PattyE] whatever you do... DON'T click on the "honeymooning in the Carribbean" link! ewww

20:48:28 [JonM] he was amusing, he's a vet, people kept calling in asking about their pets

20:50:46 [JonM] did you watch Tilt patty?

20:51:12 [PattyE] only a few minutes of it...

20:51:45 [PattyE] while some guy was getting beat up in an alley

20:51:54 [JonM] that was the end

20:52:00 [PattyE] yep

20:52:05 [PattyE] was it any good?

20:52:08 [JonM] its on...many more times

20:52:32 [JonM] why, in 8 minutes in fact!

20:52:39 [PattyE] i was busy creating the perfect cheesecake

20:52:56 [JonM] what of pie?

20:53:27 [PattyE] pie is for others... cheesecake is for...

20:53:39 [JonM] what? NO PIE?

20:53:45 [PattyE] lunch tomorrow!

20:54:10 [PattyE] what's wrong with a PERFECT ATK NY STYLE cheesecake????

20:54:28 [PattyE] the best one I have ever made... btw

20:54:59 [FTL_Ian] Alright, I'm out

20:55:07 [FTL_Ian] THanks for your help, guys

20:55:09 [FTL_Ian] good nite

20:55:10 [JonM] PIE

20:55:14 [JonM] night

20:55:32 [PattyE] night ian, great to chat with you

20:55:48 [PattyE] pie. pie. pie. pie. pie. CHEESECAKE.

20:57:05 [JonM] custard pie

20:57:21 [PattyE] you should make one!

20:57:41 [JonM] some day

20:57:47 [PattyE] how about apple pie for sunday?

20:57:51 [JonM] later

20:57:54 [PattyE] FSP Pie

20:58:17 [JonM] you're gonna make a porc topped pie?

20:58:19 [PattyE] if i can remember how to make a pastry porcupine...

20:58:25 [PattyE] lol

20:58:38 [PattyE] sure

20:59:17 [JonM] well then.

20:59:41 [PattyE] if reporters are there it may get it

20:59:56 [PattyE] it's picture in the paper

21:00:16 [PattyE] but how will i ever get home...

21:00:37 [JonM] go to work after

21:00:42 [JonM] then you'll be fine

21:00:55 [PattyE] well, guess I'll go give Tilt a try... while my perfect cheesecake is cooling

21:01:08 [JonM] besides, 495 is probably a better route to seabrook

21:01:27 [PattyE] is the best way

21:01:48 [PattyE] 111 is way too north

21:02:41 [PattyE] did you see the state of the state speech tonight?

21:02:44 [JonM] then you're all set

21:03:19 [JonM] nope

21:03:55 [PattyE] first time in a long time that I have watched it from another state