NH - Chat

NH and the FSP - Chat

This Thursday evening Nov 4, 2004 at 9pm ET, we have a panel of NH residents available to answer your questions about NH and the FSP. Please bring your questions and join our chat at freestateproject.org/chat. The NH residents include George Reich, Rich Tomasso, Jack Shimek and Fred Mitchell. Hope to see you there!

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

[21:13] <Kat> Tonight we have NH residents Fred Mitchell (freedomfred) from Nahsua

[21:14] <Kat> Jack Shimek (jaqeboy) from Amherst, NH

[21:14] <jaqeboy> I'm a native of Texas, Mechanical Engineer, have been in NH for 27 years

[21:14] <freedomfred> I've lived in NH for over 6 years now.

[21:14] <JonM> I've lived near NH for 10!

[21:14] <Kat> and Rich Tomasso (Rich_T) also from Nashua

[21:15] <Kat> Great, Jon...you can answer questions too :)

[21:15] <Rich_T> Hi! I've got a background in software and writing/editing. Done plenty of campaign and media work for the LP and others.

[21:15] <matthew> Jaqe, I'm in Texas and studying to be an Engineer.

[21:15] <freedomfred> When I relocated here, I had a choice between NH and MA -- well, the choice was pretty darn clear cut!

[21:15] <jaqeboy> Yay!

[21:15] <JonM> I can tell you how ugly route 3 looks during commute time

[21:15] <jaqeboy> go for it

[21:16] <Pat> how ugly is it?

[21:16] <Kat> it's not LA

[21:16] <matthew> How is employment for Engineers in NH?

[21:16] <freedomfred> I run a hosting service where I focus mostly on Libertarian-minded clientel.

[21:16] <Rich_T> it's so ugly people look for jobs in NH to avoid it. :)

[21:16] <JonM> http://www.smartraveler.com/scripts/bosmap.asp?city=bos&cityname=Boston

[21:16] <matthew> I'm attending UTSA now.

[21:16] <JonM> click on route 3 on there at about 5:30 tomorrow

[21:16] <jaqeboy> hmm, probably not that great

[21:16] <matthew> :(

[21:17] <jaqeboy> I dropped out and run a handyman/home repair biz right now

[21:17] <matthew> really?

[21:17] <Rich_T> Route 3 should be a lot better once they finished adding a lane each way.

[21:17] <Kat> Several members have started to work on a program to recruit businesses to move to NH

[21:17] <jnoyes> do you need help Ive got all my own tools

[21:17] <jaqeboy> but an old engineering client called me up and I'm doing some work for him again

[21:17] <JonM> they are widening it for all those NH commuters, but they're not being wise about it, only going to 3 lanes instead of 4

[21:17] <Johnson> ooh Rachel Mills is in here

[21:17] <jaqeboy> maybe

[21:17] <Kat> That may help job prospects in many areas

[21:17] <freedomfred> Rt 3 reall ugly -- especially with all the construction -- ugly south of the border, that is.

[21:17] <Johnson> Rachel... you rock..

[21:18] <JonM> when you hit the NH border on route 3 it goes from 2 lanes to about 5

[21:18] <adam> Any particular type of businesses?

[21:18] <JonM> and in a couple of miles right back to 2

[21:18] <Rich_T> doesn't go down to 2 until you leave nashua

[21:18] <JonM> luckily all the mall traffic gets off at the last exit in MA, #36

[21:18] <jnoyes> show of hands who is going to the 2005 porcfest

[21:18] <freedomfred> At that point, it's the Everret TPK, and traffic is tolerable on it.

[21:19] <adam> Where and when?

[21:19] <svillee> I plan to attend the 2005 porcfest

[21:19] <jnoyes> ~25th july

[21:19] <spike> Carol and I are going. - Dan McGuire

[21:19] * Rich_T raises hand

[21:19] <JonM> the mall in Nashua as a little corner cut out of the JC Penny, because that part of the land is in Massachusetts

[21:19] <JonM> and MA wanted to collect sales taxes because of it

[21:19] <adam> Will it be a three day event? What is the best day to attend if one can't be there for the entire event?

[21:20] <Pat> MY hand is up

[21:20] <Pat> can I put it down now?

[21:20] <spike> Saturday

[21:20] <jnoyes> not that I want to tank anyones B&B but my grandmother has a 1/2 acre near manchester NH I plan on camping

[21:20] <russellkanning> porcfest 2005 :)

[21:20] <freedomfred> What's up Pat?

[21:21] <Pat> oh nothing I was raisingmy hand for thrporc fest

[21:21] <jsorens> mary & i will be there of course :)

[21:21] <DubleQwik> Good Evening, All...

[21:21] <jnoyes> evening

[21:21] <freedomfred> Yes, be there.

[21:21] <Kat> I'll be at the next porcfest

[21:22] <jsorens> i have a question, a very specific one

[21:22] <Kat> If you have questions, just go ahead and fire away

[21:22] <jnoyes> oh yeah company is welcome on that little spot of land

[21:22] <freedomfred> I missed the 2004 porcfest much to my regret, but rather extraordinary events were taking place personally. Next year, I will definitely be there.

[21:23] <jsorens> do any of you know anything particularly interesting about new england college in nashua? i applied for a job there.

[21:23] <JonM> there's a college in nashua? <G>

[21:23] <jaqeboy> several

[21:23] <freedomfred> There's the Daniel Webster college

[21:23] <adam> I've thought about going.

[21:23] <Rich_T> I think it's mostly a business school.

[21:23] <JonM> c'mon, you know you want to teach at Dartmouth

[21:23] <freedomfred> and also Rivier -- both in Nashua

[21:23] <jaqeboy> don't knowanything particular about NEC, Nashua

[21:23] <JonM> bastion of free speech that it is

[21:23] <jnoyes> dummy question where is dartmouth?

[21:23] <jsorens> of course i do jon but ill take what i can get ;)

[21:24] <adam> Dartmouth is too liberal!

[21:24] <Rich_T> do you know where the campus is?

[21:24] <JonM> of course, and they need token non liberals

[21:24] <matthew> To those of you who have houses, would you mind sharing what your taxes actually cost you last year?

[21:24] * FTL_Ian points at the user count

[21:24] <Kat> cool, ian

[21:24] <jnoyes> good idea

[21:24] <freedomfred> Daniel Webster is mostly IT oriented. Rivier is mostly Nursing oriented, I believe.

[21:24] <jaqeboy> on Amherst Street

[21:24] <DubleQwik> Is the Free State Project actually moving towards realization?

[21:24] <Rich_T> Revier focuses mostly on liberal arts

[21:24] <jsorens> nec looks like a small liberal arts college, not terribly selective.

[21:25] <JonM> signups have picked up a bit of steam lately

[21:25] <Kat> Several people have moved. We're having an effect on NH already

[21:25] * Lindsey looks at the user count, claps at Ian

[21:25] <Lindsey> :-P

[21:25] <jaqeboy> Daniel Webster College is an aviation school mostly, but added IT, Fred

[21:25] <Mallory> Dartmouth is in Hanover, jnoyes

[21:25] <jnoyes> thanks

[21:25] <matthew> My wife asks "Do you actually have real seasons, or is there just a month of summer and cold for the rest of the year"?

[21:25] <adam> As an outsider I've noticed tremendous progress in the last six months.

[21:25] <Rich_T> clap for Kat too, she promoted the hell out of this chat.

[21:25] <JonM> heh

[21:25] <svillee> My property tax bill is $1352 for 2004

[21:25] <JonM> there was no spring this year

[21:25] <freedomfred> Ok, right. Forgot about that. After all, DW is right next to the airport in Nashua.

[21:25] <JonM> but we had several months of very nice summer

[21:25] <adam> Northern Maine has three days of summer and eight months of winter.

[21:25] <Adam_Selene> Wait for my code-word DubleQwik. When I give the codeword 'TANSTAAFL' the FSP revolution begins ;)

[21:26] <JonM> heck it was 70 last sunday

[21:26] <Johnson> So, I found this interesting...

[21:26] <Johnson> http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/house/

[21:26] <Johnson> take a look at VT

[21:26] <jnoyes> wow I looked at a 36000 house in harrisburg taxes were 3000 a year

[21:26] <Kat> I've seen two seasons here, since I moved in June

[21:26] <freedomfred> Taxes in Nashua are a bit steep -- I'm paying approx $5000 a year.

[21:26] <spike> Progress? The election results seem negative to me.

[21:26] <JonM> nashua and salem have the benefit of the retail businesses to offset their taxes, but then they go and have all those services

[21:26] <Kat> My taxes should be about $900

[21:27] <DubleQwik> LOL...Adam, I waited in the 70s for "the revolution" and then spent 20 years in the Army when

[21:27] <DubleQwik> the revolution faded away....

[21:27] <matthew> I think here a $140K house will be taxed ~4200/yr

[21:27] <Rich_T> johnson - Bernie sanders is a socialist, not an independent.

[21:27] <JonM> the revolution will not be televised, it will be streamed

[21:27] <JonM> and you can thank Jim Jeffords for a gallon of milk costing me $3 today

[21:27] <Johnson> Rich_T: I just thought it was interesting how 3rd party candidates dominated there

[21:27] <freedomfred> We *are* the revolution in progress

[21:27] <Johnson> and there only

[21:28] <jnoyes> speaking of revolution what specific bits of legislation will FSB for or against

[21:28] <jnoyes> fsp

[21:28] <Johnson> and seemingly in every county in VT

[21:28] <JonM> there 3rd party cause they're too nuts for the democrats

[21:28] <Johnson> seems like there is something to be learned there

[21:28] <jaqeboy> Jason, do you want us to check on anything at NewEngland College, Nashua?

[21:28] <Rich_T> VT does have a strong Progressive party and some other points of strength for 3rd parties.

[21:28] <Mallory> Tish

[21:28] <FTL_Ian> FSP does not support or oppose legislation

[21:28] <FTL_Ian> jnoyes

[21:28] <Johnson> Rich_T: how did they attain that I wonder?

[21:28] <Rich_T> I'm sure Hardy Macia could fill you in better though.

[21:28] <jsorens> each of the northern new england states has its own character... vt is independent & socialist-leaning, nh is independent and libertarian-leaning, & me is independent and populist

[21:29] <Mallory> I lived in VT...they weren't that nuts.

[21:29] <Johnson> that open mindedness to 3rd parties

[21:29] <jnoyes> okay the purpose is to get us there

[21:29] <JonM> MA is the bitch of the Democrats

[21:29] <jsorens> jaqeboy - not really, just wanted to find out any inside info if anyone had any...

[21:29] <jaqeboy> k

[21:29] <jnoyes> but what would the people in NH already there like to see changed or remain the same

[21:29] <Rich_T> depends on whom you ask.

[21:30] <jnoyes> who is here to ask, cus Im asking

[21:30] <FTL_Ian> Hopefully the ones who disagree with us will move away

[21:30] <svillee> I'm actually pretty happy with the way things are now.

[21:30] <freedomfred> The politics in NH is not your normal cup of tea -- which is a good thing in my book.

[21:30] <Mallory> That's nice, Ian, pushing people out of their state :-P

[21:30] <Kat> I'd like to see homeschooling laws loosened up

[21:30] <jnoyes> good what else?

[21:30] <JonM> the further north you go, the more people will seem to be live and let live

[21:31] <adam> Maybe we need to study the politics of Vermont to discover why third parties do well there

[21:31] <svillee> I guess we could dump that interest and dividends tax

[21:31] <JonM> well Jim Jeffords is an Independent, but was elected as a republican, and brings home pork

[21:31] <Rich_T> I think the biggest areas of support FSPers could find are: 1) school choice, 2) lowering taxes, 3) anything else that helps economic development but not turn NH into a strip mall.

[21:31] <freedomfred> I'm homeschooling my daughter again. She was in public school for a couple of months, but grew tired of it.

[21:31] <Kat> Great, Fred!

[21:31] <JonM> need to lower business enterprise tax if you want more businesses to move in

[21:32] <JonM> that's the grouse for companies in northern MA

[21:32] <Bramblecroft> I found the FSP website by searching on the key word "self-sufficiency" What does that term have to do with FSP?

[21:32] <Rich_T> Yeah, we could build a coalition to work on lowering the BET.

[21:32] <adam> business tax should be little or none

[21:32] <JonM> 8.5% is more than Mass charges

[21:32] <jnoyes> personally I like local business but am leery of walmart and trans-nat corporations

[21:32] <freedomfred> None is preferred.

[21:32] <svillee> Does MA have any equivalent tax?

[21:33] <JonM> heh

[21:33] <Rich_T> MA has a personal and business tax, plus a steep capital gains tax.

[21:33] <Kat> I think a lot of freestaters are interested in self sufficiency. There was a lot of talk about setting up a self sufficient community

[21:33] <JonM> there isn't much in Mass that's not taxed

[21:33] <freedomfred> NH also has a dividend tax, which is annoying.

[21:33] <jnoyes> is there one already if not Im starting one

[21:33] <Johnson> Bramblecroft: most FSP memebr are libertarians... you'd do well to read some materials at www.lp.org

[21:33] <JonM> clothes $175 or less per item...food that isn't prepared

[21:33] <JonM> can't think of anything else

[21:33] <matthew> How does the NH Food Tax work?

[21:33] <JonM> prepared foods 8%

[21:33] <JonM> no taxes on unprepared

[21:33] <Rich_T> eating out adds 8%

[21:34] <jaqeboy> It's a room & meals tax

[21:34] <jaqeboy> supposedly to tax the tourists

[21:34] <Bramblecroft> thanks, I will...

[21:34] <freedomfred> If you must work in Mass, they tax income at a 5.6% rate or so.

[21:34] <FTL_Ian> Mallory: no one is pushing people out of NH. Hopefully, they'll wise up and leave on their own, if they don't like the pro-freedom path.

[21:34] <matthew> ah, ok. I was worried it was on groceries. I couldn't believe.

[21:34] <svillee> So even with our existing B E tax, NH should still be attractive to MA businesses.

[21:34] <Johnson> oooh that sucks... I eat out a lot

[21:34] <JonM> 5.35% right now

[21:34] <jaqeboy> not on groceries

[21:34] <Lindsey> Yeah you do

[21:34] <Lindsey> :-P

[21:34] * Mallory pats Ian's head

[21:34] <Mallory> Okay

[21:34] <JonM> nah, I tried to get my business to move to NH, but the BET did it in

[21:35] <Rich_T> NH does have advantage business wise - no personal imcome tax or sales tax attracts workers.

[21:35] <FTL_Ian> Johnson, make your own meals. You do want to be a homeowner, right? Eating out eats right into your mortgage payments.

[21:35] <freedomfred> Lots of good restarunts in the Manchester and Nashua areas.

[21:35] <JonM> the MA income tax was supposed to drop to 5%...love our legislature, the best that money can buy

[21:35] <jnoyes> how much of NH's economic center is Boston?

[21:35] <adam> Florida has a 1% tax on all stock you own. And you pay it every year

[21:35] <Lindsey> Johnson...cooking...

[21:35] <Kat> not like San francisco restaurants though

[21:35] <Mallory> Johnson: Keep food at your house :-P. It's really not that expensive if you know how to shop correctly.

[21:35] <matthew> Are pre-packaged foods like Soda drinks and chips tazed?

[21:35] * Lindsey snickers

[21:35] <JonM> not just stock adam, net worth with exclusions afaik

[21:35] <Kat> I almost never go out to eat any more

[21:35] <Rich_T> We're #4 nationally for venture capital. Fewer licensing laws. I'm pretty sure the cost of living is less all around.

[21:35] <Johnson> I hate cooking

[21:35] <Mallory> Tish

[21:35] <jaqeboy> many people commute into northern Mass, some all the way into Boston

[21:35] <Johnson> mostly becuase I hate cleaning

[21:35] <Lindsey> Do you want me to come cook for you?

[21:35] <Lindsey> :-P

[21:35] <freedomfred> Some good ones as well just south of the border. You can pretty much find your favorite cusine without too much ado.

[21:36] <Kat> woo woo

[21:36] <Mallory> Yeah me and Lindsey will come cook for you, okay?

[21:36] <Mallory> :-P

[21:36] <Johnson> actually I shouldn't say I hate cooking

[21:36] <jnoyes> and ill do dishes ;)

[21:36] <Johnson> hahah

[21:36] <jsorens> matthew: soda & chips not taxed, but prepared sandwiches that you get at the supermarket are

[21:36] <jaqeboy> therewas a snack tax, right?

[21:36] <Lindsey> And I'm going to make your bed

[21:36] <Johnson> I like cooking a lot... I just hate cleaning

[21:36] <FTL_Ian> Johnson: microwave food

[21:36] <Lindsey> :-P

[21:36] <matthew> Thanks jaqe :)

[21:36] <Lindsey> Without extra stuff in it

[21:36] <Mallory> Well fine, we'll clean for you

[21:36] <Lindsey> :-P

[21:36] <JonM> MA meals tax is 5%

[21:36] <Mallory> I like cleaning

[21:36] <Johnson> Ian: GROSS

[21:36] <Mallory> Especially doing dishes

[21:36] <matthew> err. jsorens i eman

[21:36] <Mallory> It's very satisfying

[21:36] <Lindsey> Yeah, what he said

[21:37] <Lindsey> I do dishes quickly, but I also do them well

[21:37] <Johnson> I prefer things made via Toaster Over

[21:37] <Lindsey> I've never used a dishwasher

[21:37] <Johnson> *oven

[21:37] <JonM> heh

[21:37] <JonM> I can cook AND bake!

[21:37] * JonM grins

[21:37] <jnoyes> anyone know any good NH real-estate agents btw

[21:38] <Kat> so dinner at Jon's house?

[21:38] <jaqeboy> whatarea of the state?

[21:38] <freedomfred> My harem cooks for me. :-)

[21:38] <JonM> a few have posted to the forums

[21:38] <jnoyes> pot luck

[21:38] <Kat> I know a couple in the Keene area, jnoyes

[21:38] <jnoyes> coos, grafton

[21:38] <matthew> I was looking at a movers guide, and thoughout most of the state of NH it was cheaper to rent than it is here in San Antonio. however, when considering purchasing, the cost was much higher.

[21:38] <Lindsey> I'm just good at everything I do

[21:38] <Lindsey> :-P

[21:38] <Kat> Grafton yes

[21:38] <JonM> NH does not have the consumer protection laws that MA has for home buyers, so you will need someone to look out for you

[21:38] <jnoyes> explain "look out"

[21:39] <jaqeboy> there is Dave Walthour in Grafton

[21:39] <adam> Cheaper to rent than buy?

[21:39] <Mallory> Okay Lindsey *pats your head*

[21:39] <JonM> make sure the septic system is ok

[21:39] <JonM> things like that

[21:39] <jnoyes> gotcha

[21:39] <jnoyes> whats the soil like

[21:39] <JonM> In MA it's the law you must inspect your septic system before selling your house

[21:39] <jnoyes> lotta sand mounds out there

[21:39] <freedomfred> Depends on where you live.

[21:39] <Kat> Dave Walthour is pro-fsp and a really great guy

[21:39] <Lindsey> Oh you know it's true, Mal

[21:39] <jnoyes> okay where you live then

[21:39] <matthew> adam, yes. on a per year basis. according to homefair.com

[21:39] <svillee> The buyer should always get a full home inspection.

[21:40] <adam> Anyone familiar with Rochester, NH?

[21:40] <jaqeboy> I rent from another libertarian

[21:40] <jaqeboy> and rent a room out to a libertarian

[21:40] <JonM> heh

[21:40] <Mallory> Yeah I know, Lindsey :-P

[21:40] <JonM> rent it forward

[21:40] <jaqeboy> rite

[21:40] <Kat> George Reich couldn't get connected to the chat, but says Hello to everyone and would be willing to answer email questions. He's at greich@freestateproject.org

[21:40] <JonM> did he try a standalone client?

[21:40] <jaqeboy> he's in Rochester

[21:41] <Kat> Dover

[21:41] <adam> Thanks, matthew

[21:41] <jaqeboy> k

[21:41] * JonM knows the IRC

[21:41] <Lindsey> He could try the awful applet-ness on the Free Talk Live website...

[21:41] * Lindsey shudders at the thought

[21:41] <JonM> bah, just install mIRC, it's like a real IRC client

[21:41] <jnoyes> uhm arent I on that?

[21:41] <matthew> The applet wouldn't connect for me. Actually mIRC took forever too.

[21:41] <Rich_T> bersIRC works well too

[21:41] * Mallory pets mIRC

[21:42] <matthew> It tooks 9 tries.

[21:42] <Lindsey> Humm...odd

[21:42] <JonM> I run bersirc on EFNet, but it's a bit...buggy

[21:42] <Lindsey> Jesus

[21:42] <Lindsey> Humm...I've been connected all day with no problems...

[21:42] <Johnson> ian has craplet on his site... =)

[21:42] <jnoyes> hey speaking of internet whats the access like in the white mountains

[21:42] <Mallory> Yeah and I connected up all spiffy like

[21:42] <adam> Jaqeboy, who is in Rochester

[21:42] <matthew> Are the native NHers friendly to the influx of FSPers?

[21:42] <Mallory> Yeah, the one on the Taste of the Goods site is better

[21:43] <Lindsey> They both suck

[21:43] <Lindsey> :-P

[21:43] <jaqeboy> This native says "come on up"

[21:43] <Lindsey> How did I get on Ian's server again?

[21:43] <jnoyes> looking for a high power array like spokane washingtons got

[21:43] <jaqeboy> we need reinforcements

[21:43] <JonM> wow, I'm only .15 behind

[21:43] <Kat> I've not met anyone who was not friendly to freestaters. I usually tell people why I'm here, too

[21:43] <MichaelEdelstein> Hello, everybody.

[21:43] <JonM> you haven't met Kathy Sullivan yet!

[21:43] <adam> I'm interested in Rochester. Anyone from there?

[21:43] <jaqeboy> Geo Reich- actually Dover

[21:43] <Kat> Michael, you made it :)

[21:44] <adam> Thanks

[21:44] <Mallory> I don't know, Lindsey, you need to stop doing that

[21:44] <Lindsey> I do

[21:44] <Lindsey> Hehe

[21:44] <MichaelEdelstein> Yes, I had some visual problems.

[21:44] <Lindsey> I don't know how it happened

[21:45] <Lindsey> Stupid mIRC

[21:45] <Kat> Did you have questions about Rochester, Adam?

[21:45] <Lindsey> I have entirely too many windows open, and I'm getting confused

[21:45] <Lindsey> :-P

[21:45] <jaqeboy> is this a computer technology chat?

[21:45] <JonM> maybe some random people could message you

[21:45] <jaqeboy> never mind

[21:46] <Lindsey> Random people did message me

[21:46] <Johnson> hahahh

[21:46] <Lindsey> :-P

[21:46] <JonM> I remember

[21:46] <Lindsey> On like...three different servers

[21:46] <Mallory> No random people message me

[21:46] <Lindsey> Random people message me all the time

[21:46] * JonM is still sequential

[21:46] <Rich_T> a hazard of aol I guess.

[21:46] <Lindsey> Haha

[21:46] <Kat> Any more questions about NH?

[21:46] <matthew> For the last three years my wife has been begging me to move to the North East. I was adametly against it. After learning of FSP and NH's already libertarian/constitutional-ist tendancies, I am all for it. I am so excited about NH now.

[21:46] <Lindsey> I'm telling Daniel that you're my bitch, Ian...

[21:46] <Lindsey> :-P

[21:47] <Kat> Cool, matthew!

[21:47] <JonM> I like the cnn electoral map, it shows every state dark blue, and NH light blue

[21:47] <jaqeboy> come on up

[21:47] <freedomfred> Come on up!

[21:47] <Kat> I love it here, and I never thought I'd like the east coast

[21:47] <JonM> even when they go to the dark side, they don't go all the way!

[21:47] <Mallory> What's so wrong about the North East, man?

[21:47] <jnoyes> winter

[21:47] <matthew> Yankees! That's what's wrong

[21:47] <Lindsey> Winter is good

[21:47] <JonM> stay inside

[21:47] * matthew is in trouble now.

[21:47] <Lindsey> I love winter

[21:47] <Lindsey> It's my favorite

[21:47] <Kat> I thought people around Boston were supposed to be snotty to outsiders

[21:47] <russellkanning> matthew where do you want to move to?

[21:47] <JonM> some are

[21:48] <Mallory> You'll get used to winter rather quickly

[21:48] <JonM> but those aren't the same people

[21:48] <Rich_T> and the NH vote was a strange phenomenon this year.

[21:48] <Kat> But NHites don't seem to be that way

[21:48] <matthew> Havn't decided where yet, move is still 4+ years off (need to finish school)

[21:48] <freedomfred> The vast majority of Bostonians are cool.

[21:48] <Kat> (in finishing school?)

[21:48] <jsorens> the 'yankees' stereotype is applicable to people in and around new york city, and possibly boston as well. but not in the less urban areas.

[21:48] <JonM> I think half of eastern ma works for the city or state

[21:48] <freedomfred> A handful are somewhat annoying -- but you get that anywhere.

[21:48] <Kat> Haven't met any snotty people in boston

[21:48] <JonM> I'm positive half the voters do

[21:49] <freedomfred> They love their Red Sox, though.

[21:49] <adam> I find Bostonians better to deal with than New Yorkers.

[21:49] <Rich_T> well, yeah.

[21:49] <Mallory> I don't like either, personally.

[21:49] <MichaelEdelstein> Excuse me, Adam. I'm from Brooklyn.

[21:49] <jaqeboy> Boston's like a country cross roads compared to NYC

[21:49] <Lindsey> I love New York

[21:49] <Lindsey> Hehe

[21:49] <jnoyes> does anyone know of any local currency initives or LETS systems in NH(like Ithica hours)

[21:49] <Lindsey> NYC is my favorite place ever

[21:49] <JonM> boston, fun to drive in! funner to walk in!

[21:49] <Lindsey> Hehe

[21:50] <Pat> AS aNew Yorker I can say that almost every where I go people seem nicer

[21:50] <jaqeboy> There's a Time Bank network

[21:50] <adam> NYC is a nice, exciting place to visit

[21:50] <JonM> I was in boston on the day of game 1

[21:50] <jnoyes> where

[21:50] <matthew> Liberty Dollars is linked off of the FSP website.

[21:50] <jaqeboy> and the Monadnock Freedom Forum had a seminar on community currencies

[21:50] <Kat> George Reich is involved in some alternate gold currency

[21:50] <freedomfred> Quite frankly, I have NEVER had a problem with a Bostonian. I've had a couple of probems with some idiots in the Greater Boston area. But as a whole, most are cool.

[21:51] <Pat> I almost fell over in Keene this spring when a cop said "good mornning sir " to me.

[21:51] <matthew> http://libertydollar.org/

[21:51] <Kat> I believe you Fred...that's just what I was told before I got here

[21:51] <JonM> most individuals are nice, it's groups that cause problems

[21:51] <Rich_T> GoldMoney.com is run by a guy in NH.

[21:51] <Adam_Selene> What about e-gold? Anyone keen on that?

[21:51] <Kat> Keene police have been nice, ya

[21:51] <jnoyes> currency backed by gold is rather sketchysince the federal reserve managed to steal much of it all ready

[21:51] <jaqeboy> e-gold works

[21:51] <jaqeboy> used on ebay, etc.

[21:51] <JonM> better than backed by hope

[21:51] <Kat> They had that proposed law to pay NH employees with gold

[21:51] <MichaelEdelstein> Everyone I've met in my recent trips to NH has been nice.

[21:52] <jsorens> fsp accepts e-gold

[21:52] <Lindsey> Look! It's a saint!

[21:52] <adam> Kat, tell me a little about Rochester. Are there any colleges within 1/2 hr that offer eveining classes?

[21:52] <stpeter> heh

[21:52] * stpeter listens in

[21:52] <svillee> I have accounts with e-gold, e-bullion, goldmoney and pecunix. No problems with any of them.

[21:52] <Rich_T> adam - UNH Durham is within that distance.

[21:52] <freedomfred> On the police front -- Mass police are problematic. As are Nashua police. Concord police are cool, as are the State police.

[21:53] <Kat> I'd love to be able to tell you about Rochester, but I don't know. George Reich lives near there and has offered to answer questions. You could try him at greich@freestateproject.org

[21:53] <freedomfred> NH State police, that is.

[21:53] <jaqeboy> when more of you are up here, we'll have more critical mass for having a side money system

[21:53] <jaqeboy> whether gold, or lets, or whatever

[21:53] <Adam_Selene> anyone who wants to help me test my new account please send some e-gold to account number 1041461 ;)

[21:53] <jnoyes> do they have speeding/parking tickets in NH

[21:53] <MichaelEdelstein> Do they look the other way when confronted with pot smokers?

[21:53] <Kat> lol Adam

[21:53] <JonM> speeding yes

[21:53] <jaqeboy> parking tix yet

[21:53] <jaqeboy> yes

[21:53] <JonM> be careful on those on ramps

[21:53] <freedomfred> parking, yes, in the urban area.

[21:54] <adam> What is alternate gold?

[21:54] <jnoyes> kind of a conflict of interest dont you think

[21:54] <jaqeboy> comeup and help us restore the streets to the people

[21:54] <jnoyes> all in time

[21:54] <jaqeboy> right to travel, right to park, etc.

[21:54] <Lindsey> Why would they not have parking tickets?

[21:54] <Lindsey> Heh

[21:54] <jnoyes> I plan on running for office

[21:54] <Kat> The streets for the people!!

[21:54] <Mallory> I know, seriously

[21:55] <jaqeboy> because you pay for the streets once in taxes, and you have a right to use of the public ways

[21:55] <Bramblecroft> So the goal is 20,000 libertarians anywhere in NH? Not in a central place?

[21:55] <jnoyes> but not til I pay back my school loans and can actually make a living there ;)

[21:55] <freedomfred> I wouldn't do pot in Nashua. Outside of Nashua you should be ok.

[21:55] <Pat> Did any body have the thought that theNH state police might be um told to be on thelook outforout of state cars to ticket at the next porc fest compliments of the new govener?

[21:55] <Kat> anywhere in NH

[21:55] <Kat> Hi Stephen

[21:55] <Kurt2> wow lots of people

[21:55] <Kurt2> this is great

[21:55] <StephenBennett> Hey Kat! First time here.

[21:55] <Kurt2> I saw something on th FSP in the news

[21:55] <Kurt2> were any of you in there?

[21:55] <StephenBennett> You all forced me to install IE

[21:55] <Kat> :) nice to see you here

[21:55] <freedomfred> I'd have a hard time believing the NH state police would do that.

[21:56] <StephenBennett> so it took awhile

[21:56] <JonM> bramble: the goal is 20,000 activists, not just voters

[21:56] <Kat> The news where, Kurt?

[21:56] <JonM> spread out works better for activists, they are to convince others to vote for change

[21:56] * stpeter wonders if there are 20,000 activists for freedom on the whole planet ;-)

[21:56] <JonM> yeah, but they're dying in other countries

[21:56] <Kurt2> kat some clip on the internet actually

[21:56] <JonM> we're trying to head that off early

[21:56] <jnoyes> hey we are 6000 so far maybe we can sponsor immigrants

[21:57] <Pat> just a thought

[21:57] <JonM> we have a few

[21:57] <Lindsey> They're all from Red China

[21:57] <Lindsey> :-P

[21:57] <Kat> Was it a particular channel, Kurt?

[21:57] <StephenBennett> I've read about some people in France liking the FSP

[21:57] <stpeter> how about an exchange program with the Movemiento Libertario in Costa Rica?

[21:57] <Pat> some times Iam paraniod

[21:57] <Kurt2> kat can't remember

[21:57] <matthew> wow, 6000 in NH already?

[21:57] <Adam_Selene> I hail from 14,000 km away

[21:57] <JonM> 6000 signed up to move

[21:57] <Kat> Jason was in the Boston TV show

[21:57] <adam> Thanks for the info Kat. I'll contact George

[21:57] <StephenBennett> Don't know what their nationality is, but they were blogging about us

[21:57] <matthew> ah, signed up to move. i am one of those.

[21:57] <Rich_T> we could offer to swap a socialist in NH for a libertarian in another state. LIke an exchange program.

[21:57] <Kat> 311 in NH

[21:57] <JonM> yeah, about that hair Jason . . .

[21:57] <Kurt2> how many have confirmed moving? 60?

[21:58] <Kurt2> nice 311

[21:58] <Kat> great, Rich!

[21:58] <stpeter> ... http://www.libertario.org/en/

[21:58] <JonM> 311 includes those there pre-vote

[21:58] <Kurt2> on an article on the fsp site it says 51

[21:58] <Rich_T> if they trade houses, can probably have to tax consequence either!

[21:58] <Kat> about that, Kurt...more have actually moved

[21:58] <Kurt2> awesome

[21:58] <Kurt2> I'll probably move in the next few years

[21:58] <Kat> My daughter and I are two :)

[21:58] <Kurt2> I'm in Winnipeg right now

[21:58] <Kat> cool

[21:58] <Kurt2> I'm 24

[21:59] <Kat> lol

[21:59] <matthew> as I am i kurt

[21:59] <StephenBennett> My socialist "friend" here in NH are energized after Benson going down

[21:59] <matthew> for the next month and half anway.

[21:59] <StephenBennett> (I'm 24 too!)

[21:59] <matthew> my wife, and 2 kids will make 4 :)

[21:59] <JonM> he ddn't go down by much

[21:59] <adam> Did you all read the FSP article in the Washington Times, NWE two months ago. It was a entire page!!

[21:59] <jnoyes> Id say we take the long view

[21:59] <jsorens> the fsp was featured in a major french tv program recently

[21:59] <Kurt2> I'm single

[21:59] <Kat> Yeah, that article was great

[21:59] <Kurt2> I live with my brother right now

[21:59] <Kurt2> he's 20

[22:00] <JonM> NH's vote was split so down the middle the cnn map has almost no shading

[22:00] <JonM> only lower left with Keene

[22:00] <StephenBennett> (Kurt, I was kidding. 24 was long ago. But I'm single too!)

[22:00] <Kurt2> next election nh will go libertarian for sure

[22:00] <jnoyes> hey kat: what the male female split in FSP for those of us who are single?

[22:00] <svillee> I would think it would be easier for a French person to move to Andorra than to NH.

[22:00] <Kat> oh I was gonna say, Stephen!

[22:00] <MichaelEdelstein> We should start looking for a libertarian candidate for Governer.

[22:00] <adam> I was surprised that Benson lost. Hope the new residents can get him back in next time around.

[22:01] <Kurt2> I'm German

[22:01] <Kurt2> and Injun

[22:01] <JonM> benson was hammered on ethical issues

[22:01] <jsorens> i think andorra does restrict immigration tightly tho (as does monaco)

[22:01] <Kat> I'm not sure. I think it's about 60/40. I could do a partial survey

[22:01] <Adam_Selene> The research I've done on NH has left me a little disappointed I must say

[22:01] <JonM> tons of ads on boston TV and radio

[22:01] <adam> Trumped up!

[22:01] <MichaelEdelstein> Perhaps Badnarik will move here and run for Governor.

[22:01] <JonM> god knows how much was on NH tv and radio

[22:01] <svillee> More tightly than US?

[22:01] <Adam_Selene> NH seems to me to be very Conservative, not Libertarian at all

[22:01] <Kat> you have to be a resident for 7 years before you can run for gov

[22:02] <JonM> seems maybe, but isn't

[22:02] <JonM> no helmet law

[22:02] <jaqeboy> it is conservative, by tradition

[22:02] <MichaelEdelstein> In what way do you think it's conservative/

[22:02] <matthew> Consevative and Libertarian are not mutually exclusive.

[22:02] <jsorens> yeah, more tightly than the us, certainly for gaining citizenship - b/c theyre small, theyre very sensitive about any influx of people

[22:02] <Rich_T> Badnarik said he was looking at Gov of TX race.

[22:02] <StephenBennett> Folks, I took Craig's defeat pretty hard. I had some hope for the direction of the state, and am so far a little bit wondering if poeple are going to actually move here and make ther difference we all committed to

[22:02] <matthew> fiscally conservative

[22:02] <JonM> well, old style conservative not neo-con if anything

[22:02] <matthew> yeanot neo-con

[22:02] <jnoyes> yeah you should see what the gop uses as conviction statement too bad theyre leaders dont hold true to line

[22:02] <Rich_T> We are looking at some LPNH candidates already, for those who care.

[22:02] <jsorens> adam - no state is libertarian. that's the reason we need the fsp! but nh has some libertarian leanings, and is small enough to influence.

[22:03] <Kat> Funny story: riding with oldtimer NH resident...guy about 80...get to VT border, grumble grumble, seatbelt on. Then when we get back to NH border, seatbelt immediately goes off

[22:03] <JonM> NH has an ingrained political activity that makes many people willing to listen to other ideas

[22:03] <jnoyes> how is governer elected in NH

[22:03] <StephenBennett> Kat, it's the principle of it, not that it's smart. :-)

[22:03] <freedomfred> I think Craig's defeat was an abberation of the national politics.

[22:03] <JonM> popular vote, every 2 years

[22:03] <Rich_T> The Dems pulled out all the stops to win NH. Stuff no one here has ever seen.

[22:03] <Bramblecroft> Is there any particular area other than NH that has a high concentration of libertarians?

[22:03] <adam> Jason, I agree

[22:04] <Kat> The dems had so many people up from MASS

[22:04] <stpeter> Bramblecroft: Alaska?

[22:04] <jnoyes> representative or direct popular vote?

[22:04] <jaqeboy> direct

[22:04] <Rich_T> party membership follows the population spread of the state. I can check the old registration list for a wider sample.

[22:04] <Kat> Stephen, it really cracked me up

[22:04] <jnoyes> wow maybe we should go door to door

[22:04] <adam> Didn't NH have libratarians as their second party behind Republicans a number of years back?

[22:04] <jsorens> sry, didnt mean to confuse, my comment was directed to adam_selene :)

[22:05] <StephenBennett> Yeah, and I wonder about Benson going down, since this state was the only one that the exit polls were right about. And I heard about buses with voters (late registrants) in them. Would love to know if that is true. Anybody else hear of that?

[22:05] <JonM> if they don't get rid of fusion, should be possible to get people elected

[22:05] <stpeter> fusion is pretty key

[22:05] <Kat> just what you heard, Stephen

[22:05] <Rich_T> Tons of new voters this year. Yes, they were driving them to the polls.

[22:05] <JonM> straight ticket balloting is under attack too

[22:05] <Rich_T> I so hope we can get rid of straight ticket.

[22:05] <freedomfred> I had dem get out the vote people hitting my door virtually every day just before the election.

[22:05] <StephenBennett> Registered from where? I wonder if many are really living in Mass?

[22:05] <JonM> straight ticket helps fusion

[22:06] <MichaelEdelstein> I heard the Dems were voting early and often--no matter how long they'd been dead.

[22:06] <Kat> I had 3 phone calls from dems on election day

[22:06] <jsorens> sounds as if same-day registration needs to go, almost an open invitation to fraud

[22:06] <svillee> Why would they bus MA people to vote for NH governor? Why would MA people care who is governor of NH?

[22:06] <StephenBennett> Right, Jason

[22:06] <JonM> they have same day because they don't have motor voter

[22:06] <jsorens> ah, i see, another flouting of the feds eh? id rather make that tradeoff though...

[22:06] <JonM> sv: they've been alleged to bus in college kids to throw local elections

[22:06] <adam> Benson didn't lose by much and he will be a strong advocate for FSP

[22:07] <freedomfred> In NH, you can register right at the polls.

[22:07] <Rich_T> the allegeded MA voter in NH is for president, not governor, mostly.

[22:07] <adam> 30 days minimum.

[22:07] <StephenBennett> Well, when I was at a Debate, there were buses of Teamsters up from MAss, and they even brought up a large Tractor/Trailer

[22:07] <jsorens> they couldve just come to vote for kerry & then cast the straight ticket

[22:07] <JonM> same day registration is how Jesse Venture became governor of Minnesota

[22:07] <adam> ME too!

[22:08] <StephenBennett> And then hit a friend of mine (who was holding a Benson sign) on the head, bloody mess

[22:08] <svillee> Oh I see, so they can vote twice, once in MA and once in NH

[22:08] <StephenBennett> Not too much blood actually, but makes for good press

[22:08] <JonM> the problem is there were no ID checks in NH

[22:08] <Kat> oh did you know that girl?

[22:08] <JonM> you could just have a "neighbor" vouch for you

[22:08] <StephenBennett> Yes, I do

[22:08] <JonM> but then, I've never been ID'd in MA to vote either

[22:08] *** Bramblecroft (~Bramblecroft@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.nas12.columbus1.oh.us.da.qwest.net) has left #FSP

[22:08] <Kat> That was really ugly :(

[22:08] <StephenBennett> (She lived)

[22:08] <StephenBennett> :-)

[22:09] <jsorens> and nh was known to be a swing state, ma wasnt...

[22:09] <JonM> give address, give name, get ballot, vote, give address, give name, feed it to machine

[22:09] <adam> Good night, talk to you next time! Enjoyed this

[22:09] *** adam (~adam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.maine.rr.com) has left #FSP

[22:09] <StephenBennett> Well, my guess is that they voted both places

[22:09] <jsorens> i was id'ed in ct, and we dont have same-day reg either

[22:09] <JonM> at least they stopped posting the voting list outside the polling place

[22:09] <StephenBennett> Neither was I

[22:09] <StephenBennett> No signature was required either

[22:10] <JonM> in Florida I had a voting ID card

[22:10] <StephenBennett> No ID, no signature, no vouch

[22:10] <JonM> but I moved away before I ever voted in person

[22:10] <MichaelEdelstein> How influential is the taxpayer's assoc. in NH?

[22:10] <Rich_T> they keep trying to get a basic "show an ID" law in NH, but it always gets defeated. Maybe with all the stories of alleged voting irregularities it may have a push to get though.

[22:10] *** irc_chat is now known as SkippyBob

[22:10] <JonM> and we know what happens to military absentee ballots there

[22:10] <JonM> the problem is show an id is so anti-libertarian <G>

[22:11] <StephenBennett> Geesh, and we had a friend in Craig Benson. I seriuosly doubt the same treatment by Lynch

[22:11] <JonM> lynch has a republican state house to deal with

[22:11] <StephenBennett> Well, that's why we should be able to vouch

[22:11] <StephenBennett> and we should have more polling places

[22:11] <freedomfred> Personally, I like not having to show an ID, but anyone who abuses that should go to jail.

[22:11] <jsorens> lynch will not go out of his way to do anything for us, thats probably true. but he will be a weak gov, facing a repub legislature & exec council

[22:11] <StephenBennett> manned by people who know everyone

[22:11] <jaqeboy> Michael, there are 2 good powerful state-wide taxpayers groups

[22:12] <JonM> and just 2 years, though I believe Benson holds a record as the first first term governor seeking re-election to be defeated

[22:12] <jaqeboy> and many local city or town groups

[22:12] <StephenBennett> Yes, but Dave Wheeler (closet Libertarian) got defeated at the Exec Council too

[22:12] <JonM> most of the politcs that affect you in NH occur at the town/city level

[22:12] <StephenBennett> By a dem

[22:12] <jnoyes> hey a little polling: could you guys state what you dont like about the independent, green, and constitution parties

[22:12] <stpeter> JonM: I think the last one was in 1952 or something

[22:12] * stpeter googles

[22:12] <MichaelEdelstein> jageboy: In which cities are the two groups based?

[22:13] <StephenBennett> My brother said that the Constitutionalists got a big showing in UTAH

[22:13] <freedomfred> Darn -- I like Dave Wheeler. He came to the Parents Rights March in DC back in 98 or 99.

[22:13] <StephenBennett> (he lives in Salt Lake City)

[22:13] <Kat> Cool stephen

[22:13] <StephenBennett> Right Fred. Good guy, liberty oriented

[22:13] <Rich_T> Wheeler also helped out someone with a gun permit even though he lived outside his district.

[22:14] <JonM> 6168, count is going up today

[22:14] <jaqeboy> Coalition of New Hampshire Taxpayers, President Ed Naile, Deering

[22:14] <jaqeboy> http://www.cnht.org

[22:14] *** Mallory (Mallory@xxxxxxxx.ipt.aol.com) has left #FSP

[22:14] <JonM> maybe 7000 by dec 31 isn't a pipe dream after all

[22:14] <jaqeboy> Granite State Taxpayers, was Roy Stewart, President, ? town

[22:14] <StephenBennett> Jon, like you said, the local politics matter most. That's the bummer (results from the elections)

[22:14] <MichaelEdelstein> Thanks, j'boy.

[22:15] <freedomfred> I think many who got kicked out this time around will have a good chance to get back in in two years.

[22:15] <JonM> stephen: the real stuff happens in the spring, if you have town meeting that's better

[22:15] <jsorens> some of the worst statists got kicked out too, apparently

[22:15] <MichaelEdelstein> Does anyone know what city the Granite State Taxpayers are based in?

[22:15] <StephenBennett> Yeah, but I can tell you the Craig's going back to business

[22:15] <jaqeboy> will try tofind out Michael

[22:15] <stpeter> "first challenger since 1926 to defeat a first-term governor seeking reelection in New Hampshire" ... source: http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2004/11/03/governor_challenger_declares_win_in_nh/

[22:15] <StephenBennett> (after the good ole boys habded him his ass)

[22:15] <StephenBennett> handed

[22:15] <MichaelEdelstein> Thanks, jboy.

[22:15] <JonM> it was what, 13,000 votes?

[22:16] <jsorens> there is also citizens for a sound economy, they are strong in bedford

[22:16] <JonM> all people there to give NH to kerry

[22:16] <JonM> didn't CSE walk away from the bedford branch?

[22:16] <MichaelEdelstein> Jason, Does CSE focus on NH issues?

[22:16] <jsorens> yes

[22:16] <JonM> I recall some sort of riff

[22:16] <jsorens> you may be right jon

[22:17] <jsorens> i just know the bedford cse guy posts on the fsp forum occasionally

[22:17] <JonM> CSE was fighting tooth and nail on some shady school votes

[22:17] <StephenBennett> I hear that Goiv Benson really pissed off Concord (the legislature olf timers) and they worked for his defeat

[22:17] <stpeter> CSE is a national organization with local affiliates

[22:17] <MichaelEdelstein> Great! Do you know of any of their NH accomplishments?

[22:17] <JonM> I do believe bedford students still go to manchester <g>

[22:17] <stpeter> MichaelEdelstein: I don't, no

[22:18] <Rich_T> CSE did stop a bond issue or tax increase last year in a special election.

[22:18] <StephenBennett> And I was also bummed to see the Contitutional amendment go down, especially in light of the recent S.C. "rulings"

[22:18] <StephenBennett> Constitutional

[22:18] <Rich_T> the voter guide on Q1 got pulled, which hurt it's chances to reach 67% needed.

[22:18] <StephenBennett> (Even though we got 60K votes more than "no")

[22:18] <Anon4815> Michael, just one quick GST item: http://www.politicsnh.com/press_releases/2004/Oct/10_21por.htm

[22:18] <stpeter> were there local elections in NH this year? I have not seen coverage of them

[22:19] <JonM> But now, according to a statement from the national headquarters of Citizens for a Sound Economy, the Bedford group has lost its affiliation with the national parent organization, due to its focus on local issues in Bedford and the consequent exclusion of CSE?s national agenda.

[22:19] <jsorens> heres an item from bedford cse: http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=44;action=display;threadid=6247;start=msg91381#msg91381

[22:19] <MichaelEdelstein> Thanks, anon.

[22:19] <stpeter> ah, who needs national parent organization?

[22:20] <Rich_T> Derry also has a good taxpayers group.

[22:20] <jaqeboy> Nashua Taxpayers Association - NTA

[22:20] <JonM> national CSE is no more

[22:20] <JonM> it's merged with Empower America

[22:20] <MichaelEdelstein> Rich, do you know their name?

[22:20] <StephenBennett> Hey, Jason, I know you must get this q a lot, but anyway . . . How are the recruiting efforts going?

[22:20] <JonM> better than before, not as good as it could be

[22:20] <StephenBennett> (And what can I do besides signing up the 5 people I have)

[22:21] <Rich_T> derrytax.org

[22:21] <MichaelEdelstein> Stephen: get the word out, inform others.

[22:21] <FTL_Ian> Stephen: I can answer. They just jumped.

[22:21] <FTL_Ian> Let's keep them rising.

[22:21] <MichaelEdelstein> Thanks, Rich.

[22:21] <Rich_T> isn't there a recruiting chat coming up?

[22:22] <Kat> Yes, next week

[22:22] <Lindsey> If anyone cares, I wore a Badnarik sign on my butt on Monday all day at school to make an attempt at advertisement

[22:22] <Lindsey> :-P

[22:22] <jsorens> well, recruiting is still below where it needs to be. we are trying new things, such as a direct mailing to mass libertarians, and possibly a radio campaign in maryland.

[22:22] <JonM> stephen: get the url tattooed on your forehead!

[22:22] * FTL_Ian laughs

[22:22] <Kat> hello!

[22:22] <jsorens> website traffic has increased significantly over the past couple of weeks, and signups have increased some too

[22:22] <StephenBennett> Hey, I have to take a telephone call for awhile (from the West Coast). Will be back in a few . . .

[22:23] <FTL_Ian> jsorens: FSP ads run during Free Talk Live, worldwide.

[22:23] <Lindsey> People were amused by the fact that I had the word BADNARIK on my ass...

[22:23] <Lindsey> Yes...terrible FSP ads

[22:23] <Lindsey> :-P

[22:23] <FTL_Ian> I'm writing a new one

[22:23] <Kat> a tattoo, Lindsey?

[22:23] <FTL_Ian> :P

[22:23] <MichaelEdelstein> How's contributions, with the new messages on the website?

[22:23] <jsorens> writing lte's, posting flyers, handing out brochures at events, and talking to friends are still extremely effective ways of getting the word out that don't cost (much) money

[22:23] <stpeter> is The Quill still being published?

[22:23] <JonM> jason: I tried to recruit Barbara Anderson, of Citizens for Limited Taxation and Government...no luck so far, she hasn't given up on MA yet

[22:23] <Lindsey> Oh Jesus...who's doing the recording for the new one?

[22:23] <jsorens> yes, the quill is coming back! it was in hiatus for a couple of months as the editor moved to nh.

[22:23] <jnoyes> can we make FSP bumper stickers?

[22:23] <FTL_Ian> I highly suggest all porcs call all their prospects again, post election, and ask them to join again.

[22:24] <Lindsey> No, not a tatto, just a piece of paper taped to my pants

[22:24] <Lindsey> :-P

[22:24] <stpeter> jsorens: super!

[22:24] <FTL_Ian> You'll be shocked at your success rate.

[22:24] <Lindsey> Tattoo, either

[22:24] <freedomfred> I'll have to give some thought to how to reach Libertarian-minded folks on line using SEO techniques.

[22:24] <jsorens> contributions were very good in our recent campaign. we have a decent amount in our bank account for ads, press releases, & mailings

[22:24] <JonM> I don't ever recall getting anything that would suggest they sold their mailing list though

[22:25] <jsorens> obviously, doing radio & tv seriously would require us to take fundraising to the next level.

[22:25] <Lindsey> I kind of like Ian's terrible FSP spots

[22:25] <JonM> jason: nah, you just need to be arrested in a tremendous scandal, plenty of TV and radio coverage then

[22:25] <stpeter> I think the thing that will really start to pull in recruits is some practical, on-the-ground results in NH (even of a preliminary nature)

[22:25] <Lindsey> :-P

[22:25] <FTL_Ian> Lindsey, I didn't write them

[22:25] <Lindsey> I just love Free Talk Live, because I'm a dork

[22:26] <JonM> hey karl

[22:26] <MichaelEdelstein> stpeter: we've had a few.

[22:26] <jsorens> no publicity is bad publicity, right? ;)

[22:26] <Kat> hi Karl

[22:26] <Lindsey> Oh you didn't write that horridness?

[22:26] <stpeter> bbiab

[22:26] <Lindsey> :-P

[22:26] <Karl_Beisel> Hi folks.

[22:26] <jaqeboy> hey Karl

[22:26] <Lindsey> Well they were still likeable in that awful way

[22:26] <Lindsey> Lol

[22:26] <freedomfred> Hello

[22:26] <jsorens> well i gotta go. nice chatting with you all!

[22:26] <Lindsey> But it would make it better of you wrote them

[22:26] <Lindsey> :-P

[22:26] <MichaelEdelstein> Bye, Jason.

[22:26] <Kat> 'night Jason

[22:26] <JonM> exactly jason, and that would have legs, "Yale professor and founder of the Free State Project arrested at local farm in questionable circumstances, more at 11"

[22:27] <Lindsey> if*

[22:27] <Lindsey> Jesus...someone should cut off my hands

[22:27] <jsorens> 'night

[22:27] <FTL_Ian> goodnight

Liaisons Workshop

Liaisons Workshop - Chat

This Tuesday evening 11/16/04, we will be holding a Liaisons Workshop. We will be discussing ways to interact with liaison target groups. Please bring your questions and ideas and join us at freestateproject.org/chat at 9pm ET. Hope to see you there!

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

17:45:14 [katdillon] The transcipts of previous chats are up on the website

17:45:28 [katdillon] http://freestateproject.org/getinvolved/chat-workshops/

17:51:16 [katdillon] Hi Chris

17:51:58 [clhfreeguy] This is Chris Harrison, I will try to obey net etiquette and be pleasant and polite

17:52:35 [clhfreeguy] Hi Kat, how are you?

17:52:54 [queuetue] Hi, Chris.

17:53:17 [katdillon] I'm great, thanks

17:53:22 [katdillon] Chris, I can

17:53:36 [katdillon] can't imagine you being other than polite

17:53:52 [katdillon] sorry, can't type that well tonight I guess

17:54:19 [clhfreeguy] Who is queuetue?

17:54:59 [PatK] Hi Kat and all

17:55:02 [queuetue] Scott Russell. (Free Software liaison)

17:55:09 [katdillon] Hi Pat

17:55:50 [queuetue] Howdy, Pat.

17:56:07 [katdillon] Hi Chris

17:56:20 [clhfreeguy] Has Jean arrived yet?

17:56:24 [chrisL] Hi there!

17:56:48 [RussellK] Jean came and went

17:56:55 [katdillon] She was here earlier, and said she'd be back

17:57:49 [MiclEdlstn] Hi everyone!

17:57:51 [katdillon] If anyone wants Jean's ideas and options for liaisons, I can send the file to you

17:57:53 [RussellK] hello

17:58:02 [katdillon] Hi Michael

17:58:18 [katdillon] Hi Jean

17:58:25 [PatK] hi Michael and Chris

17:58:31 [Jean] Hello

17:58:41 [MiclEdlstn] Hi Pat!

17:58:49 [clhfreeguy] Jean is scheduled to be the first presenter, Hi Mike, Hi Russell, Hi Chris L, Hi Pat

17:59:01 [chrisL] Hello Pat, Kat & the rest

17:59:18 [RussellK] how about intros of sorts?

17:59:27 [queuetue] So ... am I the only non-regular? (I feel like I've been missing other meetings. )

17:59:33 [Jean] Can we introduce ourselves and our community when we get a chance?

17:59:36 [RussellK] Russell Kanning (truckers liaison)

18:00:07 [Jean] Really?

18:00:37 [Jean] Is there a strong libertarian thread in truckers ... or are you making one?

18:00:45 [RussellK] oh yes

18:00:54 [Jean] Jean Alexander (Homeschooling)

18:01:01 [RussellK] almost all of them hate the government

18:01:02 [Jean] (and alternative schooling)

18:01:07 [RussellK] or at least the DOT

18:01:10 [RussellK]

18:01:12 [clhfreeguy] Hi all this is Chris Harrison, Coordinator of Liaisons, welcome to all of you and thanks for coming we will start with Jean Alexander who is going to share what she has been doing with home schooling and other things Jean please go ahead

18:01:15 [katdillon] If you haven't received Jean's Liaisons Ideas, you can read it here: http://www.soulawakenings.com/liaisons_ideas.txt

18:01:21 [Jean] cool Russell!

18:01:47 [katdillon] I'm Kat Dillon, Volunteer Support Director for the FSP

18:02:01 [Jean] If you haven't read the document I prepared it pretty much outlines

18:02:13 [Jean] what I do and what Evan Nappan has been doing with gun rights.

18:02:35 [Jean] One of the mosts useful thing I do is participate in several different email lists

18:02:40 [Jean] related to homeschooling.

18:02:50 [Jean] I use my FSP signature line and that gets comments.

18:03:06 [Jean] There are regular postings about conflict with various government

18:03:23 [Jean] agencies that give me a great opportunity to introduce FSP

18:03:54 [Jean] I've started my own FSPHomeschooling list and that's a great place to

18:04:04 [Jean] brainstorm about liberty issues

18:04:19 [Jean] I don'twant to use everyone

18:04:34 [Jean] 's time going over the document. Has anyone read it by chance?

18:04:41 [PaulT] hi

18:04:50 [queuetue] * queuetue has.

18:05:06 [katdillon] Hi Paul

18:05:19 [katdillon] Here's the document she's referring to: http://www.soulawakenings.com/liaisons_ideas.txt

18:05:29 [Jean] Queuetue - did you find it useful?

18:06:01 [clhfreeguy] Hi Paul, we have started and Jean is telling us what she has been doing to effectively recruit in education and in gun rights Chris

18:06:10 [Jean] My overall approach has been to

18:06:24 [Jean] actively participate in my community

18:06:38 [Jean] raise the topic of FSP whenever there is an opportunity

18:06:59 [Jean] I avoid being too forceful ... don't want to be seem as a spammer!

18:07:09 [queuetue] Jean, yes, in parts related to action, but no, in relation to motivation. I got this role primarily because it was mentioned you needed one - I asked about it, and was granted Free Software Liaison. I'm honored, but ... I'm not sure what my actual *role* is - to teach FSPers about Free and

18:07:20 [Jean] More proactively, I'm working on two essays which I hope will be published

18:07:21 [queuetue] open software, or to bring F/OSS people to the FSP...

18:07:51 [PaulT] the point is to bring free/open software people to the FSP

18:07:52 [RussellK] I think you can do just like Jean

18:07:55 [matthew] I was wondering why no one was in the FSP room over on freetalklive. i guess it helps when i read directions.

18:07:57 [matthew] hello all.

18:08:07 [katdillon] queuetue, the idea is to introduce members of your community to the FSP

18:08:13 [PaulT] hi

18:08:19 [RussellK] be active and noticable in your world and answer questions about the FSP

18:08:25 [katdillon] hi matthew

18:08:51 [matthew] evening kat.

18:09:01 [PatK] when all else fails foloow the directions

18:09:05 [chrisL] Do we raise the topic of FSP in NH?

18:09:17 [mrdthree] How 'bout we delegate internet stuff to other members of our community

18:09:51 [Jean] I'm back

18:10:01 [katdillon] chris, the idea is to recruit people outside NH to move.

18:10:14 [Jean] I'm curious what others have tried. I think some of what we

18:10:21 [Jean] do may be specific to our communities.

18:10:21 [queuetue] BTW, how many of us here are currently NH reidents?

18:10:34 [Jean] I'm actually looking for a couple of folks to work with me

18:10:34 [mrdthree] No

18:10:35 [katdillon] mrdthree, I'm not sure I understand your question

18:10:40 [Jean] Education is a *big* area.

18:10:43 [mrdthree] Not NH resident

18:10:45 [chrisL] Resident

18:10:57 [katdillon] chrisL, RussellK and myself have moved to NH

18:11:02 [matthew] not YET

18:11:15 [mrdthree] I am a Boston MA resident though

18:11:18 [queuetue] (Resident - but by birth, not intentional action. )

18:11:27 [MiclEdlstn] Nonresident.

18:11:28 [katdillon] matthew

18:11:40 [cneufer] Not yet

18:11:43 [clhfreeguy] We have had some problems with FSPers becoming too political in NH. We can do most anything as individuals in NH but the FSP itself cannot be political in NH Chris H

18:12:08 [PaulT] who is/are the homeschool/private school liaisons? a friend of mine is doing a research paper on alternative education that might be useful

18:12:14 [queuetue] clhfreeguy, can you explain that a little more?

18:12:34 [katdillon] Jean is, though I'm interested in homeschooling too

18:12:42 [cneufer] Why not? (be political)

18:12:55 [PaulT] ok, anyone who's interested, can you give me your emails?

18:13:12 [MiclEdlstn] The FSP has no function in NH.

18:14:09 [chrisL] So, any liason work I do from NH would probably be done "outside" NH

18:14:24 [katdillon] Yes ma'am

18:14:29 [queuetue] So, the FSP is a tool to aggregate Free-thinkers, and ceases to be involved after serving that function?

18:14:34 [chrisL] by mail, phone, email

18:14:47 [katdillon] Paul, you can send it to me if you like.

18:14:58 [katdillon] Yes, queue

18:15:12 [MiclEdlstn] The FSP is like an interstate bus bringing people to NH.

18:15:19 [mrdthree] If the FSP succeeds the FSP will be around long after teh goal is met!

18:15:20 [clhfreeguy] Yes, our mission is defined, we are to move 20000 folks into NH We are 501C tax group if we become political we can get into trouble. More than that we just want to get the folks up there then Kady bar the door then we will get very political and through the political process we will be very po

18:15:20 [katdillon] I'll get it to Jean, Paul

18:15:33 [mrdthree] recruiting is a continuous thing I would think

18:15:53 [MiclEdlstn] Once it arrives in NH, it simply turns around and brings more from other states.

18:15:56 [katdillon] yes mrdthree

18:15:57 [PaulT] k, will do when she's done

18:16:09 [clhfreeguy] beomce political animals and free the state of NH.

18:16:10 [jean] I'm back

18:16:26 [jean] Maybe chats are just not Mac friendly ?

18:16:39 [queuetue] jean

18:16:43 [PaulT] by the way, is there currently a liaison to the wiccan, pagan, and/or discordian communities?

18:16:47 [queuetue] using safari, or firefox?

18:16:55 [cneufer] You must be a 501(c)(3)--you can devote 20% to lobbying

18:17:12 [clhfreeguy] Jean do you have more to add at this point?

18:17:28 [jean] Safari ... now on 1.2.3 'cause 1.1 is buggy

18:17:44 [jean] Hi Chris

18:17:44 [matthew] try firefox

18:17:46 [katdillon] there is a pagan liaison

18:17:59 [jean] One thing I wanted to mention is that NH matters,

18:18:00 [katdillon] here's the whole list http://freestateproject.org/getinvolved/liaisons/

18:18:06 [clhfreeguy] Hi Jean

18:18:08 [jean] at least in the case of homeschooling

18:18:21 [jean] The barrier I run into often is that the homeschool rules in NH

18:18:27 [Detroiter] Hi y'all- I'm new to this chat room biz...

18:18:36 [jean] are worse than most people are used to

18:18:38 [PaulT] okay

18:18:47 [PaulT] because I've been doing a fair amount of outreach to a local wiccan group

18:18:53 [jean] Not every community will have that problem of course.

18:18:53 [katdillon] Hi Detroiter. If you have any questions, just fire away

18:18:58 [PaulT] I'll have to look them up

18:19:11 [jean] I am working on writing to well known education folk

18:19:15 [MiclEdlstn] How do we decide if an interest of ours rates as an appropriate liaison group?

18:19:15 [katdillon] Great, Paul

18:19:26 [jean] such as Gatto and Albert and soliticiting, politely, endorsements

18:19:36 [katdillon] Michael, you can talk to Chris Harrison about it

18:19:41 [clhfreeguy] Hello Detroiter, we are discussing methods of recruiting into the FSP, presently Jean Alexander is presenting

18:19:48 [MiclEdlstn] What's the criteria or definition of a Liaison Group?

18:19:56 [Detroiter] OK, I'm the liason to the aviation community, but ain't done squat.

18:19:58 [PatK] how about the transgendard Amish is there a liason for that?

18:20:09 [katdillon] lol Pat

18:20:12 [chrisL] What if I have an interest, but don't know where to start?

18:20:19 [MiclEdlstn]

18:20:42 [jean] Start with my document ChrisL

18:20:44 [PaulT] michael: what group do you want to be a liaison to?

18:20:56 [chrisL] OK

18:21:03 [katdillon] ChrisL, just ask one of us and hopefully we can help

18:21:06 [jean] Use what you can, try different things

18:21:07 [queuetue] Detroiter, welcome to the club - (official done-squatters)

18:21:30 [jean] Another thing I do is do an internet search on education issues

18:21:39 [katdillon] Here's jean's document, for those who just came in: http://www.soulawakenings.com/liaisons_ideas.txt

18:21:41 [jean] about once a week

18:21:58 [chrisL] I just don't want to make some calls & come off like an idiot

18:21:59 [jean] I send interesting articles to the forum, email lists, etc.

18:22:02 [mrdthree] Is there any way to measure results for liaisons?

18:22:18 [jean] I reply to publications (LTEs) with support or disagreement

18:22:29 [clhfreeguy] If you have an interest in working with the Liaisons please talk to me at harrisonchiro@bellsouth.net we want to talk about recruiting tonight

18:22:33 [jean] always using the FSP website etc.

18:22:38 [mrdthree] Im not looking for competition just want to know what strategies work

18:22:56 [katdillon] The only way we'd know results is if we got people signing up saying that they heard of the FSP through X liaison group

18:22:57 [jean] Results - well I know I've gotten people to look at the website and check us out

18:23:27 [jean] And people might not give us credit. They might say "email list" or "website"

18:23:39 [queuetue] Liaison is a funny word for what is being described here ... 'liaison' means 'promoter' or 'recruiter'? I thought it was more of a bridge role, not a recruiting role... (not sure if I'd be very good pushing stuff on people. )

18:23:42 [PaulT] honestly, I'd kind of like to be told if someone signs up and lists some activity of mine as what recruited them

18:23:51 [MiclEdlstn] PaulT> I noticed some FSPers are gradualists and some are abolitionists. Perhaps each could have a liaison group.

18:24:00 [clhfreeguy] Our hooking up signers to our work in liaisons has not been as well defined as I would like and we are working on that

18:24:01 [katdillon] I publish a list of where people who've just joined heard about the fsp every week on the forum

18:24:12 [cneufer] I have sent out an email to our membership & so far one has responded and looked at your site & is considering joining/moving

18:24:19 [PaulT] like speaking at the NORML conference as drug reform liaison, or the ads we placed on a couple video game servers and video game community liaison

18:24:26 [katdillon] http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=25;action=display;threadid=8333

18:24:49 [jean] Recruiting is an interesting topic. We're asking people for a big commitment

18:24:58 [katdillon] that's great, cneufer

18:25:06 [jean] I think for many it take some time to take the leap

18:25:12 [RussellK]>[queuetue] just do what come natural to you with the oss world

18:25:15 [jean] If we seed the idea we're doing our part

18:25:19 [mrdthree] Thanks Kat I saw that page Does anyone have date information like you have reasons?

18:25:29 [Detroiter] Kat, I love that list of where people heard of FSP...great resource!

18:25:33 [jean] If we catch them closer to the decision making point that's great too.

18:25:51 [mrdthree] At least you could look for temporal correlations with things you do

18:26:01 [katdillon] mrdthree, do you need the exact date for some reason?

18:26:05 [cneufer] This is from North Ohio NORML

18:26:19 [mrdthree] I am doing mass emailings to college students and I want to know

18:26:24 [katdillon] the list I post is always sign ups from the last week

18:26:25 [mrdthree] if there is a change

18:26:31 [jean] mrdthree - I agree that is a good exercise

18:26:46 [jean] I did the first big signup analysis in January.

18:26:46 [clhfreeguy] I would entertain most any area for liaisons but if it is too small an area or too far out it just wouldn't be worth setting up. However, you show me results like siging up 5 new members and I'll set up in moon birdwatching

18:26:53 [cneufer] Thanx, Kat, I am trying to get as many people as possible interested. We have your literature at our NORML store here in Ohio.

18:27:00 [mrdthree] Id like to get hte raw data from the membership curves if anyone has it

18:27:08 [jean] Just from looking at the data you can see spikes around certain events

18:27:09 [katdillon] excellent!

18:27:31 [clhfreeguy] Kat are you ready to share with us your recruiting methods?

18:27:41 [queuetue] What gets sold in a NORML store?

18:28:00 [PaulT] hey, I just noticed someone did sign up from our counter strike ads! w00t

18:28:10 [cneufer] I could also get something in our local LP newsletter if you would like.

18:28:14 [RussellK]

18:28:18 [MiclEdlstn] clhfreeguy> Chris, if I come to you with five members, then you'll make it an official FSP Liaison Group?

18:28:18 [katdillon] No. I just want to do a brainstorming session on how to reach your target liaison audience

18:28:29 [katdillon] which is what Jean has been talking about

18:28:59 [RussellK] MiclEdlstn> if you bring in 5 you are a FSP hero

18:29:08 [cneufer] We have our NORML t-shirts, hats, coolies, coffee cups, hemp products, incense, books, hippie stuff, etc.

18:29:08 [clhfreeguy] OK great why don't you pose some questions that can get us started on that?

18:29:12 [katdillon] So let's just bounce around some ideas for reaching your group

18:29:38 [katdillon] What are the best ways to communicate to your groups?

18:29:45 [MiclEdlstn] RussellK> I'm referring to five who are already FSP members.

18:30:06 [RussellK]

18:30:22 [PaulT] w00t, 6 signups from our counterstrike ads, I'm feeling proud

18:30:35 [PaulT] plus a couple people from theagitator

18:30:39 [clhfreeguy] OK Liaisons, lets focus in on recruiting and open it up to solid, practical ideas that you have found to work

18:30:47 [PaulT] do I get a golden porcupine yet?

18:30:55 [RussellK] you the man pault

18:31:01 [chrisL] What if I'm already new to my community, should I write a formal letter of introduction?

18:31:08 [katdillon] sounds like you've earned one Paul

18:31:46 [PaulT] well, as far as recruitment in groups that aren't strictly libertarian, I find that a somewhat general message of freedom that's not offensive gets interested people to look into it more

18:31:48 [Detroiter] Best way to communicate...example, Libertarians- FSP placed ads in their papers & sent speakers to their meetings.

18:32:00 [RussellK] chrisL> what exactly do you mean?

18:32:08 [PaulT] if you're too pushy up front, people will be down on you and discourage others from joining

18:32:13 [cneufer] Good going, Detroiter

18:32:22 [katdillon] One way of reaching the audience that seems like it would be hugely effective is what Evan Nappen just did: got an article published in a gun rights magazine

18:32:33 [PatK] I don't know about aporcupine Paul but Iwill buy ya a beer at porc fest

18:32:34 [queuetue] I've made an attempt to get popular F/OSS individuals to carry the torch, but unfortunately, the paragons of my sphere, while interested in the FSP, charge for appearances/support events. Dissapointing to discover those feet of clay...

18:32:41 [PaulT] but if you have a general and positive message, then people who are interested will look more in depth and some will join

18:32:42 [katdillon] Do most of your liaison communities have periodicals published?

18:32:51 [jean] Agree Kat -

18:32:54 [Detroiter] cneufer- Not my doing, just my observation.

18:33:22 [cneufer] Oh--OK

18:33:38 [chrisL] I just mean that I'm new to the FSP, and new to liason work & will probably be doing some more research

18:33:39 [katdillon] ChrisL, are you thinking about being an anti war liaison?

18:33:50 [clhfreeguy] Well, ok here is one: read the editorials in the newspaper. There are often passionate replies. It almost like this chat room and many people get involed and thousands read them. Prepare a well done, sensible piece that solves the problem with FSP membership.

18:33:57 [chrisL] yes Kat

18:34:01 [jean] Even not community based periodicals could be considered too

18:34:40 [cneufer] Has anyone asked if NORML would put you as a link on their web site? We could possibly put it on ours: http://northohio.norml.net

18:34:41 [MiclEdlstn] chrisL> Where do I sign up?

18:34:53 [katdillon] What you could start out doing is joining in online communities/email lists related to anti war efforts and begin talking to them about the FSP

18:35:16 [RussellK] chrisL> one idea is just being active in your community and being a good representative of the FSP

18:35:24 [katdillon] You could also attend anti war events in Mass, or Maine, etc

18:35:31 [katdillon] and hand out FSP literature

18:35:37 [katdillon] which you get from here:

18:35:42 [RussellK]

18:35:52 [katdillon] http://freestateproject.org/getinvolved/downloads/

18:35:59 [cneufer] Russel, I agree. And I do hand out literature (in our store).

18:36:34 [jean] Make a community trifold!

18:36:38 [chrisL] this is good

18:36:43 [cneufer] We are also a member of our local Chamber of Commerce (active in our community)

18:36:49 [jean] The gun rights one is on the downloads page now

18:37:00 [katdillon] If you're active in an online community, you can use your email signature with the FSP url to get people's interest

18:37:04 [jean] The education/homeschooling one will be up in the next day or two

18:37:15 [katdillon] Oh that's great Jean!

18:37:32 [katdillon] Make FSP literature specific to your group

18:37:34 [queuetue] Those that have done active recruiting ... does proximity to NH make a difference in how effective your message is? (Mainers might consider NH to be a sunny vacation spot, whereas those from Georgia may consider it uninhabitable tundra)

18:37:38 [PaulT] anyways, I have to go

18:37:45 [PaulT] this was very motivating

18:37:50 [RussellK] cneufer> handing out in your store is cool

18:37:50 [PaulT] thanks!

18:37:52 [katdillon] great idea, cneufer

18:38:01 [katdillon] Thanks for coming Paul

18:38:12 [Detroiter] I did a flyer for aviation community, but didn't get any feedback- now needs an update anyway.

18:38:14 [jean] I think it depends on how important liberty vs. weather is to the person'

18:38:22 [MiclEdlstn] I've been active in the local San Francisco LP. I've spoken to the members about the FSP.

18:38:31 [jean] I would have happily moved to Alaska so I can't relate to that particular objection

18:38:31 [clhfreeguy] In addition to what Jean has done with homeschooling, peruse Evan Nappen's site on 2nd amendment rights he is dynamic

18:38:46 [jean] Unless someone has arthritis or something ...

18:38:52 [katdillon] queue, it does seem like it would be easier to recruit from areas close to NH. People are used to the weather and don't have as far to move. I came all the way from TX!

18:38:53 [RussellK] queuetue> if they believe in freedom they will come

18:39:12 [chrisL] I moved from the west coast & wasn't really sure right away!

18:39:19 [jean] LOL RussellK

18:39:20 [queuetue] Detroiter, I run http://www.rsvpair.com - if you get something aviation-and-FSP related, I'd be happy to drive some traffic your way.

18:39:23 [katdillon] Michael, that brings up an idea: speak at events related to your community

18:39:33 [cneufer] Kat, thanks for sending me the reminders of these chats--first time I've had a chance to attend since on Thursdays I attend Ohio Patient Network Paltalk meetings.

18:39:38 [RussellK] Detroiter> could you post your flyer idea to our liaison yahoo group?

18:40:05 [Detroiter] Har! I took Jean's comment to mean importance of liberty vs. "watching paint dry".

18:40:13 [cneufer] That is the medicinal marijuana org here in Ohio. Maybe I should send them some infor too?

18:40:24 [RussellK] I came from CA

18:40:39 [Detroiter] Sure, Russell, but I'd like to update 1st as new pilot laws just passed.

18:40:41 [MiclEdlstn] Kat, how about speaking at local LP groups, no matter what liaison group you're with?

18:41:06 [katdillon] Yes Michael, always an excellent recruiting idea

18:41:19 [RussellK] Detroiter> we can comment and help edit out typos

18:41:34 [katdillon] Here's the liaisons yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSP-Liaisons/

18:41:55 [chrisL] I guess a person needs to be outgoing & willing to speak to groups of people to be a liason...

18:42:22 [Detroiter] OK, I'd post it now but the file is at work.

18:42:30 [cneufer] I am

18:42:32 [RussellK] not every liaison will do public speaking

18:42:38 [katdillon] chris, I could see doing it only online even while being reserved. You don't have to do the public speaking or anything

18:42:56 [clhfreeguy] Michael, if you have speaking abilities, speaking before LP and other freedom groups is great and you can just talk on the FSP

18:42:59 [MiclEdlstn] chrisL> Not necessarily. You could delegate the public speaking to others.

18:43:22 [katdillon] whatever you do is going to be more than what was being done without you, so just do what you're comfortable with

18:43:31 [chrisL] I don't mind, I'm just trying to figure out what the role entails

18:43:57 [Detroiter] cneuf- where are you (and the store) located relative to Toledo?

18:43:58 [katdillon] chris, It seems to be what you make of it

18:44:10 [RussellK] chrisL> anything positive is good

18:44:11 [chrisL] thanx Kat! That's a nice thing to say

18:44:12 [jean] Speaker's group can help with speakers if necessary

18:44:26 [jean] Find people who are interested to work with you ... etc.

18:44:45 [queuetue] ... And why is the "NH picture" on the FSP website a sugarbush, when it's obviously apple season?

18:45:00 [cneufer] Interesting you asked, since I just spoke a couple weeks ago at the new University of Toledo NORML chapter (they are great kids!).

18:45:02 [katdillon] That's true Jean, if you need a speaker, contact Phil Denisch pdenisch@freestateproject.org

18:45:09 [cneufer] We are about 2 hours from there.

18:45:23 [chrisL] I guess the first thing to do (for me) is to research my community of interest

18:45:33 [katdillon] Haha, would anyone but you know that, queue

18:45:46 [RussellK] chrisL> can't hurt

18:46:10 [cneufer] Detroiter, we are about 50 minutes south of Cleveland

18:46:11 [chrisL] and make some friends

18:46:23 [MiclEdlstn] cneufer: Was there any interest in the FSP?

18:46:56 [queuetue] katdillon: Ayuh, most anyone who grew up playing with old "live free or die" license plates.

18:46:56 [mrdthree] In my efforts to talk to libertarian college clubs I have found that there is more awareness of the FSP than interest in joining

18:46:58 [Detroiter] cneufer- We're neighbors! Toledo is as close for me as Ann Arbor, and I go to their LP stuff at times.

18:47:03 [katdillon] and since it's something you're already interested in, Chris, it'll be fun getting involved in the community

18:47:12 [mrdthree] The main question I get from student is about jobsa nd schools

18:47:20 [katdillon]

18:47:32 [mrdthree] just a thought if anyone has a comment

18:47:32 [cneufer] I did not speak about FSP at the University--but that is a good suggestion. I will send your infor to Chris, who is heading that group, OK?

18:47:32 [jean] Some of the obstacles we run into are found by all involved in recruiting

18:47:44 [cneufer] OOps, I meant "info"

18:47:51 [clhfreeguy] ChrisL first go to the list of liaisons and see if there is a community there that interests you. If not like I said if you have an interest and you can show us that it has potential we can set you up as a liaison leader. We want serious people getting in and doing it

18:48:00 [jean] I need to work on that "obstacles to joining and their solutions" document!

18:48:28 [MiclEdlstn] cneufer> Fine!

18:49:14 [katdillon] here's the liaison list again : http://freestateproject.org/getinvolved/liaisons/

18:49:54 [chrisL] I am serious, but I want to be educated & not walk into something that I'm not equipped for

18:49:56 [clhfreeguy] Thanks, Kat

18:50:18 [katdillon] What kind of conferences/events are going on in your communities that you might attend?

18:51:02 [katdillon] chrisL, most of us are totally new to activism and winging it

18:51:03 [clhfreeguy] Good question

18:51:22 [jean] Thanks Kat. Maybe we can do this again next month?

18:51:41 [chrisL] LOL

18:51:54 [katdillon] Yes ma'am. If anyone wants to set up a chat specific for their liaison community, I can set that up

18:52:27 [chrisL] I appreciate to positive reinforcement

18:52:32 [katdillon] or we can certainly have another general liaison chat like this if it would be useful to y'all

18:53:13 [clhfreeguy] How about, gun shows, tax issue groups, religious freedom groups, informed juries groups, honest money groups etc

18:53:25 [chrisL] after my research, I might have some more question

18:53:27 [jean] ChrisL - First think, don't worry. Just try different things. Read my doc, email other liaisons!

18:53:33 [katdillon] good ideas clh

18:53:45 [Detroiter] I think this chat was "on target", & enjoyed it!

18:53:47 [chrisL] OK Jean

18:53:52 [RussellK]

18:53:52 [mrdthree] before y'all go, anyone know where can I get in detail membership stats esp. dates?

18:53:54 [jean] Oops, First thing ...

18:53:54 [katdillon] So would people want another general liaison session like this?

18:54:38 [mrdthree] If someone has something to present it may be useful

18:54:40 [katdillon] mrdthree, I will get you that info, just email me.

18:54:42 [jean] mrdthree - the database is considered confidential but I can get you dates and numbers of signups

18:54:48 [mrdthree] like jean did this time

18:54:48 [jean] Yes Kat

18:55:14 [mrdthree] thanks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

18:55:14 [Detroiter] Kat- That'd be fine. Perhaps we should all try something new, so we can report what works.

18:55:22 [cneufer] I am an experienced activist, and will help out when I can

18:55:25 [chrisL] I would be interested

18:55:30 [katdillon] Great idea, Detroiter

18:55:47 [jean] mrdthree - email me at jalex@hand-off.com

18:56:02 [katdillon] cneufer: awesome. We can always use experienced help

18:56:14 [jean] I also think regular meetings gives us deadlines of sort to try and report on new things

18:56:25 [jean] brainstorm with eachother, etc.

18:56:53 [cneufer] jean--yes

18:56:57 [RussellK] 1 hour a month could be very helpful

18:57:00 [jean] I've got to go now though

18:57:02 [katdillon] I will set up another chat about a month from now, then

18:57:24 [chrisL] It would give me a type of goal

18:57:40 [cneufer] Nice meeting you all, gotta go. Maybe you could start these sessions at 8:00?

18:57:40 [clhfreeguy] I promised to wind up at 10:00 EST, so before you all leave, thanks so much for coming and sharing, it was great to see so mcu input and questions. If anyone needs to get in touch with me re:Liaisons, I am at harrisonchiro@bellsouth.net.

18:57:45 [MiclEdlstn] Bye, Jean. Thanks for all your suggestions.

18:57:59 [katdillon] Tuesday December 14th?

18:58:19 [chrisL] thanx all

18:58:21 [mrdthree] bye thanks

18:58:32 [katdillon] good night Jean. Thanks!

18:58:46 [ct236] Hey! Where's everyone going! I just got here!!!!

Chat with Jason

Chat with Jason

Come chat with Jason Sorens, Free State Project Founder and Chairman of the Board this Wednesday (9/15) evening at 9:00 pm EST. This will be the first in a series of chats which will alternate between Q&A sessions with FSP leaders and activist training/brainstorming sessions. Upcoming training sessions will include:

• Starting a local group
• Effective communication techniques
• Effective meetings, and how to increase attendance
• Recruiting techniques for individuals: internet, Letters to the Editor, talk radio

Free State Chat
9:00 EST Wednesday, September 15th 2004
chat.freestateproject.org (go to "Training" chatroom)

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

20:43:27 [erickson77] hello

20:43:42 [katdillon] Hi

20:43:54 [erickson77] how are you tonight?

20:44:12 [katdillon] Great! Glad you could make it

20:44:35 [erickson77] thanks, i just got off work. 10 hours as cashier heh

20:45:08 [katdillon] Ouch!

20:46:27 [erickson77] hi scott

20:46:38 [katdillon] Hi

20:46:43 [scottfree] hey, all

20:47:31 [katdillon] hi michael

20:48:01 [erickson77] alright

20:48:11 [erickson77] to stay in this chat or to call my girlfriend before it's too late, hah

20:48:16 [erickson77] hmm..

20:48:20 [M.Edelstei] Hi Kat, Dave, and Erickson!

20:48:30 [erickson77] hey there

20:49:41 [M.Edelstei] Excuse me, folks. I came early just to grab a seat. I'll be back in a few minutes.

20:50:02 [scottfree] Im looking forward to meeting some of my possible neibors

20:50:29 [scottfree] this early thing could be fun

20:50:53 [erickson77] hopefully

20:51:00 [erickson77] i wish there was more activism

20:51:20 [scottfree] anyone here near south carolina

20:51:26 [katdillon] So are you thinking about moving to NH?

20:51:28 [erickson77] Boston here

20:51:42 [scottfree] yes

20:51:47 [scottfree] me?

20:51:48 [erickson77] i'm moving, almost certainly, if we reach 20,000

20:51:49 [katdillon] Keene, NH

20:52:08 [erickson77] i'll be out of college by then

20:52:14 [erickson77] and i can start a career in NH

20:52:14 [scottfree] I think I might

20:52:45 [katdillon] Would love to hear your ideas on activism

20:52:46 [scottfree] I gave my word that i would

20:53:17 [erickson77] activism, i.e. outreach to get more members and more popularity!

20:53:38 [katdillon] Yes

20:53:53 [erickson77] i've started with a bumper sticker ;

20:54:03 [erickson77] : heh

20:54:13 [katdillon] Scott, I'd be interested in hearing what impediments you have to moving

20:54:18 [katdillon] Great!

20:54:25 [erickson77] meant to do a wink face, it didn't work out

20:55:02 [scottfree] Well, kat. I'll miss the south.

20:55:04 [katdillon] Saturday I'll be down in Boston for the NORML thing in Boston commons

20:55:16 [erickson77] yeah, i really want to catch that too, kat

20:55:16 [scottfree] Thats the main thing

20:55:23 [katdillon] I can understand that. I moved from Texas

20:55:35 [erickson77] i have a day off work on sat for that

20:55:55 [katdillon] We'll have a table set up. Do come by

20:56:08 [scottfree] my sis is in NY though

20:56:10 [erickson77] i heard volunteers were needed?

20:56:21 [katdillon] Always

20:56:29 [erickson77] well, for the rally in general, not for FSP

20:56:39 [erickson77] willing to help

20:56:49 [katdillon] That's great, Scott. Have you ever visited NH?

20:57:11 [katdillon] Cool

20:57:28 [erickson77] NH is absolutely beautiful

20:57:48 [katdillon] Oh yes!

20:57:51 [scottfree] nah Kat im looking forward to it though

20:58:33 [katdillon] I recommend attending the annual porcupine festival next year. It was awesome this year!

20:58:40 [scottfree] maybe next time we get together

20:58:58 [scottfree] freedom fest

20:59:34 [scottfree] ill be there

20:59:44 [katdillon] Great

21:00:02 [scottfree] im saving vacation time now

21:00:11 [katdillon] It was such an experience being around so many freedom lovers

21:00:44 [scottfree] Im embarased i missed it

21:00:59 [katdillon] Hi Tom

21:01:11 [scottfree] hey, parker

21:01:32 [tparker] Howdy

21:02:12 [M.Edelstei] Hi, Tom. It's great to finally meet you in person!

21:02:16 [katdillon] Hi doug

21:02:34 [katdillon] No need to be embarrassed, scott

21:02:35 [doug] Am I at the Free State Project?

21:03:23 [katdillon] Yep, you got the right place

21:03:28 [jsorens] howdy!

21:03:36 [katdillon] Hi jaskug

21:03:39 [katdillon] Hi Jason

21:03:45 [jaskug] greets

21:03:46 [doug] Who is our Fearless Leader, tonight?

21:03:55 [M.Edelstei] Hi Jason.

21:04:10 [jsorens] i guess im supposed to be, but im pretty cowardly

21:04:15 [katdillon] Jason Sorens

21:04:15 [jsorens]

21:04:26 [jsorens] hi michael

21:04:27 [katdillon] Hi Dave

21:04:34 [cneufer] Is this the FSP chat room?

21:04:42 [katdillon] Yep

21:04:43 [jsorens] you've got the right place

21:05:06 [DaveM] working?

21:05:06 [cneufer] Is there no audio?

21:05:06 [jsorens] so lets get started; let's do this as a q&a

21:05:28 [jsorens] why dont we start in the order of people on the right side? alpha order by username

21:05:33 [M.Edelstei] Hi Dave.

21:05:35 [katdillon] Sorry, no audio at this time. We're working on it

21:05:49 [jsorens] please let fly with any & all questions relating to the free state project, & ill answer as best i can

21:05:53 [cneufer] OK

21:06:08 [jsorens] (and i apologize for this annoying format - we do plan to upgrade, possibly get audio & a better interface)

21:06:33 [cneufer] You could use PalTalk like we do for our meetings

21:06:39 [doug] I don't have working speakers, so no audio is fine by me

21:06:41 [jsorens] so the first person up is cneufer

21:07:00 [katdillon] Thanks cneufer, I'll look into ti

21:07:02 [katdillon] it

21:07:04 [DaveM] hi Kat

21:07:17 [jsorens] ive used paltalk before, it's good

21:07:25 [cneufer] Hello-I am the President of North Ohio NORML and a member of FSP--hoping to move sometime in the future

21:07:25 [katdillon]

21:07:49 [DaveM] Hi Michael

21:07:51 [M.Edelstei] Jason, an issue came up whether the FSP should be focused in NH or just outside of NH. What are your thoughts?

21:08:14 [cneufer] PalTalk is OK even if you don't have speakers because you can still just type if you want to

21:08:51 [jsorens] well, i was thinking of sticking to alphabetical order by username for questions, but we can do this the anarchic way too

21:09:03 [jsorens] so ill take dr edelstein's question

21:09:06 [doug] I'd like to hear feedback on successful recruiting techniques for individuals. In fact, that's the key reason I joined this forum, tonight.

21:09:08 [scottfree] Im wondering were is everyoneHey mike

21:09:41 [jsorens] the fsp is obviously focused primarily on recruiting liberty-oriented individuals to move to nh

21:09:53 [jsorens] for that reason most of our activities will be focused on publicity outside nh

21:09:57 [jsorens] however,

21:09:57 [cneufer] We have information (printed) at our NORML store for people to take

21:10:19 [jsorens] it helps recruiting to be able to point to favorable developments & fsp successes within nh

21:10:36 [jsorens] so our role in nh is, as i see it, primarily informational

21:11:02 [jsorens] to get the word out about the interesting & exciting things free staters who have moved are already doing in their adopted state

21:11:24 [M.Edelstei] Please elaborate on the informational.

21:11:30 [jsorens] if you have any followups michael feel free to throw them in

21:11:34 [jsorens] ok

21:11:37 [timba2112] I'll take a shot at a question. I'm the Chicago/Milwaukee Coordinator. We've had a two well attended meetings, but my skills seem to be limited in regards to getting help from local members. Any "aggressive" ideas for encouraging involvement?

21:11:56 [katdillon] doug> Tonight was mostly a Q & A session. I'm not sure how indepth he can get into your question. You're welcome to email me about it if he isn't able to answer it thoroughly. bookish_lass@yahoo.com

21:12:20 [jsorens] one example is a new website touting the benefits of nh - this will be a graphically/visually oriented webpage with photos of families who've moved, their stories in their own words, etc.

21:12:26 [erickson77] Jason, i've got a question. prompt me when you're ready to take it

21:12:41 [jsorens] its a way of putting a human touch to the fsp & giving the 'soft sell,' particularly to people who are interested especially in quality of life issues

21:12:58 [jsorens] i think it would be great to bring some of the spirit of the porcupine freedom festival to our primary recruiting tool, the web

21:13:11 [jsorens] ill take timbas question next

21:13:50 [jsorens] the first part of setting up a local group is to contact every fsp member & friend in your area. you can do this first by sending emails, and then followup phone calls

21:14:07 [M.Edelstei] Does this mean that activist groups within NH should use monikers not containing "FSP" in them?

21:14:08 [jsorens] i recommend holding meetings at fun places & coordinating some kind of fun activity to go along w/ them

21:14:30 [jsorens] the southern california group has had great success in doing outreach at homeschooling events

21:14:47 [jsorens] successful activism gives people in the group good feelings, & theyre more likely to continue to participate

21:14:51 [amanda42] how to set up local groups - lots of info here: http://www.freestateproject.org/community/localgroups/guidelines.php

21:14:56 [jsorens] at the same time, one should expect that the group will start small

21:15:16 [jsorens] the key is to have a regular line of communication, regular meetings, & gradually people will show

21:15:29 [jsorens] certainly thats been the experience of the dallas-fw group & the mid-atlantic group

21:15:33 [jsorens] thx for the link amanda!

21:16:09 [jsorens] i think erickson77 is next - go for it!

21:16:17 [timba2112] The meetings have been "fun" dinners, but I've neglected the follow up calls....so that'll be next on the list.

21:16:21 [erickson77] I believe there should be some kind of systematic involvement within the 6,000+ FSP-members already dedicated to move. what can we do to get everyone more involved and active, spreading the word and such.

21:16:21 [erickson77] amandas link sorta answered my question, but here it is

21:16:45 [erickson77] instead of just passively sitting back

21:16:45 [FTL_Ian] Question on "new website"

21:17:12 [jsorens] thats a big question! activating the activists is key to our success, & weve tried a number of things

21:17:24 [jsorens] one of them is the activist activator that kat, who is here tonight, has set up

21:17:41 [jsorens] it allows volunteers to set up their own tasks & then have people sign up for the ones they wish to participate in

21:17:49 [jsorens] then volunteers give progress reports over time

21:18:07 [jsorens] i think this great tool can be improved in some ways - it can definitely be made more prominent for fsp members

21:18:26 [erickson77] thanks Jason!

21:18:29 [jsorens] and possibly an email alert going to everyone signed up on the AA when a new task is added would help

21:18:52 [jsorens] finally, the forum has an activist center that has worked reasonably, but it is (of course) limited to those whove decided to sign onto the forum

21:19:12 [jsorens] ill take michael edelstein's followup now

21:19:51 [jsorens] i think groups doing charitable activities or political action (ie, stuff not related to the fsp's core mission of recruiting people to move) should not use fsp in their name; at the same time,...

21:19:53 [M.Edelstei] Does this mean that activist groups within NH should use monikers not containing "FSP" in them?

21:20:17 [jsorens] we have groups in nh dedicated to welcoming fsp members & prospectives and showing them around the state - that is a core part of the fsp mission

21:20:51 [jsorens] yes, thats right - activist groups shouldnt use the fsp name, in nh or elsewhere - if someone started a 'free state project party' for example, that would be a problem

21:21:33 [jsorens] i should elaborate a bit on the reason for that

21:21:58 [jsorens] the fsp is an umbrella organization - we have people committed to a common political philosophy, but not necessarily a single political or cultural strategy

21:22:36 [jsorens] so any particular activist group pursuing a particular strategy shouldnt use the fsp name, as that would imply that all free staters *have* to endorse their strategy, but the fsp should be too loose for that

21:22:56 [M.Edelstei] "Elsewhere"? In San Francisco, we call ourselves the Northern California Local FSP Group. Should we change this?

21:23:24 [jsorens] absolutely not - youre not an activist group (in the sense im using the term - a political party or charity not related to the fsp mission)

21:23:59 [jsorens] activist groups dedicated solely to welcoming fspers, fsp publicity, etc, should certainly use the fsp name!

21:24:55 [jsorens] i dont want to imply, either, that we carefully watch this or anything, or that you have to get permission before forming a group, or whatever! my view is - do first, ask questions later

21:24:58 [M.Edelstei] This clarifies some issues raised on the Message Board. Perhaps these guidelines should be posted somewhere.

21:25:21 [doug] For those of us born yesterday: Is the "FSP" as it relates to NH kinda of like the "Republic of Texas" concept?

21:25:56 [jsorens] i would say that in most ways the fsp is very different from the republic of texas. here are my reasons...

21:26:26 [jsorens] first, the republic of texas is a political action group supporting secession - the fsp doesnt take a stand on secession, and different free staters have different views on that as well as other issues

21:27:06 [jsorens] second, the republic of texas has worked outside the law, trying to set up a separate, parallel government, & certain factions have even used violence. i think these strategies are extremely dangerous,

21:27:46 [jsorens] and the fsp actually expels anyone who publicly advocates organized violence as a solution to political change (fortunately, weve only had to use that once or twice that i can recall!)

21:28:05 [FTL_Ian] Not sure of the mechanics of this chat yet.. so here are the questions: Jason- Will this "new website" also have the updated 101 reasons? And do you want to reveal the URL?

21:29:13 [jsorens] its going to be part of the current fsp website; my suggestion was to replace the current nh info page with the new page, and link the old nh info page (which is mostly dry statistics and links) at the bottom of the new page

21:29:14 [doug] So what is FSP like?

21:29:21 [jsorens] but well have to see what adam comes up with

21:29:36 [jsorens] there will be some reorganization of the navigation as well, to make it a little more 'wieldy'

21:29:48 [jsorens] glad you asked, doug!

21:29:56 [amanda42] sorry, but i need tp jump in on the 101 reasons 'cause i'm working on some edits/changes - jason, let me know when you're ready to field that question

21:30:20 [jsorens] oh, actually i dont know about the 101 reasons so you can take that one amanda

21:30:25 [jsorens] ill continue to work on dougs answer

21:31:08 [cneufer] So, just because we are also a member of an activist group, I would think we should still be welcome to FSP. Most people, whether Libertarian or a drug reform group, etc. are the ones that are intersted in FSP. I understand that we do not use our organization as an FSP (can't think of what word to

21:31:37 [jsorens] the fsp is a movement of people who agree to the basic premise that the government should at most be concerned with punishing people who violate the rights of others, and fspers are committed to moving to nh to help build a freer society around that principle

21:31:39 [cneufer] use here, but many of these organizations have the type of people that would be interested.

21:32:02 [jsorens] essentially, we go by different names: 'libertarians,' 'voluntarists,' etc., but the idea is - small government, free markets, rule of law, individual liberty, toleration

21:32:20 [jsorens] once we get to nh, we pursue whatever strategies we individually think are best to promote those goals

21:32:44 [jsorens] some of us are libertarians, some are republicans, a few are constitutionalists, and there are even a few free-market greens

21:32:46 [cneufer] OK, so can we promote FSP within our organization?

21:32:59 [katdillon] Yes!

21:33:07 [jsorens] we dont require fsp'ers to join any party, just to indicate that they plan to move to nh within the next several years

21:33:15 [amanda42] 101 reasons is an awesome document, but with several grammar/style/content edits underway to perfect it. michelle d is working on the final touches. when it is done, we plan to promote the 101 reasons BIG TIME. it will be prominent on the web, we'll have a bunch of little booklets printed, etc.

21:33:29 [jsorens] we absolutely work with activist groups to help publicize the fsp

21:33:30 [doug] Wow: So New Hampshire is more open to these goals than other states?

21:33:47 [jsorens] we attended the norml convention, the libertarian party convention, the republican liberty caucus convention, etc

21:34:12 [jsorens] we've accepted & published endorsements from political parties, politicians, writers, professors, etc - so any help you are able to offer is certainly welcomed

21:34:42 [jsorens] doug - nh is certainly one of the most pro-liberty states in the country, if not the most pro-liberty state {more...}

21:35:15 [jsorens] the way we chose it was through an election by our first 5000 signups. we voted on 10 small-population states where we could make an immense difference by moving there and getting active,

21:35:17 [erickson77] *raises hand* (mind a philosophical question, hope it's not too unrelated)

21:35:18 [jsorens] and nh won

21:35:27 [jsorens] a few reasons why nh won...

21:35:31 [cneufer] We have your literature at our NORML store--so hopefully it will help get new members (or whatever you call it).

21:36:00 [jsorens] 1) smallest state & local government sector in the country,

2) no state income or sales tax, 3) legislators are paid just $100 a year, 4) the governor endorsed the fsp

21:36:12 [jsorens] and about 97 other reasons

21:36:40 [jsorens] i encourage you to check out the 'nh info' section of our website and see whether nh might be the right place for you, doug

21:36:56 [jsorens] thats great, cneufer, thanks so much

21:37:02 [cneufer] Is it kind of the same idea as the Mormons took over Utah?

21:37:12 [jsorens] allright, erickson, shoot w/ the philosophical question, this is open ended

21:37:24 [erickson77] The FSP is obviously a noble and practical goal. But what if it's too late for liberty? As goverment controls increase, at what point, theoretically, do you believe it would be apporopriate to use force to protect our rights?

21:38:11 [jsorens] well, theoretically, proportionate force is always justified in self-defense; the important question, in my view, is when it is practical to use self-defensive force against gov't

21:38:49 [erickson77] i guess different people would answer differently

21:39:01 [jsorens] i think classic kinds of insurgency would be very difficult in the current environment, given government's overwhelming advantages over citizens in terms of firepower - my research on insurgencies in other countries {more...}

21:39:13 [jsorens] ...also indicates that rebellion usually causes more tyranny, not less.

21:39:44 [jsorens] so if we ever got to an oppressive situation here in the u.s., i think strategies of 'dropping out,' becoming invisible, emigration, etc are more viable than organized rebellion

21:39:47 [M.Edelstei] *Raises hand* (a practical question)

21:39:59 [erickson77] thanks jason

21:40:14 [jsorens] let me go w/ cneufer's question, then mike's

21:40:27 [jennybaby] FTL_Ian> freak state

21:40:49 [jsorens] i think the fsp is rather parallel to the mormon migration, as well as to the pilgrim migration from britain/holland, and a much more recent movement that happened in the 70s...

21:41:20 [jsorens] ...when leftists and hippies moved to vermont in a semi-coordinated movement to control state politics (vt was the smallest population state at that time)

21:41:27 [jennybaby] FTL_Ian> freak

21:41:52 [jsorens] thousands of lefty-types moved in, & they changed vt's political culture dramatically - from the state of calvin coolidge to the state of bernie sanders and ben & jerrys

21:42:08 [jsorens] so that indicates that this strategy would work even better in nh, which is already very sympathetic to our goals

21:42:33 [jsorens] all right, dr edelstein - shoot w/ the practical question!

21:42:47 [M.Edelstei] I'm concerned with the low recruitment numbers. Toward this end, would it make sense for the powers that be to spend more time assisting and overseeing the local groups, while sacrificing some other activities?

21:43:18 [jsorens] recruitment has been lower this year than last year, for a variety of reasons...

21:43:39 [jsorens] ...the most notable of which has been a lack of big media attention. so there are different things we're thinking about to address that...

21:44:29 [jsorens] ...i believe local groups are a critical element of the strategy. i think we should give local groups all the tools they need to run w/ their ideas, not only to create a sense of community among future neighbors, but also to generate grassroots publicity in local areas around the country...

21:45:16 [jsorens] ...i also believe we'll need a more savvy media strategy, perhaps consult w/ someone who has expertise in this area, & figure out where our $ are best spent...

21:45:40 [jsorens] ...finally, i think things will pick up after the election - we are not anywhere near the hot political story of the year, whereas we were in 2003

21:46:25 [jsorens] (there are also some other ideas bouncing around, but i cant address them all right now probably - as they come to mind i may mention them )

21:46:25 [doug] What have people successfully done, to recruit local groups?

21:47:35 [jsorens] i personally have not led a successful local group actually. right now im leading the ct group, but we just dont have enough members left here...most of the activists have gone to nh. so i cant speak fully from personal experience. however, we will have a training session for local groups soon,

21:47:59 [jsorens] & i plan to be there & learn a few things myself; we have had some successful local groups, in wash dc-baltimore, houston, dallas, southern cal, etc

21:48:18 [M.Edelstei] You cited Vermont as a success in the 70's. What were their recruitment strategies?

21:48:48 [jsorens] they went to mass rallies & concerts that drew hippie & lefty types at that time, and passed out literature

21:49:08 [jsorens] to some extent we can use that strategy as well, at places such as masscann

21:49:34 [jsorens] however, there arent too many places where you can just count on thousands of libertarians coming together - other than the internet i guess

21:49:47 [cneufer] I know I shouldn't be saying this, but wouldn't it be great if Badnarik was President! By the way, that is what we do--go to rallies & festivals and pass out literature.

21:50:06 [jsorens] one of the particular challenges we face is the fact that our 'pool' of potential recruits is small & spread across the country

21:50:12 [doug] Anyone who has recruiting ideas they'd like to share, may contact me at: DougPelter@hotmail.com.

21:50:42 [doug] All wisdom is appreciated.

21:50:44 [jsorens] as we continue to grow, we'll need to starting reaching out to people who arent politically sophisticated

21:51:14 [jsorens] cneufer - its fine to say that here! just because the fsp doesnt officially do activism doesnt mean individuals in the fsp cant do & say whatever they want here

21:51:51 [jsorens] doug - our analyses do indicate that the biggest recruitment source is word of mouth. people often get their friends, family members, roommates, or coworkers to sign on

21:52:14 [katdillon] I hope you don't really mean that the FSP 'doesn't officially do activism'

21:52:20 [cneufer] We have a few hundred members that think this is a great idea--but getting people to want to move is the problem. Not sure how we can overcome this.

21:52:45 [jsorens] sorry kat, i mean 'political activism' - electing candidates and such

21:52:49 [jsorens]

21:53:26 [jsorens] i think emphasizing quality of life might be the way to go... show people how moving to nh is not an act of self-sacrifice, but something that will enrich their own lives

21:53:56 [jsorens] so we are planning to do a mailing showing massachusetts residents how much worse they have it across the border, & how much they could improve their lives by just moving a little ways north!

21:54:11 [russellk]

21:54:24 [jsorens] heh heh

21:55:02 [erickson77] thats me, moving one state up!

21:55:13 [M.Edelstei] (Aside) Time to get back to work. Great seeing you all! Bye.

21:55:13 [jsorens] certainly, we have now spread the meme that nh is either the freest state in the country now, or about to become, without doubt, the freest state in the country

21:55:23 [jsorens] over time, nh will be the first choice for libertarians thinking of relocating

21:55:33 [jsorens] thanks michael, bye!

21:55:47 [cneufer] Many people I talk to would love to do this, but do not want to leave family members. I think this is a big problem. Of course, it is a matter of priority.

21:56:10 [jsorens] one thing that will help in this quality of life campaign is to showcase testimonials of people whove moved

21:56:18 [KarlBeisel] Good evening Kat, all.

21:56:23 [jsorens] we have a bunch of great ones already, but they will be more prominent on the new webpage

21:56:46 [jsorens] ask them to bring their families along! (i know, thats a little tongue in cheek, but it might get them thinking)

21:56:49 [drmattbarn] Has anyone considered using Robert Cialdini's ethical influence work to help recruit (Arizona State U professor, owner of 'influenceatwork.com'

21:56:58 [jsorens] evening, karl!

21:57:38 [jsorens] im not familiar with that myself - id like to hear more though - can you elaborate on it here?

21:57:44 [scottfree] Im planning to attend politics in the park at the local campus and Ive seen a sighn for my local libertarian canadate for the senate, reb southerland. My ? is do u have a big sighn I can tote to the park in honor of the FSP.

21:57:45 [doug] Give us the short version of Ethical Influence work

21:58:09 [jgmaynard] Howdy, folks. :O)

21:58:21 [drmattbarn] Sure - he's a social psychologist, with 30+ years of research he has shown to practically increase the likelihood of influence - in ethical ways

21:58:25 [russellk] hey karl hey jim

21:58:30 [cneufer] Also, as one of our member is a major Libertarian, they feel that they need to stay where they are to promote it in their state.

21:58:35 [doug] drmatt??

21:58:50 [cneufer] I meant "members"

21:58:54 [drmattbarn] He has identified 6 factors that 'trigger' influence process, and others that 'amplify'

21:58:58 [jsorens] scottfree - the only big signs we have are 'porcupine crossing' signs that are more of an inside joke than anything - however, we have all the graphics youd need to make a sign - you can find some on our website & some are in the files sections of yahoo groups, you can post something on the forum f

21:59:04 [jsorens] ..for assistance

21:59:25 [drmattbarn] I'll volunteer to send a few copies of his book "Influence: Science and Practice" to Jason and/or Amanda, if you're interested

21:59:36 [scottfree] thanx jason

21:59:46 [jgmaynard] amanda42> Hey Amanda.. how have you been? Long time, no talk.........

21:59:54 [jsorens] that would be great, thank you

21:59:55 [amanda42] drmatt... i'm interested, thanks!

21:59:55 [jgmaynard] d'oh!

22:00:06 [doug] Drmatt: Please contact me at DougPelter@hotmail.com

22:00:11 [scottfree] sorry to have jumped in but ive gotta go

22:00:29 [amanda42] hi jim

22:00:48 [jsorens] cneufer - that argument you mention from the libertarian doesnt make complete sense to me, as he could accomplish much more with hundreds or thousands of other activists working by his side...

22:01:10 [russellk] agreed

22:01:16 [jsorens] ...at the same time, i understand the emotional investment that comes w/ putting a lot of work into things happening where you live.

22:01:29 [jsorens] thx for participating scottfree!

22:01:30 [DadaOrwell] hi kat! hi all . dont kno how to pm yet

22:02:03 [katdillon] Private messages: /to name

22:02:13 [jsorens] im not sure whether this does have a pm function, that would be a needed upgrade!

22:02:16 [DadaOrwell] yes amanda

22:02:20 [jsorens] oops thx kat

22:02:22 [cneufer] Love you all but gotta go--have to get up early. Peace & Activism--Cher

22:02:41 [russellk] bye

22:02:45 [FTL_Ian] atr was saying he was going to upgrade to IRC.. that will significantly improve this chat.

22:02:46 [jsorens] thanks for stopping by cher & for all you do!

22:02:51 [amanda42] private messages... you can also click on the person's name and it will fill in the /to thingie

22:03:11 [katdillon] thanks

22:29:05 [jgmaynard] Don Gorman tells a great story about mentioning at a school board meeting he was carrying a gun, and all the other school board members drawing themselves away from the table. lol

22:30:03 [SteveA] The sign up rate slowed after last year. I know the sign up process has been made a little tougher and we don't have the state vote anymore, but are there any major reasons why there's been such a slow down. We were seeing exponential growth for a while and it's dropped back down.

22:31:53 [jsorens] those are a couple of reasons you mention, steve, but i think the main reason is that the media isnt paying attention to us b/c of the election

22:32:13 [jsorens] i think we need to think of ways to profit from the post-election 'bumming out' that is going to afflict a lot of people

22:32:32 [SteveA] Yes, that's quite possible

22:32:40 [amanda42] we need media outside of nh!

22:32:53 [jsorens] thats it in a nutshell

22:32:54 [SteveA] Would it be good to have an interim target for 10K?

22:33:17 [jgmaynard] You're right, Amanda. That's why I was trying to think of how to get more non-NH media through our local groups.....

22:33:31 [jsorens] i think so. we first have to make our first interim target of 7k by the end of the year, which we set a few months ago

22:33:52 [KarlBeisel] Are we still running ads on Google?

22:34:06 [jgmaynard] Maybe if we had a nationwide local thing, like say, a nationwide garage sale or something. That could make additional coverage as well

22:34:22 [drmattbarn] Could we have an automated email 'care package' sent to all new members automatically with suggestions for recruiting FSP members in their local areas (suggestions that have worked in the past)?

22:34:26 [jsorens] i dont know the answer to that one karl... do you, amanda?

22:34:58 [jsorens] hm, interesting idea jim...

22:35:30 [jsorens] i think new members are getting welcome letters now, w/ some of that info, not sure exactly what it contains (its a fairly new program w/in the last few months)

22:35:46 [amanda42] reality tv show -- what happens when you put free staters in a house with nh natives.

22:35:55 [katdillon] lol

22:36:02 [jgmaynard] It's prob too late in the year for a garage sale, but something similar, which anyone can do, and if it helps raise funds for local groups too, all the better!

22:36:12 [SteveA] We need to recruit recruiters

22:36:53 [katdillon] We have 6000 recruiters

22:37:01 [russellk] Amanda I love that idea

22:37:06 [amanda42] i'm serious... when we get to 10,000, we'll vote on the reality tv show contestants

22:37:15 [katdillon] drmatt, we're doing that

22:37:26 [SteveA] Sounds like a fun idea Amanda

22:37:29 [jsorens] allright guys, i gotta go! bedtime for me here. enjoyed the chat! (and mary says hi...)

22:37:31 [drmattbarn] Jim - could this be an online 'garage sale' (ala ebay?)

22:37:33 [amanda42] it will be a big debate, just like which state?

22:37:55 [DadaOrwel] we do need horse races, amanda's 10,000 thing sounds good. also resuming elections for board members

22:37:58 [SteveA] Thanks for the chat Jason. Night man

22:38:04 [jsorens] good night all!

22:38:12 [KarlBeisel] Thanks, Jason. Good night!

22:38:13 [amanda42] g'night jason

22:38:28 [jgmaynard] Hmmmmmmmmm. It may not be a garage sale per se, but something along that idea... Could be fitness contests with prizes, penny sales, anything

22:38:50 [russellk] yea anything BIG

22:38:55 [katdillon] I think it's a great idea, Jim

22:38:57 [drmattbarn] good night all

22:39:19 [DadaOrwel] how could we make that reality tv show happen?

22:40:08 [DadaOrwel] actually the reality tv show should involve non freedom lovers so the NH residents can freak them out with guns and other stuff

22:40:15 [SteveA] We should emphasize the need for Friends and not just Members. Members in N.H. do help convince others to come but Friends ouside the state can still make a difference

22:40:28 [jgmaynard] I should get going, but watch for me on TV tomorrow. I just got a ticket to the Red Sox game tomorrow, and I'm supposed to be just to one side behind home plate.

22:40:29 [SteveA] LOL @ Dada

22:40:56 [amanda42] i have no idea how it could happen, but it would be fun to do. maybe i'll ask aaron russo what he thinks

22:40:56 [SteveA] Watch for flying balls Jim

22:41:08 [katdillon] Wear an FSP tshire, Jim

22:41:14 [katdillon] tshirt

22:41:18 [russellk] I guess all of us PST people will run the discussion at the end

22:41:40 [SteveA] Hiya Herself

22:41:50 [katdillon] it's herself herself

22:42:06 [herself] Greeetings. It sez here I should try to be nice. That's going to be a stretch but I'll try!

22:42:09 [DadaOrwel] another idea for the reality show would just be having porcs coming in from NY or CA or wherever revelling in the freedoms being shown to them by the locals

22:43:18 [DadaOrwel] imagine the show participants being taken to a school carrying a gun , riding w/o helmet, etc.

22:43:26 [herself] Heya, SteveA, Karl, other folks I recognize from the boards!

22:43:44 [amanda42] lots of cool reality tv situations

22:43:49 [russellk] exactly

22:44:05 [SteveA] Jason just left a minute before you got here, Herself

22:44:11 [herself] H'mmm, guns in school? Oh, the awfulness... (Those of us old enough & who went to school in smaller towns, remember it happening lots!)

22:44:19 [DadaOrwel] hi her!

22:44:21 [doug] porcs?????????????

22:44:46 [russellk] were you thinking members moving to NH or others?

22:44:51 [katdillon] porcupines...our mascot: gentle, but you shouldn't attack them

22:44:52 [amanda42] porcupines - our mascot

22:44:54 [herself] Steve: *the* Jason? Wooooo! Sorry I missed him.

22:45:38 [herself] Porcupines: pointy! (I'm moreof a hedgehog, myself: shy and sleepy!

22:45:45 [doug] based on the Animal Med tarot deck?

22:45:46 [amanda42] ok, guys... i have to run. i'm in on FST (free state time)

22:46:04 [jgmaynard] K... ciao, Amanda! )

22:46:08 [russellk] bye

22:46:27 [SteveA] Ok, Amanda. Well grab a hidden camera and make a comedy of how people react to seeing someone openly carying

22:46:29 [SteveA] Cya

22:46:49 [amanda42] 'nite!

22:47:03 [herself] H'mmm,,,see, the thingh is, by the time you can *do* FSTV, the media will have already been running pieces about those whacky New Hampshirian people and their quaint ways.

22:47:26 [russellk] so many good angles I love it!

22:48:02 [DadaOrwel] that sounds tru her

22:48:26 [herself] The hen produces her egg *before* she cackles about it, Russel!

22:48:50 [DadaOrwel] i like doing mostly what i can do alone. external forum posts, talk radio calls, LTEs

22:49:11 [herself] Doesn't mean it is a bad idea but it may be awhile off. (But I'm middlin' pessimistic abd would be happy to be proven wrong!)

22:49:24 [scottfree] hate to have missed the party, but if the government will allow him to drive it ,I think my bro's car will make it to work tomarrow

22:49:39 [SteveA] I think you do great Dada. Yes, posting on other forums is good. I don't want to detract from the activity on the FSP forum too much though

22:49:51 [scottfree] how did it go

22:49:52 [herself] Dissipate> People are in the Training room!

22:49:56 [DadaOrwel] talk radio is where you really see the beuaty of this project in NH....it's much easier to get on air there than in my other states i've been in

22:50:31 [katdillon] personal messages /to person

22:50:56 [herself] Good -- radio can be very effective. It's an intimate medium, more so than TV and newspapers.

22:50:57 [scottfree] the beuty of this project is that the people win.

22:51:03 [erickson77] goodnight!!!

22:51:12 [jgmaynard] I know I did a 15-20 min interview on talk radio here in Keene when Campagna was in town. :O)

22:51:19 [doug] SO - - - the porc mascot: Is it from the Animal Med tarot deck?

22:51:48 [herself] Scottfree, you have repaired an Actual Car?!

22:51:49 [DadaOrwel] from keene you can find a talk radio show to call in at at any time you want between 6am and 7pm with few ded spots. you have to listen on net some tho. and i cant get free to cover half of it

22:52:01 [katdillon] Thank you all for coming. I hope you'll attend the training sessions coming up

22:52:24 [DadaOrwel] thanks steve

22:52:31 [SteveA] FTL-Ian posted some info for his talk show

22:52:33 [katdillon] I need to go, but if someone could /save the chat session and send it to me, I'd appreciate it

22:52:43 [herself] Doug, you'd have to ask a Tarot person. Me, I'm far to simple a soul for such.

22:52:56 [scottfree] her, A car is easy. lets work on our gov.

22:53:07 [russellk] Sorry to have to go but I need dinner

22:53:13 [DadaOrwel] bie kat!

22:53:19 [doug] OK, you insider/old timers: Where'd U get your mascot from?

22:53:35 [russellk] goodnight all

22:53:40 [katdillon] send to bookish_lass@yahoo.com Thanks!

22:53:59 [scottfree] good night, russ

22:54:01 [SteveA] Goodnight Russel

22:54:16 [herself] Scott: can't, I don't have any large-cal longarms.... Seriously, the nature of my work is such that I'll not be movong to NH any time soon; but I vote up a storm here in the hinterlands.

22:54:18 [jgmaynard] Ciao, everyone! :O)

22:54:39 [herself] Seeya, Russ!

22:54:40 [scottfree] kat are you from around the south

22:54:45 [DadaOrwel] ya james mitchell was first one i called. i thought he was conservative tho...but i got on right away

22:54:50 [SteveA] Bye Jim

22:55:37 [SteveA] So we have a 7K target by the end of this year?

22:55:40 [DadaOrwel] ok i gtg too....see yall!

22:55:49 [herself] Doug, the actual notion is as previously stated: a porcupine is a critter that'll leave you alone if you leave it alone -- but mess with it and it'll getcha!

22:56:00 [SteveA] Hasta, Dada

Building Consensus - Chat

Communication Strategies for Building Consensus - Chat

This Wednesday evening Oct. 20, Dr. Michael Edelstein (see bio below) will be leading a discussion on Communication Strategies for Building Consensus. The workshop will be held at chat.freestateproject.org at 9pm ET. Hope to see you there!

Dr. Michael R. Edelstein is in private practice in San Francisco and is the co-author, with Dr. David Ramsay Steele, of Three Minute Therapy: Change Your Thinking, Change Your Life, a self-help book for overcoming common emotional and behavioral problems. The book has been chosen as a selection by the Book-of-the-Month Club and by the Behavioral Sciences Book Club, and also as a featured alternate selection.by Laissez-Faire Books. Michael was awarded "Author of the Year" for the book by the National Association of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapists.

Michael lectures nationally and internationally, appears on radio and television, and is published in psychological journals. He is the creator of a five-step audiotape weight-management program, and has produced tapes used for training psychotherapists. He writes the advice column, "Ask Dr.Mike," which appears in the San Francisco Intelligencer.

He is a Training Supervisor and Fellow of the Albert Ellis Institute and holds a diploma in Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy. He is Past President of the Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapy. He frequently speaks to libertarian groups, having given presentations at Laissez Faire Books, ISIL, the Separation of School & State Alliance, Eris, Free Exchange, and the California LP annual conventions. His topic at LPCCon2004 was "Overcoming Emotional Blocks to Success as a Libertarian."

He is currently writing two books, The Revolution In Psychotherapy (Open Court Publishing) and Three Minute Therapy for Stage Fright (See Sharp Press).

Here is Dr. Edelstein's website.

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

21:03:41 [katdillon] Tonight, Dr. Michael Edelstein has generously consented to give a talk on Communication Technques for Building Consenses

21:04:31 [katdillon] I'll turn it over to Michael

21:04:50 [MiclEdlstn] Welcome, everyone!

21:04:58 [MiclEdlstn] First, I'd like to review 18 useful communication principles.

21:05:25 [MiclEdlstn] ...one at a time, so we can discuss each.

21:05:42 [MiclEdlstn] They're particularly appropriate...

21:06:17 [MiclEdlstn] for avoiding and diffusing contentious discussions in FSP chats...

21:06:33 [MiclEdlstn] and on the Message Board....

21:07:02 [MiclEdlstn] and for no extra charge, they'll help you improve your marriage!

21:07:20 [MiclEdlstn] Then, we'll discuss...

21:07:41 [MiclEdlstn] specific communication problems...

21:08:00 [MiclEdlstn] you've faced you wish suggestions on.

21:08:19 [MiclEdlstn] As an experiment...

21:08:45 [MiclEdlstn] I'd like to structure the discussion...

21:09:00 [MiclEdlstn] more like a face-to-face talk...

21:09:10 [MiclEdlstn] and see how this works...

21:09:26 [MiclEdlstn] Should you have a question or comment...

21:09:39 [MiclEdlstn] please raise your hand, like this...

21:09:58 [MiclEdlstn] *Raises hand*...

21:10:11 [MiclEdlstn] or *rh*...

21:10:22 [MiclEdlstn] or simply ^

21:10:37 [MiclEdlstn] (that a hand waving in the air)

21:10:52 [MiclEdlstn] I'll call on you. Thanks.

21:11:15 [MiclEdlstn] Any q's before we start with the first principle?

21:11:50 [MiclEdlstn] Kat, would you display #1, please?

21:12:07 [katdillon] hopefully this works right...

21:12:46 [katdillon] 1. Assume responsibility for your role in a dialogue. Do what _you_ can to improve the process. (As good as it may feel for the moment, resentfully criticizing others for communication breakdowns doesn't help and often accelerates a downward spiral.)

21:12:51 [MiclEdlstn] :-)

21:12:59 [katdillon] (sorry, next one's wont be so slow)

21:13:44 [MiclEdlstn] People tend to assume less power than they have in creating good communication.

21:14:03 [MiclEdlstn] However, if you lay the groundwork...

21:14:11 [MiclEdlstn] as we'll be discussing...

21:14:44 [MiclEdlstn] you will have much power in making communication go well, even with the most difficult customers.

21:15:10 [MiclEdlstn] Qs?

21:15:37 [MiclEdlstn] #2 please, Kat.

21:16:08 [katdillon] 2. Bring up and then address one issue at a time.

21:16:24 [MiclEdlstn] When an interaction gets heated...

21:16:48 [MiclEdlstn] people sometimes recite a history of grievances against the other person.

21:17:06 [MiclEdlstn] It's best to address one issue at a time.

21:17:09 [slye15] ^

21:17:25 [MiclEdlstn] Yes, slye

21:17:35 [slye15] any suggestions for how to remember all the points that they mention while only discussing one at a time?

21:17:44 [MiclEdlstn] Yes,

21:17:54 [MiclEdlstn] suggest starting with one...

21:18:14 [MiclEdlstn] this way the onus is not on you to remember the others.

21:18:32 [slye15] kind of slow them down and ask they stop once they have goten to point one

21:18:44 [MiclEdlstn] When you both agree the first issue had been adaquately covered...

21:18:53 [MiclEdlstn] then ask for the second.

21:19:03 [MiclEdlstn] Exactly.

21:19:20 [MiclEdlstn] Slowing things down, incidentally...

21:19:20 [slye15] alright

21:19:36 [MiclEdlstn] tends to diffuse attack and counterattack.

21:20:12 [MiclEdlstn] Ok, #3.

21:20:27 [katdillon] 3. Remain positive and give the other person the benefit of the doubt. For example, if you suspect they may be using a sarcastic tone, assume the best.

21:20:52 [MiclEdlstn] Especially in internet exchanges...

21:21:09 [MiclEdlstn] it's easy to read a negative tone into a communication.

21:21:32 [MiclEdlstn] Try to be aware of this proclivity...

21:21:48 [MiclEdlstn] and bend over backwards to do the opposite.

21:22:16 [MiclEdlstn] Even if it is meant negatively...

21:22:33 [MiclEdlstn] if you continue in a positive vein...

21:22:52 [MiclEdlstn] your correspondant will tend to drop the negativity.

21:23:26 [MiclEdlstn] Let's go to #4, Kat.

21:23:49 [katdillon] 4. Respond only to the constructive content of a message. Ignore, when possible, sarcasm, innuendo, name-calling, etc. (It's usually possible). This helps avoid escalation.

21:24:10 [MiclEdlstn] Sometimes this involves being a detective.

21:24:44 [MiclEdlstn] Try to discern the useful content...

21:25:13 [MiclEdlstn] and ignore what's useless, sarcastic, irrelevant, etc.

21:25:45 [MiclEdlstn] Ok, on to #5.

21:26:00 [katdillon] 5. Avoid accusations, especially overgeneralized ones, such as: "You never...", You always...", "Why can't you...?", "I can't believe you said that," etc.

21:26:24 [MiclEdlstn] Even if you're feeling disgusted with what you hear...

21:26:42 [MiclEdlstn] you don't have to show it by attacking the other person.

21:26:50 [MiclEdlstn] To avoid this...

21:27:06 [MiclEdlstn] watch your language...

21:27:32 [MiclEdlstn] Again, speak to the specific issue...

21:27:44 [MiclEdlstn] rather than attacking the other's character.

21:28:21 [MiclEdlstn] BTW, these suggestions may sound deceptively simple.

21:28:30 [katdillon] ^

21:28:43 [MiclEdlstn] However, they're often not so easy to implement. Kat.

21:29:27 [MiclEdlstn] Were you just stretching?

21:29:28 [katdillon] Say you're in a disagreement with someone. How do you avoid the temptation to send a really good zinger to make your point? Any suggestions?

21:29:48 [MiclEdlstn] Yes.

21:30:05 [MiclEdlstn] Remind yourself of your ultimate goal.

21:30:06 [katdillon] Sometimes I find it irristable, especially if it's a funny one

21:30:11 [MiclEdlstn] To be understood...

21:30:19 [MiclEdlstn] or to reach an agreement.

21:30:35 [MiclEdlstn] Zingers tend to sabotage these goals...

21:30:48 [MiclEdlstn] so in the long-run you lose out.

21:31:10 [MiclEdlstn] Focus on your basic goal...

21:31:27 [MiclEdlstn] and sacrifice the fleeting pleasure the zinger may give you.

21:31:38 [katdillon] hard to do!

21:31:52 [JohnM] But will the other person think it's funny. That would be important, I'd think.

21:31:53 [MiclEdlstn] It's a pyrhic victory (sp?)

21:32:25 [MiclEdlstn] Yes, it's hard to do. The more you practice the better you get at it.

21:32:48 [MiclEdlstn] JohnM...I didn't see your hand, yet I suspect you have a question.

21:33:04 [katdillon] as my ole dad always says, I can resist anything but temptation

21:33:22 [JohnM] No question. Just commenting on Kat's point.

21:33:26 [MiclEdlstn] Humor is difficult to execute in this format....

21:33:37 [MiclEdlstn] it means knowing your audience...

21:33:54 [MiclEdlstn] You can also send out a test balloon...

21:34:04 [MiclEdlstn] Try one attempt at humor...

21:34:25 [MiclEdlstn] if your correspondant takes it poorly, that tells you something.

21:34:57 [MiclEdlstn] JohnM, does that answer your q?

21:35:05 FTL_Ian enters this room

21:35:41 [FTL_Ian] hallo everybody

21:36:02 [MiclEdlstn] Hi FTL. Welcome.

21:36:05 [katdillon] Hello Ian

21:36:39 [MiclEdlstn] Let's go on to #6.

21:36:51 [katdillon] 6. Say "Please," "Thank you," "I apologize," "Great idea!," etc., generously. These words are the lubricants of communication-- especially "I apologize." ;-)

21:37:15 [MiclEdlstn] This is always good to practice with an IRS agent.

21:37:42 [katdillon]

21:38:04 [MiclEdlstn] These words are easy to remember and you can't use them too often.

21:38:37 [MiclEdlstn] # 7, please.

21:38:48 [katdillon] 7. Before criticizing a position, consider feeding it back to the person advancing it, to confirm you've understood it.

21:39:00 [MiclEdlstn] Thank you.

21:39:34 [MiclEdlstn] Especially when communication seems to be frustrating with someone...

21:39:37 [katdillon] Great idea!

21:40:01 [MiclEdlstn] this helps more to break thru some of the morass.

21:40:05 [FTL_Ian] #7 is very good... it shows the person you are listening, as well

21:41:12 [MiclEdlstn] To demonstrate, would someone like to feed back #7, as you understand it?

21:41:41 [katdillon] restate the person's position by telling it back to them in your own words

21:41:51 [slye15] So what your saying is I should rephase the question to them in my own words and see if they agree?

21:41:53 [MiclEdlstn] Exactly!

21:42:27 [MiclEdlstn] And then ask: "is that what you're saying?"

21:43:12 [MiclEdlstn] Don't just say: "I understand."

21:43:13 [DadaOrwell] hey ian!

21:43:27 [MiclEdlstn] Then you think you understand...

21:43:38 [MiclEdlstn] he thinks you understand..

21:43:52 [MiclEdlstn] but you may both misunderstand.

21:43:56 [FTL_Ian] DadaOrwell> hello

21:44:35 [MiclEdlstn] Next, please, Kat.

21:44:42 [katdillon] 8. Do not label the individual you're speaking with, e.g., "You're a troll," "You're intolerant," " ...disrespectful," "...oblivious," "...obnoxious," etc. This rarely helps and often makes matters worse. Similarly, calling their arguments stupid, destructive, "I can't believe you said that," etc.

21:44:44 [MiclEdlstn] #8.

21:45:19 [MiclEdlstn] This does little to advance the discussion.

21:45:46 [MiclEdlstn] If your looking for a fight, tho, it's great stuff.

21:46:21 [MiclEdlstn] Ok, #9.

21:47:10 [katdillon]>[russellk] had to close yahoo

21:47:13 [katdillon] 9. Keep in mind that "agreeing to disagree" is usually a fine option when stuck in a communication rut. There's often no

21:47:26 [katdillon] right or wrong in our disagreements. Differing opinions may rest on different styles, proclivities, or comfort levels.

21:47:41 [MiclEdlstn] Well said!

21:48:07 [katdillon] Thanks!

21:48:11 [MiclEdlstn] I've seen on many occasions, arguing about the best strategy for freedom...

21:48:29 [MiclEdlstn] when only time will tell what works and what doesn't.

21:48:41 [MiclEdlstn] So if you're a gradualist...

21:48:49 [MiclEdlstn] use gradualist strategies.

21:48:58 [MiclEdlstn] And if you're an abolitionist...

21:49:11 [MiclEdlstn] use abolitionist strategies.

21:49:24 [MiclEdlstn] There's no reason you have to convince the other...

21:49:34 [DadaOrwell] kats computer crashed

21:49:39 [MiclEdlstn] you're 101% right..

21:49:49 [DadaOrwell] she'll be back in about 4 min

21:49:50 [MiclEdlstn] and he's 101% wrong.

21:50:08 [MiclEdlstn] Thanks, Dada.

21:50:49 [MiclEdlstn] Any qs about "agreeing to disagree?"

21:51:19 [MiclEdlstn] #10: If you wish someone to communicate more constructively....

21:51:39 [MiclEdlstn] offer a specific suggestion and begin i twith...

21:51:52 [MiclEdlstn] "I prefer..." For example...

21:52:15 [MiclEdlstn] "I prefer you not call me intolerant. Rather,

21:52:41 [MiclEdlstn] please cite specifically what I said you disagree with."

21:52:54 [MiclEdlstn] (Alternatively, trying to prove...

21:53:01 [MiclEdlstn] you're not intolerant...

21:53:24 [MiclEdlstn] or even launcing a counterattack, rarely is constructive.)

21:53:47 [slye15] ^

21:53:51 [katdillon] (I'm back)

21:54:10 [slye15] Might that make them think your totally dismissing their point without considering it

21:54:12 [MiclEdlstn] Great! We're up to #11.

21:55:03 [katdillon] 11. If you feel the process is breaking down, discuss this with the other person. Collaboratively work to improve it by focusing on future behavioral change, rather than by assigning blame for past communication difficulties.

21:55:20 [MiclEdlstn] The past is dead and gone and can't be resurrected. So focus on future change.

21:55:56 [MiclEdlstn] Okay, #12.

21:56:12 [katdillon] 12. State negative feelings in a positive way by stating the other's best self, e.g., "I know you're a tolerant person," or "You often have excellent ideas." Then let them know you feel they're not living up to their usual high standard.

21:56:43 [MiclEdlstn] People love praise and tend to dislike criticism.

21:57:10 [MiclEdlstn] Here you sneakily use praise to criticize. :-)

21:57:37 [MiclEdlstn] Let's go to #13.

21:57:57 [katdillon] 13. If you're communicating by computer, consider moving to the telephone should communication get stalled.

21:58:17 [MiclEdlstn] This would take much of the guesswork out of reading the other person's tone of voice.

21:58:42 [MiclEdlstn] #14, please.

21:58:55 [katdillon] 14. Give positive feedback, praise, appreciation, "atta boys" wherever possible.

21:59:12 [katdillon] You're doing a great job, btw, Michael

21:59:20 [MiclEdlstn] Can't emphasize this enough!

21:59:36 [MiclEdlstn] Thanks, Kat. And, of course, so are you.

21:59:54 [MiclEdlstn] You're a fast learner, BTW.

22:00:05 [MiclEdlstn] Let's try #15.

22:00:24 [katdillon] 15. Preface constructive criticism with positive feedback.

22:00:49 [MiclEdlstn] With a little thought, you usually can think of something positive to say.

22:01:11 [MiclEdlstn] For example, it's great you're with the FSP. We need you!

22:01:25 [MiclEdlstn] 16, Kat.

22:01:38 [katdillon] 16. If disengaging is a viable option with someone who seems generally angry and negativistic, politely end the dialogue. Alternatively, consider suggesting ending it for continuation at a future date, when one (or both of you) will have had a chance to collect your thoughts and calm down.

22:02:15 [MiclEdlstn] There's no reason you must continue a destructive interaction.

22:02:27 [MiclEdlstn] It's useful to recognize when to cut and run.

22:02:55 [MiclEdlstn] Two more left. #17?

22:03:09 [katdillon] 17. Keep in mind that everyone is a free agent with free will, consequently you can't force anyone to understand or agree with you, no matter how self-evident your view seems to you.

22:03:40 [MiclEdlstn] It's easy to think you can bully someone into your position...

22:03:48 [MiclEdlstn] with powerful rhetoric...

22:03:59 [MiclEdlstn] or cutting sarcasm.

22:04:12 [MiclEdlstn] Sadly, this usually doesn't work.

22:04:29 [MiclEdlstn] Often the more you push, the more you get pushed back.

22:04:52 [MiclEdlstn] It's an art to gracefully accept disagreement.

22:05:22 [MiclEdlstn] Ok, our last communication principle:

22:05:33 [katdillon] 18. Remind others--and yourself--of our common goal: to build a free society. Consequently, collaboration, rather than one-upmanship, is essential.

22:06:03 [MiclEdlstn] Ok, what communication problems have you had...

22:06:22 [MiclEdlstn] or have you witnessed, that you wish to discuss or ask about?

22:06:38 [MiclEdlstn] Remember to 6.

22:06:53 [MiclEdlstn] That's ^, I meant to say.

22:07:43 [slye15] ^

22:07:49 [MiclEdlstn] Slye

22:08:36 [slye15] Great suggstions, so far. How do you deal with a person that will continuely try to steer the conversation to details when the main point they can't defend?

22:09:16 [MiclEdlstn] You can try: "I'd love to discuss those other points later...

22:09:33 [MiclEdlstn] but first let's reach agreement on this one.

22:09:46 [MiclEdlstn] Would that be ok with you?"

22:10:13 [MiclEdlstn] (In proposing something like this, try to get the other's..

22:10:18 [slye15] makes sense

22:10:27 [MiclEdlstn] explicit agreement by asking for it.)

22:10:29 [slye15] oen thing at a time is what I need to learn

22:10:50 [MiclEdlstn] Simple, but not easy.

22:11:31 [katdillon] ^

22:11:31 [MiclEdlstn] If you find yourself in the midst of a communication spiral...

22:11:54 [MiclEdlstn] it's never to late to suggest going back to square one...

22:12:11 [MiclEdlstn] and starting again with one issue this time.

22:12:33 [MiclEdlstn] Would anyone like to add techniques you've found helpful?

22:13:44 [MiclEdlstn] Any final questions, comments, or discussion?

22:13:53 [katdillon] yes

22:13:59 [FTL_Ian] Where did the list come from?

22:14:00 [MiclEdlstn] Ok, Kat.

22:14:13 [slye15] Thanks, excellent suggestions/guide lines

22:14:29 [katdillon] Let's say you've got a decision to be made, and you and the other party need to come to an agreement

22:14:31 [MiclEdlstn] You're welcome.

22:14:39 [MiclEdlstn] Kat, did you have a q?

22:14:47 [katdillon] but find yourselves totally deadlocked on opposite sides of the fence

22:14:58 [katdillon] Any suggestions for breaking the deadlock?

22:15:06 [MiclEdlstn] There are many ways...

22:15:33 [katdillon] when agree to disagree isn't really an option

22:15:33 [MiclEdlstn] one is to agree on a third party to referee or arbitrate.

22:15:51 [MiclEdlstn] Another is to take turns:

22:16:17 [MiclEdlstn] "This time we go with your idea, if next time I have priority."

22:16:53 [MiclEdlstn] A third is bribery: "I'll give you $100 to agree."

22:17:02 [katdillon] lol

22:17:04 [slye15] ha

22:17:05 [MiclEdlstn] Hey, we're capitalists, right?

22:17:26 [katdillon] Certainly!

22:17:44 [MiclEdlstn] You can also find a third idea that neither of you are thrilled about...

22:17:54 [MiclEdlstn] but are willing to embrace as a compromise.

22:18:10 [katdillon] (Ian, I believe Michael wrote up this list)

22:18:51 [MiclEdlstn] It came from my 30 years experience working with couples and businesses in negotiating consensus.

22:19:16 [katdillon] Good ideas, thanks Michael

22:19:29 [MiclEdlstn] Working thru problems in my own marriage also gave me practice.

22:19:34 [PhilD] Yes, thank you

22:20:08 [MiclEdlstn] For this I thank my wife, Janice, who refuses to take my back talk.

22:20:26 [katdillon]

22:20:39 [JohnM] LOL

22:20:49 [MiclEdlstn] You're welcome, Phil, Kat.

22:21:23 [MiclEdlstn] If you have qs that come up in the future--real incidents--feel free to ask me.

22:21:37 [MiclEdlstn] I'm always happy to help Free Staters.

22:21:53 [katdillon] That's great! Thanks

22:22:17 [JohnM] Yes, thank you, Michael. Those are all good suggestions.

22:22:26 [MiclEdlstn] Also, if you wish to join Kat and me in forming a group that helps put out flaming wars on the Message Board...

22:22:39 [katdillon] how can people reach you if they have questions, Michael>

22:22:54 [MiclEdlstn] please send me an email: DrEdelstein@ThreeMinuteTherapy.com

22:23:05 [MiclEdlstn] or 415-673-2848,

22:23:28 [MiclEdlstn] I believe Kat will be posting...

22:23:46 [MiclEdlstn] all 18 principles somewhere on the website.

22:23:53 [MiclEdlstn] Is that right?

22:24:27 [katdillon] Yes, several places if I can

22:24:30 [slye15] I also saved them if anyone wants a quick run down of them

22:24:42 [katdillon] on the forum and freestateproject.org/training

22:24:54 [MiclEdlstn] Great!

22:25:06 [PhilD] That should help us have more and less

22:25:06 [katdillon] along with the transcript of tonight's chat

22:25:34 [MiclEdlstn] Thank you Kat for coordinating these chats. You provided a great service.

22:26:00 [katdillon] Oh, it's been my pleasure. You're quite welcome

22:26:31 [MiclEdlstn] Phil, I'll bet posting smiley faces is a great strategy to assist good communication.

22:27:15 [MiclEdlstn] Good night, everybody. Thanks for attending and being such a good audience.

22:27:38 [katdillon] Thank you again, Michael for taking the time to do this.

22:27:58 [JohnM] Good evening, everyone. Thanks, Michael. Thanks, Kat.

22:27:59 [PatK] Thank you

22:28:07 [DadaOrwell] nite all!

22:28:13 JohnM exits from this room

22:28:22 [PhilD] Thanks Michael and Kat - May flights of angels...and all that

22:29:36 [katdillon] Good night all! Hope to see you next week for Phil's Speaker's workshop

Note: The above strategies are also conveniently listed at Communication Strategies For Building Consensus.

Q&A with FSP early movers

Q & A with FSP early movers – 01/13/05

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

17:05:32 [RussellK] I see we have had some people come and go already

17:07:32 [katdillon] Howdy

17:07:38 [erich] Hi

17:07:53 [katdillon] how goes?

17:07:55 [erich] I see things are going a little slow here in the beginning.

17:07:59 [erich] well

17:08:26 [katdillon] We were a little late...watching The Manchurian Candidate

17:08:32 [RussellK] it always does

17:08:37 [erich] Hah!

17:08:53 [erich] I want to see that one, but seem to onle see about 2 new films a year.

17:08:56 [RussellK] we haven't gotten people use to the idea yet of our NH chats

17:09:14 [RussellK] we were watching the old version

17:09:37 [erich] Well, do you see most of the Granite Staters in person fairly often?

17:09:49 [katdillon] fairly often

17:10:02 [katdillon] we met last night, seeing people all weekend

17:10:10 [erich] Oh, well. I am looking forward to seeing how the new one measures up.

17:10:46 [erich] That is awesome. I cannot wait to get up there in March.

17:10:52 [katdillon] Haven't seen the new one yet

17:10:54 [erich] Especially to see people.

17:11:03 [RussellK] where are you moving to?

17:11:03 [katdillon] Cool

17:11:20 [erich] I went to the Liberty Dinner in June, as you may remember, Kat,

17:11:28 [erich] but did not really mingle that much.

17:11:33 [katdillon] Yep

17:11:46 [RussellK] so is this bluelu?

17:11:46 [erich] Oh, I will be up for the week

17:11:49 [erich] before town elections

17:11:58 [erich] just to help and to scope out property.

17:12:02 [katdillon] We'll have a huge TX contingent!

17:12:09 [RussellK] the guy that roped me into his schemes on the forum?

17:12:17 [erich] My current favorite town is Greenfield

17:12:26 [erich] just the other side of Peterborough from Keene

17:12:38 [erich] Shhhhh!

17:12:55 [erich] I did not think it was that schemy

17:13:06 [erich] Maybe someone has been posing as me.

17:13:10 [RussellK] I was too easy

17:13:24 [katdillon] I'll say

17:13:34 [erich] LOL

17:13:44 [erich] Have you ever heard about Don Gorman's talk?

17:13:46 [katdillon]

17:13:55 [erich] About any good that may have come out of it?

17:13:58 [katdillon] I didn't hear what happend, no

17:14:17 [katdillon] Did hear he was thinking of doing another one on the seacoast soon

17:14:23 [erich] K

17:14:45 [erich] I may have to go to help my wife do some A/V editing on her computer.

17:14:54 [erich] So, if I just stop responding. Please forgive

17:14:58 [katdillon] okie dokie

17:15:05 [katdillon] no problem

17:16:37 [RussellK] so Greenfield huh?

17:16:55 [erich] Dave Mincin seems to be getting a thing or two done.

17:17:03 [erich] speaking of the Seacoast

17:17:08 [katdillon] I went out to Greenfield to dance one night

17:17:10 [erich] Greeenfield. Yeah.

17:17:15 [katdillon] Dave's great

17:17:17 [erich] It just looked beautiful.

17:17:25 [katdillon] they have a contra dance there

17:17:28 [erich] Even the village center is very rural.

17:17:32 [katdillon] *nods*

17:17:36 [erich] Contras????

17:17:38 [RussellK] Dave Mincin is our archrival for incoming porcs

17:17:46 [erich] Oh, not like in El Salv...

17:17:50 [katdillon] Not terribly far from Peterborough

17:17:55 [katdillon] no

17:17:55 [erich] Oh wait, we figured thatone out.

17:18:14 [katdillon] kinda like old fashioned sqare dancing, but in a line

17:18:24 [erich] Well, I may sleep a night on his floor. I am trying to get an interview with a Portsmouth outfit.

17:18:49 [katdillon] Many people have spent the night on Dave's floor and lived to tell the tale

17:18:55 [erich] I looked it up, and found where they do it around here once a month, but they finish so late....

17:19:04 [erich] We pumpkinize early.

17:19:14 [katdillon] me too

17:19:18 [erich] I hear the smoke is thinner down there.

17:19:24 [erich] ...on Dave's floor.

17:19:31 [katdillon] lol

17:19:40 [erich] Just a joke. I used to smoke, and it really does not bother me.

17:20:01 [katdillon] Did you meet Dave?

17:20:25 [erich] We visited Dover and Portsmouth in June, and really liked it, but The Monadnock

17:20:35 [erich] countryside really beconed us.

17:20:42 [erich] I did NOT meet dave.

17:20:57 [erich] But, he offered good advice on where to stay and eat before we got there.

17:21:10 [katdillon] cool

17:21:21 [katdillon] he's a helpful sort

17:21:23 [erich] I asked the favor of a free space on his floor a few weeks ago, when I finalized plans to come in March.

17:21:44 [erich] At the time, I thought that all municipal elections were in March,

17:21:53 [katdillon] I think he likes the company

17:21:58 [erich] but that does not seem to be the case. It seems that the "Cities" are in Jan.

17:22:10 [erich] Like Keene, right????

17:22:14 [katdillon] We just found out that next march in keene will be the school board election

17:22:30 [katdillon] they were november

17:22:49 [erich] Oh, wow! I guess, each city chooses when city elections will be.

17:22:52 [erich] Back in minute.

17:22:55 [katdillon] A guy from the local school board came to our meeting last night

17:29:47 [RussellK] PatK to the rescue

17:30:15 [E_Clay10] hello

17:30:24 [RussellK] hello

17:30:25 [PatK] huh?

17:30:36 [RussellK] are you guys a little early for the FSP chat?

17:30:42 [PatK] hi all

17:30:50 [RussellK] hello

17:30:53 [PatK] yep

17:30:53 [erich] Do you know of any good candidates? I am still in search of work to do while I am in NH Mar. 1-8.

17:31:11 [E_Clay10] I would like to know if there are any Objectivists involved with FSP?

17:31:30 [RussellK] lots

17:31:42 [RussellK] and some that hate objectivits

17:31:46 [erich] Good to see you, Clay. I noticed your posts from Western MI today.

17:31:53 [RussellK] and some that don't know what that word means

17:32:13 [E_Clay10] thanx

17:32:15 [erich] I became a Rand fan at age 14.

17:32:30 [erich] Introduced by an unwitting public school English teacher.

17:32:30 [E_Clay10] actually southeastern MI

17:32:40 [E_Clay10] City of Westland

17:32:42 [erich] Yikes. My memory may be bad.

17:32:51 [erich] AHHHHH! I see.

17:33:04 [erich] "Wasteland" Yes.

17:33:11 [E_Clay10] near Detroit

17:33:20 [E_Clay10] yep

17:33:22 [PatK] I guess I would be a very small o objectivst

17:34:10 [E_Clay10] that's pronounced nihilist

17:34:23 [RussellK]

17:34:27 [erich] I have several friens near Detroit, but alas no Objectivists, nor libertarians.

17:34:36 [erich] LOL

17:34:42 [PatK] and there you go

17:34:49 [E_Clay10] me too

17:35:16 [E_Clay10] wish there was more

17:35:27 [erich] I can lay my hands on the Objectivists in central Texas, but

17:35:35 [erich] for the NH contingent....

17:35:46 [E_Clay10] here in the People's state of MI

17:36:22 [erich] I will have to defer. I am really stretching my legitimacy in any NH group.

17:37:01 [E_Clay10] What do you mean?

17:37:19 [katdillon] hi people

17:37:29 [RussellK] there is an objectivist group in concord nh headed by a FSP guy

17:37:54 [katdillon] I know a bunch of objectivist in nashua

17:38:00 [katdillon] s

17:38:20 [erich] If you are asking about me. I think that the best use of my time is getting involved in NH activity, and getting there a couple times a year, which I will be doing for a week just before town elections in March.

17:38:21 [E_Clay10] I read something like that a year ago then could never find it again.

17:38:24 [katdillon] Amanda's an objectivist...she's just down by Boston

17:38:47 [erich] Hopefully moving this summer, but that is contingent on a job, or a wealthy relative dying.

17:38:49 [katdillon] hello

17:38:49 [E_Clay10] ok

17:38:56 [E_Clay10] hello

17:39:05 [katdillon] What do you do, erich?

17:39:13 [PatK] those little s's just wont stay were you wan't them will they kat

17:39:25 [erich] Software engineer.

17:39:28 [katdillon] you could ask Mike Lorrey....he talks to all those -o people

17:39:32 [RussellK] man we hate that "we made the move" story that includes the rich relative died story

17:39:39 [katdillon] I must be slurring them

17:39:51 [pliny] Would someone tell me what the job market is like for teachers? ( I would prefer to work in a private or parochial school)

17:39:51 [PatK]

17:39:57 [erich] You are just WAY too uptight, Russ

17:40:05 [katdillon] haha

17:40:10 [E_Clay10] Mike Lorrey?

17:40:25 [katdillon] that's one word I've never associated with Russell!

17:40:26 [erich] An objectivist?

17:40:26 [RussellK] I don't know about teacher jobs

17:40:33 [katdillon] I think so

17:40:38 [katdillon] want his email?

17:40:48 [RussellK] there seems to be a high percentage of private schools in our area of Keene

17:40:50 [erich] I only know about teachers of the deaf jobs.

17:40:53 [E_Clay10] yes please

17:41:20 [RussellK] I don't know about the rest

17:41:27 [katdillon] ok just a sec (sec sec, not sex...man, typos these days)

17:41:57 [erich] Do you know of a web presence for the Nashua objectivists? I would think it would be a nexus, since it is the easiest access from Boston.

17:42:19 [katdillon] mlorrey@yahoo.com

17:42:29 [katdillon] mike lorrey knows them

17:42:29 [erich] That is actually where the Boston-area Linux Users group met, last I checked.

17:42:30 [E_Clay10] thanx

17:42:40 [katdillon] I went to a party with them, I'm sorry to say

17:43:25 [katdillon] there is a big linux users group in nashua

17:43:36 [RussellK] I wish we had a linux user group in Keene

17:43:51 [katdillon] start one

17:43:53 [RussellK] hello wildboar

17:43:57 [wildboar] Nice to login and see people online.

17:44:01 [katdillon]

17:44:08 [RussellK] to busy fighting the government

17:44:19 [katdillon] hi boar

17:44:24 [PatK] Keene seems to be the black hole of NH you visit and never leave

17:44:30 [RussellK] the official FSP chat starts at 9pm

17:44:31 [E_Clay10] is everyone here already in NH?

17:44:42 [RussellK] we like to chat for the hour before

17:44:43 [katdillon] yes, come to the dark side

17:44:46 [RussellK] I am

17:44:55 [katdillon] russell and I are in NH

17:45:07 [RussellK] you have to visit Keene last because you will never leave

17:45:11 [E_Clay10] one day

17:45:14 [PatK] I stayed ib Keene for a few days after theporcfest and loved it

17:45:20 [PatK] in even

17:45:25 [katdillon] but you escaped

17:45:32 [RussellK] yes PatK you must move here

17:45:36 [RussellK] it is your destiny

17:45:36 [katdillon] it's supposed to be like Hotel California

17:45:48 [PatK] YEA but not happy about it

17:45:54 [RussellK] lets see patk is not in NH

17:46:05 [RussellK] erich is not here yet

17:46:11 [katdillon] it calls you, just like Bali hai

17:46:34 [katdillon] can you hear it calling you?

17:46:45 [wildboar] I just visited NH for the first time over New Years holiday just to check things out. Drove top to bottom. Liked Jackson.

17:46:59 [RussellK] hmmm

17:47:02 [PatK] though I have never lived far from the ocean, I don't know how that would be

17:47:08 [katdillon] Great

17:47:12 [katdillon] Where's Jackson?

17:47:19 [katdillon] Dry

17:47:20 [RussellK] what did you like about Jackson

17:47:42 [E_Clay10] I lived in Portland ME for a few months in '00 and drove through NH it took maybe 30 minutes

17:47:43 [wildboar] Jackson is north of N. Conway

17:48:12 [katdillon] small state

17:48:30 [E_Clay10] yep

17:48:34 [katdillon] oh, I've been through there then. I liked conway & n. conway

17:48:49 [RussellK] we have people from the seacoast come to keene meetings and viceversa

17:49:14 [RussellK] This is the closest I have ever lived to the ocean PatK

17:49:35 [katdillon] I lived a block from the beach in CA

17:49:40 [wildboar] Jackson is a very picturesque (sp) clean town. Pretty tightly controled place.

17:50:15 [katdillon] lots of picturesque towns here!

17:50:21 [RussellK] you like cute little towns then you move there and try to build a house ....ouch

17:50:23 [katdillon] It's soooo much prettier than TX

17:50:35 [E_Clay10] all right folks nice to meet you all. Live free or die.

17:50:46 [wildboar] I thought Conway and N. Conway were rediculous. It took about 20 minutes just to drive through town because of the traffic and there is just one main street.

17:50:52 [PatK] Well Iguees it's what about an hour and a half from Keene to the sea coast

17:51:15 [erich] Erich is also getting pulled into mastering some video for deaf students an the moment.

17:51:20 [RussellK] a little more

17:51:22 [katdillon] oh bummer...wasn't like that when I went through, so maybe didn't get a good feel for them

17:51:27 [PatK] I drive anhour to montauk to fish here alot so ne big deal

17:51:36 [katdillon] 2.25 hrs

17:51:54 [PatK] more than I thought

17:52:07 [katdillon] 2.2507

17:52:23 [katdillon] he called me 'digital girl' can you believe that?

17:52:37 [RussellK] we are about 2 hours from boston harbor

17:52:45 [RussellK] not any faster to get to the NH coast

17:52:54 [katdillon] 2.37 hrs

17:53:09 [wildboar] What is the big attraction to Keene that I'm hearing here?

17:53:16 [PatK] yea but who the hell wants to drive through Boston

17:53:34 [katdillon] no I

17:53:46 [erich] I've got to think that things are more staid in NH than TX, just because of the extra 200 years of settlement.

17:53:56 [katdillon] It's not too small, not too big, and it's a hotbed of activism

17:54:08 [PatK] I thought Manhatten was bad till I went to Boston

17:54:22 [RussellK] Keene is not too expensive and we live here

17:54:30 [katdillon] Boston = hello on earth

17:54:39 [katdillon] hell

17:54:44 [katdillon] I can't type tonight

17:54:45 [RussellK] we are getting more than our fair share of porcupines here in Keene

17:55:15 [canaan] greetings....

17:55:18 [PatK] And Keene has a wallmart lol

17:55:18 [katdillon] I guess we're meeting in this chatroom tonight for the FSP chat

17:55:25 [RussellK] hello

17:55:32 [PatK] I love the evil Wal-mart

17:55:38 [wildboar] Is there something in particular that the porcupines have done in Keene?

17:55:49 [canaan] just recently found out about porcupines thru a gun magazine article

17:56:03 [katdillon] We're in the process of starting a liberty oriented school

17:56:25 [katdillon] check out nhunderground.com there's a bunch of stuff

17:56:36 [katdillon] that's great, canaan

17:56:37 [RussellK] oh evan nappen got to you.....canaan

17:56:43 [RussellK] he is a good guy

17:56:59 [canaan] yup... russell

17:57:01 [wildboar] That's nice to start a school. has tuittion been set?

17:57:04 [katdillon] Do you have questions about the free state project, canaan?

17:57:22 [canaan] interesting that even WEST WING had NH on the program

17:57:26 [katdillon] no. it's going to be indivual classes at first

17:57:37 [katdillon] cool. what was on west wing?

17:57:46 [RussellK] west wing ....nh?

17:57:56 [wildboar] So how do you make money with the school?

17:58:14 [canaan] kat... the concept sounds intriguing, the main question is viable employment. The company I work for has an office in Dover NH, I have to research openings

17:58:19 [katdillon] right now the individual instructors are charging per class

17:58:35 [canaan] wifey (madmoon) is a banker, so she should be set

17:58:45 [katdillon] oh that's great! Dover is nice. davemincin is in Dover

17:58:58 [katdillon] hi madmoon

17:59:08 [madmoon] howdy kat

17:59:12 [canaan] have to take a vacation there to check things out. LOVE seafood, should be fun

17:59:14 [katdillon] hi scott

17:59:22 [ScottRoth] Hey folks.

17:59:32 [PatK] yea last night on west wing the had the canadatesgoing to the dump and stuff in NH to talk to votters and then went on to belittle the folks and promote a 240 day school year like a 180 days in state jail are not enough

17:59:34 [wildboar] So is the school a formal thing now, I mean can one sign-up and go to it?

17:59:37 [davemincin] hi Kat looks like u have all well in hand

17:59:38 [madmoon] hubby is trying to sell me on the idea of moving to NH

17:59:39 [ScottRoth] Hi Kat.

17:59:52 [katdillon] We're still in the process of getting the school started

18:00:05 [katdillon] Have you ever been to NH, madmoon?

18:00:07 [ScottRoth] Can't wait...

18:00:33 [madmoon] no we've not

18:00:33 [canaan] would be nice to have schools teach kids to learn, as opposed to teaching them to conform...

18:00:36 [RussellK] there are questions for you davemincin...about the seacoast

18:00:58 [davemincin] ok shoot

18:01:16 [katdillon] You're so right! We're planning some night classes for adults, and some day classes supporting homeschoolers

18:01:16 [madmoon] we have been to maryland tho.... there's an awesome sheep and wool festival there every may

18:01:25 [wildboar] Have any of you looked into the viability of actually making a profit from a private school?

18:01:39 [PatK] whats the volicty of a swallow carrying a coconut?

18:01:45 [katdillon] A profit was one of the ideas

18:01:47 [canaan] madmoon would like nothing better than having an alpaca/sheep farm with related crafting projects

18:02:03 [RussellK] a private school can make money

18:02:03 [katdillon] NH is so beautiful. I'm so happy I left TX

18:02:23 [canaan] how long have you been in NH?

18:02:30 [davemincin] if u r in Maryland would suggest u look up Kate and Adam Rick

18:02:32 [katdillon] about 7 months

18:02:33 [ScottRoth] We need more sheep farms.

18:02:36 [RussellK] ok davem patk had a question for you

18:02:38 [wildboar] So do you have a business plan for the private school?

18:03:08 [davemincin] go

18:03:12 [katdillon] Seems like a good place to farm

18:03:37 [RussellK] the instructors rent out the classes and charge what they want, so we all make our own plans

18:03:39 [FTL_Ian] Well look at that, a whole other room

18:03:42 [FTL_Ian] hello all

18:03:45 [PatK] never mind pay no attention to Pat he is just a smart ass

18:03:45 [canaan] LOL, don't know if the alpaca and sheep would like the business I'd like to start.... (shooting range)

18:03:45 [JonM] you on air, or is this time warp hour still ian?

18:03:50 [FTL_Ian] Kat, did you get my last email about your server config?

18:03:50 [katdillon] No. None of us are real business people. We're starting small and working our way into it

18:03:51 [RussellK] hello ian

18:04:04 [FTL_Ian] On air

18:04:09 [FTL_Ian] 2 mins till live

18:04:26 [katdillon] Yes, Ian. The URL seems to work as is

18:04:42 [katdillon] When I tried to change the forum, terrible, unspeakable things happened

18:04:46 [canaan] ommygod, we're not live????

18:04:56 [FTL_Ian] Oh, yes it works, but the config leaves something to be desired that *most* poeple won't notice

18:05:00 [RussellK] lol

18:05:04 [katdillon] Not ian

18:05:21 [katdillon] So nice of you to set it up for me!

18:05:32 [PatK] IM live

18:05:32 [FTL_Ian] so, if you can't config the way I suggested, it's not a huge deal... they do work as is.

18:05:50 [FTL_Ian] Yes, so now next time you're on the radio for an hour, it should be a little smoother.

18:06:37 [katdillon] Yes! If that ever happens again

18:06:39 [RussellK] hello nick

18:06:41 [katdillon] hi Nick

18:07:10 [RussellK] so any really tough questions about NH .....except PatK

18:07:19 [Nick] hello

18:07:26 [RussellK] We have davemincin who represents Dover

18:07:33 [RussellK] Kat and I from Keene

18:07:44 [RussellK] Scott roth from peterborough

18:07:58 [canaan] if it's not to much trouble, how bout a quick and dirty run thru about the project, goals, and method of operation .... Russell

18:08:04 [canaan] *S*

18:08:10 [RussellK] JonM from nearby MA

18:08:27 [JonM] pity me

18:08:31 [Nick] Russ, when do the monad porcs meet?

18:08:33 [RussellK] we want lots of liberty loving people to move to NH

18:08:49 [ScottRoth] Won't be for long, right Jon?

18:08:54 [katdillon] 2nd wednesday of the month

18:08:58 [MiclEdlstn] Is Ben Franklin here today? If not, who's attaching his corny quotes to my name?

18:09:00 [canaan] yes yes....

18:09:07 [RussellK] and do what we can to make NH the most wonderful place in america for liberty

18:09:15 [JonM] well can't move for most of 2005

18:09:21 [Nick] Not a good night for me, but I could try to make it

18:09:23 [katdillon] http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Monadnock+Porcupines

18:09:34 [canaan] not to sound like a wet blanket, but that's sort of the tail wagging the dog

18:09:37 [ScottRoth] Closer than you think, though...

18:09:57 [katdillon] Great

18:10:06 [canaan] worst case scenario, are we talking succession?

18:10:07 [RussellK] the official goals for the FSP are on the website

18:10:19 [Nick] Thanks for the link Kat

18:10:27 [ScottRoth] More like success!

18:10:41 [RussellK] depends on what happens...the FSP is just about getting people together

18:10:52 [MiclEdlstn] Hi, Dave!

18:10:54 [Nick] I'm not sure secession is an amiable path

18:10:55 [katdillon] Not planning on secession. Plan to work within the system

18:10:57 [JonM] secession is unlikely

18:11:03 [RussellK] I wouldn't mind suceeding myself

18:11:09 [canaan] in listening to an interview that KAT did (downloaded from your website) this project seems very loose

18:11:10 [RussellK] seceeed

18:11:17 [JonM] don't want to be invaded by Canada!

18:11:34 [madmoon] but they're so polite LOL

18:11:35 [RussellK] very loose

18:11:40 [katdillon] The project is to get 20,000 people interested in limited government to move here

18:11:44 [RussellK] loose enough for you to join

18:11:45 [canaan] LOL, I just invited a cANADIAN friend to join us in this chat room... look for PARCENON....

18:11:56 [Nick] Are there any movers with questions?

18:12:00 [PatK] it is damn I better deactivate those strtigic blast charges and cancel the tug boats that were gonna pull us out ot sea

18:12:11 [katdillon] lol PatK

18:12:13 [canaan] LOL russell... be careful, 'ye hardly know me'

18:12:20 [JonM] maine woulda been a better choice for that

18:12:27 [Nick] Actually neighboring Quebec is close to secession from canada

18:12:29 [davemincin] hi michael

18:12:30 [RussellK] see ....that is how it works

18:12:32 [JonM] NH is a tight squeeze to get through 19 miles of coastline

18:13:26 [RussellK] Quebec was one of the inspirations for the FSP

18:13:28 [canaan] it will be interesting to see if the power brokers in washington will 'allow' the constitution and declaration of independence to make it back into popularity....

18:13:30 [ScottRoth] NIce views, though...

18:13:46 [canaan] afterall, Uncle Sam is here to help and protect us.... *sic*

18:13:47 [davemincin] we SC are about networking with NH liberty groups...and making welcome as many of the new folks as possible

18:13:50 [Nick] was it really?

18:14:01 [katdillon] They're banned in CA public schools

18:14:14 [erich] Yes, Quebec and other seperatist movements.

18:14:22 [katdillon] Yes, Nick

18:14:42 [JonM] one teacher

18:14:46 [Nick] The power broker have less power than they claim to

18:14:57 [JonM] who is making a big stink about it and getting some air play

18:14:58 [davemincin] We hear to talk about NH or just chat about whatever?

18:15:10 [Nick] ell quebec is a logical inspiration for decentralization

18:15:12 [katdillon] talk about NH

18:15:17 [erich] Does anybody have a link to Jason's article in LE.

18:15:32 [katdillon] ya just a sec

18:15:36 [davemincin] thanks

18:15:45 [RussellK] hey davem how much does it cost for a 4 bedroom house in Dover

18:15:57 [katdillon] http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2001/libe131-20010723-03.html

18:16:00 [JonM] hahahah...who is this manwich person ian?

18:16:18 [FTL_Ian] My co-host

18:16:23 [davemincin] expect were in the coast, closer the the water the more expensive

18:16:27 [katdillon] Are you listening to FTL?

18:16:34 [JonM] that much I know

18:16:40 [JonM] but where did you dig him up?

18:16:41 [davemincin] would say for the most part ur talking a couple grand

18:16:43 [madmoon] also, what kind of RE taxes are we talking for a house there?

18:16:55 [FTL_Ian] Someday you could meet him

18:16:56 [PatK] a sandwich is a sandwich but a manwitch is a meal

18:16:58 [davemincin] or close to it

18:16:59 [RussellK] prices are cheaper in Keene that I thought they would be

18:17:06 [erich] see ya

18:17:09 [katdillon] taxes vary from town to town

18:17:41 [RussellK] how much is it for a 2 bedroom apartment in Dover

18:17:41 [FTL_Ian] Hey Underground, are you going to hang and burn a Bureaucrat Shultz effigy?

18:17:49 [FTL_Ian] Inquiring minds want to know

18:18:03 [katdillon] Not planning on it

18:18:06 [RussellK] ian - you never know what people might do

18:18:23 [Nick] The towns around urban areas tend to have lower taxes than the population centers themselves.

18:18:32 [PatK] Dave how much is a six pack of smuttynose beer?

18:18:45 [katdillon] ew

18:18:47 [davemincin] $800-$1000

18:18:53 [RussellK] hmmm

18:19:02 [JonM] I'll guess $6 without having bought smuttynose in years

18:19:04 [katdillon] expensive beer

18:19:07 [PatK] ew?

18:19:10 [davemincin] heck 5 bucks when u find the deals

18:19:30 [katdillon] smuttynose? makes me think of someone with a cold

18:19:44 [FTL_Ian] If you announce it (perhaps during the 25th protest)

18:19:45 [madmoon] lol

18:19:46 [JonM] microbrew

18:19:50 [FTL_Ian] we'll talk about it

18:19:52 [canaan] I have visions of porcupines wandering around aimlessly

18:19:54 [PatK] o-k theese things are important you know

18:19:59 [RussellK] has anyone heard Dada Orwells impersonation of Dave Mincin?

18:20:02 [Nick] Micro brew is overated anyway

18:20:07 [MiclEdlstn] Dave, may I ask you a q about living in NH?

18:20:11 [RussellK] It is to die for

18:20:29 [katdillon] why aimlessly?

18:20:32 [PatK] lol

18:20:32 [PattyE] Hi everyone

18:20:42 [davemincin] I'm paying $650 for a studio, internet cable, phone, utilities included

18:20:45 [RussellK] step right up....your NH ?s answered here

18:20:46 [katdillon] hi patty

18:20:46 [PatK] aDave impersonator

18:20:49 [davemincin] yes go

18:20:49 [JonM] good beer rocks.

18:20:57 [ScottRoth] Hi Patty

18:21:03 [MiclEdlstn] What was the biggest surprise for you after you moved?

18:21:05 [Nick] Amen Jon

18:21:07 [JonM] but they even brew bud in the free state if you're into that

18:21:08 [PattyE] how about Red Hook Nitro?

18:21:16 [madmoon] that sounds kinda high for that small an apartment, dave

18:21:17 [katdillon] beer has rocks in it?

18:21:27 [PatK] Dave are you still allowed to smoke in bars?

18:21:39 [katdillon] the seacoast is more expensive

18:21:40 [davemincin] not really covers all costs...and is month to month

18:21:51 [PatK] Bud is good to clean floors with

18:21:53 [davemincin] yes...smoking the the bars call

18:22:09 [Nick] Not in Keene Dave

18:22:17 [katdillon] hi billy

18:22:19 [RussellK] I was surprised at how friendly the people in NH are

18:22:24 [Nick] Some towns are pushing bans

18:22:42 [davemincin] michael my biggest suprise was the warm welcome we recieved, and how much the natives appreciated our help

18:22:50 [JonM] I do believe the towns were smacked down when they enacted a ban

18:23:04 [JonM] by the state...go figure

18:23:04 [canaan] It's my understanding that you can live in the New England states for decades, and still be considered an 'outsider'

18:23:06 [PattyE] there's a pub in Kingston that has a sign out front "Still Smokin"

18:23:09 [katdillon] Yes, Dave! the natives do appreciate our help

18:23:09 [jgmaynard] Hey HEY!

18:23:14 [RussellK] oh no jim

18:23:15 [MiclEdlstn] Were these non-libertarian natives?

18:23:19 [PatK] IM surprised every time I leave the NY metro area how nice people are

18:23:26 [RussellK] and we were already talking about beer

18:23:32 [jgmaynard] Depends hwo you act, Canaan. LOL

18:23:34 [katdillon] So they say, canaan. I haven't had anyone tell me I was an outsider yet

18:23:40 [RussellK] yes non-libertarian

18:23:44 [davemincin] seems that the locals look at us as the reinforcements and are most happy to have us on board

18:23:45 [katdillon] Hiya jim

18:23:48 [jgmaynard] Oh no! Russ!

18:23:52 [canaan] that's good to know

18:24:00 [RussellK] I love meeting the anti-big government people in NH

18:24:01 [katdillon] Hi fisher

18:24:02 [JonM] ya gotta go north of the notches

18:24:03 [jgmaynard] hiya Kat, Dave and all!

18:24:18 [Nick] I thought I heard something about smoking bans being ruled unconstitutional by the state supreme court

18:24:19 [katdillon] We had two natives show up at our meeting last night to get our help

18:24:26 [davemincin] have talked to many local freedom folks who have said that we have given much energry to lots of folks who have not be active in a long time

18:24:29 [MiclEdlstn] Hi, Jim!

18:24:32 [jgmaynard] Those are the people I grew upp around, Russ..... See what happens? LOL

18:24:35 [ScottRoth] Hi Jim.

18:24:45 [katdillon] That's what I heard, Nick. No one has challenged it in Keene, I gues

18:24:47 [jgmaynard] Hi!

18:24:48 [katdillon] s

18:24:53 [davemincin] hey jim iron city rocks!

18:24:53 [silverfish] jon, forgive my stupidity, but where exactly are the notches?

18:24:58 [RussellK] We had a school board member talking to us yesterday that figured that 75-80% of Keene like what the FSP represents

18:25:01 [jgmaynard] EACTLY, Kat

18:25:03 [davemincin] be sure to say hello to pat for me

18:25:06 [katdillon] same thing we get here, dave!

18:25:14 [Nick] I', a life long native and I'll admit we dont tend to like flat lander, but most people are looking forward to seeing the FSP take off

18:25:27 [RussellK] man jmaynard is taking credit for NH culture

18:25:29 [davemincin] cool...its incredible!

18:25:32 [jgmaynard] I had a lawyer friend of mine tell me as soon as anyone even files a case, the ban in Keene gets thrown out.

18:25:38 [katdillon] Cool Nick. whereabouts are you?

18:25:56 [Nick] Hi Jim

18:26:03 [MiclEdlstn] RussellK: what was his view of what we represent?

18:26:05 [canaan] everyone please welcome BILLY to the chat, he's an authentic cANADIAN (with an open mind)

18:26:11 [jgmaynard] Naw, Russ.... Just making them take credit (or blame) for mw...

18:26:12 [Nick] Nelson NH, 10 mile north of Keene

18:26:23 [jgmaynard] Hi Nick

18:26:25 [katdillon] Welcome, Billy

18:26:33 [PatK] Hi Billy aye

18:26:34 [katdillon] Oh, we go dancing in Nelson

18:26:35 [Nick] Hi

18:26:36 [ScottRoth] Hi Billy.

18:26:39 [Nick] emember me?

18:26:43 [RussellK] lower taxes and such

18:26:46 [ScottRoth] Contra dancin'.

18:26:47 [billy] hello

18:26:49 [Nick] remember?

18:27:01 [JonM] IAN, here's a url of that guy's story

18:27:03 [JonM] http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=322152&category=REGIONOTHER&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=1/11/2005

18:27:09 [MiclEdlstn] Kat: what type of dancing is there in Nelson?

18:27:11 [Nick] Contra dancin I bet kat

18:27:28 [katdillon] Yes, contra

18:27:34 [jgmaynard] So what great mystical questions might I answer? lol

18:27:38 [katdillon] Nelson is really small

18:27:49 [Nick] Jim we met at Keene High School

18:27:55 [RussellK] a real live canadian....are we allowed to talk to him after Patriot Act II

18:27:57 [PatK] how small is it?

18:27:58 [Nick] I like it up here

18:28:04 [katdillon] Jim, what's the meaning of life, the universe, and everything?

18:28:09 [jgmaynard] I remember Nick. Took me a second, but I did

18:28:13 [jgmaynard] 42

18:28:15 [davemincin] many of us are working on setting up a networking system so when you get here we can plug you into whatever freedom issue floats your boat

18:28:24 [jgmaynard] The problem is "what is the question?"

18:28:26 [Nick] Safe from the KPD, you ought to see how many cops are out on main st. at 2 am

18:28:29 [katdillon] there's like 3 buildings in town...it's really cute

18:28:38 [canaan] you have to pay a special tax to talk to cANADIANS now...

18:28:41 [katdillon] really?

18:29:10 [jgmaynard] There are a lot, but they're mainly looking for the ones who always get into trouble.

18:29:12 [billy] but it is in canadian dollars

18:29:13 [katdillon] congrats, Jim! you remembered!

18:29:17 [Nick] I tried to makea meeting with the Monadnock libs but you guys weren't there

18:29:28 [katdillon] canuk tax?

18:29:33 [canaan] and then looking for the ones who don't look like us..... and so on

18:29:38 [RussellK] Michael - all you need to know about NH is that Jim Maynard actually receives votes for city council each election

18:29:47 [canaan] actually, it's the MADCOW part 2 tax

18:29:57 [katdillon] heh

18:29:58 [davemincin] the NHLP state Bo

18:29:58 [jgmaynard] Yeah, don't know why. Our porc meetings are always great, and no one has shown up to the last couple monadnock libs meetings

18:30:01 [FTL_Ian] Just plugged nhunderground.com on air

18:30:14 [jgmaynard] Freightening, isn't it, Russ? lol

18:30:16 [FTL_Ian] There was a young man on named "Ryan" who is in NH

18:30:20 [Nick] 25% Jim, wasn't your total around that?

18:30:23 [jgmaynard] Thanks, Ian!

18:30:25 [FTL_Ian] and has been on the FSP forums

18:30:27 [ScottRoth] Go Ian.

18:30:37 [FTL_Ian] so, hopefully he'll head your way

18:30:42 [katdillon] What kind of networking system are you setting up, Dave? I'd hoped to provide info on all liberty oriented groups on the underground

18:30:53 [jgmaynard] I've gone through 4 elections, getting between 12.5-25%.

18:30:57 [katdillon] hello npkarem

18:30:59 [Nick] I would like to make a meeting but I have two other commitments the night you meet

18:31:13 [ScottRoth] Hi npkarem.

18:31:21 [Nick] Has the vote % been increasing over that time

18:31:28 [RussellK] commitments were meant to be broken Nick

18:31:34 [PatK] Jim will get more votes if he can get Varrin a 30 foot assualt drive way

18:31:37 [jgmaynard] up and down.

18:31:45 [npkarem] Hi, just taking a peek

18:31:48 [davemincin] mostly personal contacts...but jane has the calendar up, contacted to CNHT and GONH, we are also working on a phone tree at NHLA

18:31:48 [katdillon] We may get together at other times. you want me to let you know?

18:31:49 [jgmaynard] At least ONE more, Pat! lol

18:31:56 [Nick] Yeah I may very well break those commitments

18:32:02 [wildboar] Mr. Maynard, what do you need to win?

18:32:19 [Nick] Councilman Coates certainly knows who you are

18:32:23 [katdillon] votes?

18:32:28 [jgmaynard] Mr. Maynard?!?!?? My father is here???? lol

18:32:29 [davemincin] NHLP is also in the loop...as well as the Constitutional party

18:32:35 [jgmaynard] They ALL do, Nick

18:32:40 [katdillon] I think everyone in town knows Jim

18:32:49 [jgmaynard] In any multi-seat race, you need about 40% to win

18:32:50 [ScottRoth] Oh yeah...

18:33:07 [katdillon] The constitution party of monadnock had 30 people show up the other night!

18:33:13 [wildboar] What do you need to do/have to get 40%?

18:33:14 [JonM] he needs other people to forget to run!

18:33:19 [katdillon] cause that Scott Roth guy rocks

18:33:21 [jgmaynard] Not everyone, Kat. There's one store I haven't been in yet. lol

18:33:27 [ScottRoth] This thing can only get bigger!

18:33:32 [Nick] Coates isn't a bad guy though his politics leave something to be desired

18:33:34 [RussellK] lol

18:33:35 [ScottRoth] Thanks Kat.

18:33:45 [PatK] what store is that?

18:34:01 [jgmaynard] door to door activism with nice brouchures is probably the most effective thing I haven't been able to do

18:34:10 [Nick] I'm not a big fan of the constitution party

18:34:14 [katdillon] More questions about NH?

18:34:20 [ScottRoth] Did anyone say nice brochures?

18:34:24 [jgmaynard] Bingo on Coates, Nick

18:34:28 [wildboar] Why haven't you been able to do the brochures?

18:34:36 [jgmaynard] Matter of fact, Scottt, I DID!

18:34:40 [JonM] mr. maynard did!

18:35:01 [ScottRoth] We need to talk further...

18:35:05 [jgmaynard] Ran out of money before ideas both time, WB....

18:35:07 [katdillon] lol @ "mr. maynard"

18:35:12 [ScottRoth] Happy to help.

18:35:12 [Nick] If you need volunteers to go door to door I can help Jim.

18:35:17 [davemincin] believe we need to find allies were we can and concentrate on issues rather than labels

18:35:19 [katdillon] Scott does fantastic brochures

18:35:32 [jgmaynard] I spent the money that could have gone to brochures on refrigerator magnets last time

18:35:37 [katdillon] you're so right, Dave!

18:35:38 [ScottRoth] No complaints...yet.

18:35:40 [jgmaynard] figured they would be seen more.

18:35:41 [canaan] dave..... AGREED !!!

18:35:54 [katdillon] hi otosan

18:35:56 [jgmaynard] Sounds, great, Nick! Thank you!

18:35:56 [Nick] I'd go with brochures next time

18:36:01 [wildboar] How many brochures would you need and what do you think that would cost?

18:36:04 [otosan] hideho

18:36:10 [ScottRoth] Hi otosan.

18:36:13 [MiclEdlstn] Jim: Is Country Life in Keene still open (terrific restaurant!)?

18:36:20 [jgmaynard] Wow.

18:36:22 [Nick] Just a suggestion

18:36:28 [jgmaynard] There's about 10k voters in town.

18:36:37 [ScottRoth] Best vegetarian food around...

18:36:42 [jgmaynard] It is!

18:37:04 [katdillon] wildboar sounds ready for some political action!

18:37:11 [jgmaynard] yeah, I figured brochures would get lost on people's tables

18:37:13 [Nick] IReally, I've never heard of it actually

18:37:16 [PatK] o-k cross country life of my list

18:37:25 [jgmaynard] where they would USE and continually see a refrig magnet.

18:37:28 [katdillon] me neither

18:37:31 [MiclEdlstn] ScottRoth: Do you know of other vegetarian restaurants in NH?

18:37:47 [katdillon] maybe the people who got magnets last year will vote for you, after seeing your name all year

18:37:49 [jgmaynard] So 10k brouchures for full coverage.

18:38:00 [Nick] The might not put up the mag though and they must not be as cheap

18:38:02 [jgmaynard] Hope so, Kat!

18:38:05 [fisher] stusty's in northwood is vegan too

18:38:14 [ScottRoth] There are 2 I believe in Concord, 1 in Laconia and 1 in Manchester.

18:38:34 [jgmaynard] Was about the same $.60 per for 1k, i think

18:38:35 [wildboar] 10K is too many. How much would it cost for 5K?

18:38:52 [jgmaynard] 1 sec

18:38:56 [Nick] I think a lot of us are ready for action, we talk a lot in this project and I think we want to see something happen

18:39:00 [MiclEdlstn] ScottRoth: How could I get their names?

18:39:35 [wildboar] So what you're saying is that you are short $300???

18:39:41 [ScottRoth] I'll do some research for you. Just leave me your e-mail and I'll send a reply.

18:39:46 [jgmaynard] $1000 for 10k full color brouchures from the place I used last time

18:40:09 [canaan] i heard something about inflating property values to get a higher tax, this is not a good thing, how can it be fought off?

18:40:10 [jgmaynard] Don't say that, Nick.

18:40:19 [RussellK] we run cheap races in NH

18:40:23 [jgmaynard] Kat will break out into Monty Python routines. lol

18:40:33 [MiclEdlstn] DrEdelstein@ThreeMinuteTherapy.com Thanks, Scott!

18:40:37 [katdillon] Me? never

18:40:42 [davemincin] currently working with a Dover tax group to rewrite the city charter

18:40:49 [PatK] I would like to see that

18:40:56 [jgmaynard] ScottRoth> jgmaynard@yahoo.com 603-358-5079

18:40:57 [JonM] .10 isn't a terrible price per, but I can print them for half that on a phaser 7300

18:41:12 [Nick] Monty Python fans, another group I'm proud to be part of

18:41:12 [canaan] excellent,

18:41:24 [madmoon] so that's something that has to be dealt with for each community?

18:41:26 [davemincin] the big problem is property reassment is suppost to be revenue neutral, but mostly isn't

18:41:28 [jgmaynard] Cool. Drop me a note, JonM

18:41:33 [katdillon] splitter

18:41:37 [wildboar] Nick is right and what he's saying is true. I mean, if you guys are serious then you might be better off talking strategy than home brew.

18:41:42 [PatK] some day son all this will be yours = what the curtains?

18:41:42 [JonM] it's my work printer

18:42:02 [JonM] but that's the cost per page not counting the printer cost (about $6k)

18:42:20 [jgmaynard] JonM> jgmaynard@yahoo.com 603-358-5079

18:42:34 [Nick] Home brew is a good topic too, I'm just dying to see some libs take office

18:43:11 [jgmaynard] So we have the town elections happening, and warrant articles in the city..

18:43:14 [JonM] a phaser 8200 will set you back $1000 for the base model, $2500 for top of the line, but it's a solid ink printer, 24 pages a minute and someone could do well printing political stuff on it

18:43:15 [katdillon] Jim, that's a public message you're sending of your phone number

18:43:30 [jgmaynard] Kat. You were going to say something about this?

18:43:31 [ScottRoth] I use a Phaser 850.

18:43:33 [katdillon] do /to person for private messages

18:43:36 [PatK] Im not dead ive feeling much better

18:43:38 [jgmaynard] D'OH!

18:43:52 [madmoon] lol

18:43:54 [katdillon] can you open carry your phaser?

18:43:58 [JonM] sorry, phaser 8400

18:44:06 [jgmaynard] Not a biggie. I know most people here, and it's on the FSP site anyways. lol

18:44:09 [JonM] I have an 850 at work... SLOW AS A DOG TWO DAYS DEAD

18:44:13 [RussellK]

18:44:13 [PatK] and is it set onn stun or kill?

18:44:31 [PatK] thats slow

18:44:33 [JonM] but black ink is free!

18:44:35 [katdillon] that's very picturesque, Jon

18:44:39 [RussellK] now I know you guys aren't serious about freedom who could joke like that

18:44:45 [jgmaynard] Anyone talk to Dawn or Bill about their campaigns?

18:44:48 [wildboar] OK, so you want a Lib in office...How much money will it take? We're talking bucks here right? The message is good and there's no reason for people to be afraid of us.

18:44:48 [Nick] Is there an eligeble person who wants to run for mayor in Keene?

18:44:52 [PatK] but still not as slow as the dmv

18:45:04 [JonM] if you can deal with 1 page every 2 minutes doing duplex high quality

18:45:08 [katdillon] Just a little. Dawn was apparently out smoozing last night

18:45:13 [jgmaynard] Woooooooooooo..

18:45:15 [ScottRoth] Hi 2Hotel9.

18:45:24 [jcpliberty] Good Evening all!

18:45:24 [ScottRoth] Hey Jim.

18:45:32 [2Hotel9] Howdy, I just found you guys.

18:45:33 [canaan] ... now we'll see who will be kind or cruel on his phone calls.... *scary music goes here*

18:45:33 [davemincin] talked to both last weekend think the class we had in Manchester was real helpful

18:45:33 [katdillon] hi hotel, jp

18:45:37 [jgmaynard] There's at least one person (a former councilman) who I would LOVE to see run for mayor

18:45:45 [katdillon] what happened at that class, Dave?

18:45:47 [Nick] Money is the one thing we lackbut I'm not a millionaire so I can't help

18:45:50 [ScottRoth] Glad you found us...

18:45:53 [JonM] hey jim, register any domains today?

18:45:55 [jgmaynard] I know she got burnt out on politics a couple years back, though....

18:45:57 [jcpliberty] I see Jim Maynard on, so I am JP for the evening. Hi Jim! Hey Scott, Kat and everyone.

18:46:03 [Nick] What's their name Jim

18:46:15 [2Hotel9] Was kicking around in Milblogs. Someone pointed me this direction

18:46:23 [PatK] I played lotto if I win I will let ya know

18:46:28 [jgmaynard] Nancy Wilkinson. Not sure if she;d run, though

18:46:45 [katdillon] Are you interested in the Free State Project, 2Hotel9?

18:46:51 [Nick] Well it's all up to her

18:46:57 [katdillon] good plan, Pat

18:47:01 [jgmaynard] If she DID, she'd be fully worthy of our support.

18:47:04 [RussellK] man I only rate as an "everyone"

18:47:19 [jgmaynard] AND would stand a good chance at winning.

18:47:19 [jcpliberty] No, not yet. I will get to the domain registration in the morning.

18:47:23 [ScottRoth] Awwww.....

18:47:26 [jcpliberty] Hi Russell!

18:47:26 [Nick] Is she an LP member or not?

18:47:29 [2Hotel9] Have not heard much more than the name. I'm in PA.

18:47:35 [davemincin] mostly we went over how to run for office in small towns...lots of offices crying to have someone run for them, much easier to get elected that the cities, and get your name out there for bigger things later

18:47:45 [jgmaynard] Nope. A friendly Benson-esque Republican

18:48:07 [katdillon] The Free State Project is a plan in which 20,000 or more liberty-oriented people will move to New Hampshire, where they may work within the political system to reduce the size and scope of government. The success of the Free State Project would likely entail reductions in burdensome taxation...

18:48:16 [JonM] non scandal ridden I would hope

18:48:23 [katdillon] and regulation, reforms in state and local law, an end to federal mandates, and a restoration of constitutional federalism, demonstrating the benefits of liberty to the rest of the nation and the world.

18:48:24 [jcpliberty] Hi, 2Hotel9, billy, canaan, Dave, fisher, Ian, Jon, madmoon, MiclEdlstn, Nick, otosan, Pat, PattyE, PrickleNH, silverfish, viscid and wildboard!

18:48:24 [Nick] You're right on dave we could win a lot of uncontested races in the hick towns

18:48:26 [ScottRoth] You copied...

18:48:32 [RussellK] this is for fun 2hotel9 have to go to http://www.freestateproject.org for the official stuff

18:48:37 [jcpliberty] There!

18:48:48 [Nick] Benson was great

18:48:49 [katdillon] Yes, I'm lazy

18:48:56 [silverfish] JP you are the guy who is going to escape from mass, correct? when will that occur

18:48:58 [jgmaynard] Even in cities like Keene, many of the smaller offices (selectman, etc) doesn't even have enough people running to fill the seats, and NO ONE runs a campaign for those offices

18:49:00 [katdillon] I'm hoping for some scandal

18:49:02 [Nick] For a repub

18:49:02 [PattyE] Hi JP!

18:49:06 [PatK] might not want to say hick towns though kinda turns off the voters

18:49:08 [katdillon] hi margomaps

18:49:14 [ScottRoth] But you're quick about it...

18:49:22 [ScottRoth] Hi margomaps

18:49:22 [jgmaynard] MArgo!

18:49:25 [davemincin] catch u Saturday JP

18:49:26 [jcpliberty] Sunday is the official charade. been here since ealry fall.

18:49:33 [RussellK] no more HI JP from me....no sirree

18:49:37 [katdillon] Feel free to fire away on any questions you have

18:49:42 [margomaps] hey Scott, jg

18:49:42 [Nick] I'm a hick though so I get to say it

18:49:45 [jcpliberty] Hey margomapos

18:49:55 [katdillon] quickest paste in town

18:49:59 [jcpliberty] Oh shush Russell! LOL

18:50:09 [2Hotel9] I am politicaly active here. Lotsa heads to smack here!lol

18:50:10 [RussellK]

18:50:11 [margomaps] is that the Greek spelling of my name, margomapos? hey

18:50:12 [ScottRoth] Yep

18:50:23 [katdillon] Careful Russell, you'll be sent to the whining forum

18:50:27 [ScottRoth] In the White Mountains.

18:50:29 [katdillon] lol

18:50:36 [RussellK] 2hotel9 - davemincin moved from PA to NH

18:50:38 [silverfish] and hello Jim Maynard!

18:50:45 [PatK] the notches are on Kats gun

18:50:47 [ScottRoth] Up near Mount Washington.

18:50:54 [PattyE] north of Conway

18:50:54 [katdillon] congrats on your decision to join the FSP, silver!

18:50:56 [Nick] where is here hotel?

18:50:59 [ScottRoth] BANG!

18:51:02 [silverfish] i have been up at waterville valley

18:51:04 [jgmaynard] So how can we help Dawn and Bill for the March election?

18:51:07 [davemincin] a number of folks signed onto run for office Saturday...will take a bit to get the full count

18:51:11 [katdillon] that's not where *my* notches are

18:51:19 [jcpliberty] Up in the White Mountains, the Kangc is the main highway, right there in the middle of them.

18:51:21 [2Hotel9] I'm rural. North of Pittsburgh

18:51:30 [silverfish] my mother in law is a new hampshire 'resident' up there

18:51:35 [katdillon] I figure we can write a couple letters to the editor and hand out flyers

18:51:38 [ScottRoth] Hi solomon484

18:51:39 [jcpliberty] Guess what everyone:

18:51:43 [PatK] Im to scared to ask were they are

18:51:46 [jcpliberty] Hi soloman 484

18:51:47 [katdillon] Dave mincin's from the pittsburg area

18:51:50 [davemincin] Jim thinking they will need people to pass out flyers

18:51:55 [katdillon] what jp?

18:51:57 [davemincin] yes that's me

18:52:02 [jcpliberty] I am running for Nashua Alderman this year :-)

18:52:03 [jgmaynard] We have flyers for them?

18:52:06 [Nick] There's a north of Pittsburgh?

18:52:18 [Nick] Pittsburgh NH?

18:52:21 [PatK] lderman?

18:52:27 [jgmaynard] Go jim. Go Jim....

18:52:32 [davemincin] Hotel i lived north of PGH Sharon for quite a bit..and know most of the area well

18:52:32 [PatK] oops

18:52:35 [Nick] good for you liberty

18:52:37 [RussellK] whatever happened to waiting a few years JP?

18:52:38 [jcpliberty] I bouth myself a copy of the operating budget (yes they CHARGE for it), a copy of the ordinances and charter

18:52:42 [PatK] whats an Alderman?

18:52:47 [jcpliberty] bought*

18:52:50 [katdillon] Not yet. the election is months away and we don't even know Bill's last name

18:52:54 [solomon484] Hello.

18:52:56 [jcpliberty] Like a City Councillor

18:53:03 [davemincin] if your still in the area i can put you in touch with some folks i know there working on putting a group together

18:53:08 [2Hotel9] Yea, its where pittsburghers come to hunt&drink. Or is that drink&hunt?

18:53:10 [katdillon] wow jp

18:53:11 [jcpliberty] We have Alderman instead.

18:53:11 [PatK] o-k thanks

18:53:21 [ScottRoth] He's still young, Russell.

18:53:34 [jcpliberty] http://www.jimcperry.com

18:53:41 [davemincin] Last note from me was for Hotel

18:53:42 [katdillon] he'll be old, come sunday

18:53:44 [jcpliberty] Well, I got really ticked off today, reading the budget

18:53:50 [Nick] Oh I though Pittsburgh was a border town, sorry

18:53:58 [RussellK] hope you are running one of those unopposed races JP

18:53:59 [jcpliberty] So, I decided, if not to win, then at least to educate about the budget.

18:54:06 [jcpliberty] I would run for Alderman

18:54:08 [ScottRoth] whoa, James...

18:54:13 [JonM] jp: what, you'd prefer they print it at taxpayer expense and give it to you?

18:54:45 [jgmaynard] Reading budgets will do that to ya. lol

18:54:50 [jcpliberty] So, I am running to win, but I would at least like to educate the public about their budget if I do not win.

18:55:21 [Nick] In a couple years I can run, Yes

18:55:25 [JonM] there's a town somewhere among those stores in nashua?

18:55:32 [jcpliberty] Well no, but they put it on a "One Use Only" CD. I can download it onto the computer once, but then the CD it self is no good.

18:55:35 [2Hotel9] I have been reading the Oil For Food Report. GOD! Mind numbing!

18:55:52 [RussellK] stores are a town

18:56:00 [katdillon] yeah, the capitalism is rampant in nashua...terrible thing :P

18:56:17 [madmoon] u can turn that cd into a spindle, jp

18:56:22 [jgmaynard] Wow. goodness forbid you should use the disk twice. lol

18:56:26 [jcpliberty] Yeah, 85,000 residents

18:56:29 [katdillon] What did you find out, Hotel?

18:56:41 [ScottRoth] It's only gonna get worse, 2hotel9.

18:57:07 [jcpliberty] Get U.S. Out of the U.N.!

18:57:19 [jgmaynard] So is your election in Nov, JC?

18:57:21 [ScottRoth] Amen, brother.

18:57:23 [madmoon] amen jim

18:57:32 [JonM] nah, get the U.N. out of the U.S.

18:57:39 [Nick] Some good news for the future, when I ran for governor in the Youth and government I gave a straight up speech about what I would do as governor, and that was right along Libertarian lines. I lost by one vote of about 40 and that includes the fact that it was a primary race between us and ConVal, a

18:57:41 [JonM] move em to France!

18:57:42 [2Hotel9] So far? Mismanagement, theft , lying. The usual!

18:57:52 [jcpliberty] Yep, November,

18:57:54 [Nick] And they outnumbered us two to one

18:58:00 [Alkalyne] Hey all

18:58:04 [katdillon] we held a lovely UN flag burning a few weeks ago

18:58:12 [katdillon] hello alkalyne

18:58:16 [jgmaynard] OK. I gonna head. Ciao, all!

18:58:21 [ScottRoth] Hi Alkalyne.

18:58:26 [jcpliberty] Check out my website for details. I will update more as I go along. Be sure to checdk out my campaign store ;-)

18:58:32 [ScottRoth] Take care Jim.

18:58:34 [jcpliberty] Hi Alkaylne.

18:58:37 [Alkalyne] I'm really really interested in all this.

18:58:38 [RussellK] me too hate to leave the fun but bye everyone

18:58:42 [2Hotel9] I saw the pics. Nice job!!

18:58:43 [jcpliberty] Bye Jim!

18:58:45 [katdillon] night, jim

18:59:00 [ScottRoth] Night Russell.

18:59:04 [MiclEdlstn] bye everyone

18:59:08 [katdillon] Great, alk. Are there any questions we can answer?

18:59:14 [jcpliberty] Bye Russell!

18:59:29 [Alkalyne] In fact.. its almost a dream of mine. I've always wanted to see something like this. Well... after waking up to all the tyrrany.

18:59:32 [Nick] I wish I'd known about that flag burning kat, I cut out the article

18:59:32 [solomon484] Later Russell-even if your realted to Bertrand Russell

18:59:35 [RussellK] bye JP

18:59:47 [Nick] bye jim

19:00:05 [jcpliberty] Blech... Bertrand Russell, what did you have to bring HIM up for?

19:00:15 [Nick] That was some extensive press for such a small demonstration

19:00:18 [Alkalyne] Er.. so you guys all live in the same community?

19:00:18 [jcpliberty] LOL

19:00:24 [katdillon] I agree with you there! I felt like I had to do something to stop the tyranny!

19:00:28 [2Hotel9] We have regular shoots here, UN berets and flags.

19:00:38 [katdillon] No, we're all over the state

19:00:44 [jcpliberty] Nashua here!

19:00:44 [katdillon] lol Hotel

19:00:45 [Alkalyne] oh

19:01:01 [PattyE] Seabrook

19:01:03 [Alkalyne] then why is it so imparitive to be in NH?

19:01:09 [jcpliberty] But Keene has an unusually high concentration.

19:01:16 [ScottRoth] It's the only place to be.\

19:01:18 [Nick] Nelson

19:01:19 [Alkalyne] ah

19:01:24 [katdillon] We picked on state with a small population to concentrate on

19:01:35 [Alkalyne] Won't this turn into a huge Waco?

19:01:41 [Alkalyne] worst case senario

19:01:42 [katdillon] that already is pretty liberty friendly

19:01:42 [jcpliberty] On the Free State Project website is a document, 101 Reasons to Move to NH

19:01:46 [davemincin] because we have the opportunty for real change in the direction of more freedom

19:01:47 [2Hotel9] NH has always been a hot bed of freedom.

19:01:48 [katdillon] I hope not!

19:02:00 [Nick] NH is the most free state in the union aswell

19:02:11 [jcpliberty] Indeed.

19:02:19 [katdillon] NH does have good gun laws, though

19:02:24 [jcpliberty] Seethe above referenced 101 Reasons

19:02:44 [Nick] I doubt there will be a waco, what would they get a warrant for, being libertarian

19:02:47 [katdillon] http://freestateproject.org/

19:02:59 [PattyE] I enjoyed my first 3 minute auto inspection (takes half hour in MA)

19:03:08 [katdillon] it's going to be tough to massace people spread out all over the state, anyway

19:03:10 [2Hotel9] Only one gun law 2nd Amendment

19:03:17 [Alkalyne] Nick: They don't need a warrant... they didn't for Waco.

19:03:21 [katdillon] yikes

19:03:35 [PatK] NH=no income tax no sales tax, people friendly to liberty and Dave will buy you abeer what more could you ask for

19:03:38 [Alkalyne] Ture Kat... thats why I asked if it was a community

19:03:41 [FTL_Ian] Violence on the part of the government is not scaring us away from the freedom we deserve.

19:03:42 [Nick] They did have a warrant for waco

19:04:00 [Alkalyne] A warrant for what?

19:04:22 [Nick] If you won't take a risk you wan't get anywhere, nothing ventured, nothing gained

19:04:22 [Alkalyne] FTL: it won't scare me either.. I was just curious

19:04:42 [FTL_Ian] Nick: to play Devil's Advocate, they may not need a warrant if you're a "suspected terrorist"

19:04:51 [davemincin] believe we are talking about a warrant article...like in getting something on the ballot

19:04:52 [katdillon] We can have voilence committed against us even if we weren't doing this. We've got to try

19:05:08 [FTL_Ian] kat: no doubt

19:05:18 [jcpliberty] USA Patriot... no more warrants needed.

19:05:29 [Nick] That's true Ian, Patriot act is to thank for that

19:05:48 [2Hotel9] Been shot at before. Ain't nothin' but a thing.

19:05:52 [katdillon] here's a little project I'm working on: http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=101+Reasons+to+Fear+your+Government

19:06:03 [katdillon] wow

19:06:29 [solomon484] No warrants, no probable cause, and torture if troublemaker.

19:06:34 [Nick] Why were you shot at??

19:06:54 [PatK] husband came home early

19:07:12 [davemincin] anything else about NH?

19:07:13 [Nick] If you don't mind saying

19:07:17 [2Hotel9] Army, 79 to 85. Honduras 82-83.

19:07:31 [ScottRoth] Let's try this again.

19:07:36 [katdillon] lol pat

19:07:56 [katdillon] welcome back, scott

19:08:10 [ScottRoth] Couldn't type anything...

19:08:15 [Nick] I might be going Army next year

19:08:32 [2Hotel9] What MOS?

19:08:37 [ScottRoth] Sorry to hear that. Thanks for trying.

19:09:13 [PatK] X-Navy but nobody ever shot at me

19:09:17 [Nick] I'm thinking MPs, but they are often dployed, I want to go ANG

19:10:21 [Nick] I'm not sure if I'm going, I'm currently in CAP so I get to start as an E3

19:10:30 [2Hotel9] Go Combat Arms. Get it over with right off the bat! LOL

19:10:30 [ScottRoth] Appreciate it...

19:10:32 [davemincin] Later folks...hope to see some of u Saturday!

19:10:44 [Nick] But I'll probably go for a comision regardless

19:10:48 [ScottRoth] Take care Dave.

19:10:48 [katdillon] night dave...thanks for coming. we'll be there sat

19:10:51 [PatK] be good Dave

19:10:57 [Nick] What's up saturday?

19:11:02 [PattyE] Dave - are you going to Nashua on Saturday?

19:11:04 [jcpliberty] bye dave

19:11:12 [2Hotel9] Later, PA

19:11:25 [Nick] You mean weapons specialist hotel?

19:11:26 [jcpliberty] What's in Nashua Saturday?

19:11:29 [FTL_Ian] Hope you military people don't get your asses stop-lossed!

19:12:02 [Nick] I think most of them hope so too Ian

19:12:09 [JonM] stay air force

19:12:19 [Nick] I'm anti Iraq war just to put that out there

19:12:22 [JonM] army tends to get the short shrift on equipment

19:12:30 [canaan] or coast guard

19:12:50 [ScottRoth] No war ever declared.

19:12:56 [2Hotel9] They don't want me, I tend to shoot people. Regardless of current political climate.

19:12:57 [Nick] Air Force tends to be better duty, I'd like to hook up with the air guard at pease

19:13:28 [Nick] You sound like my kind of soldier hotel

19:13:31 [jcpliberty] Well, I am a Conscientious Objector based upon my religious beliefs on top of the fact that the War in Iraq is illegal.

19:13:33 [canaan] .... nothing like the smell of gunpowder in the morning...

19:13:57 [canaan] legal war.... interesting concept..... hmmm

19:14:10 [solomon484] I say the same about depleted uranium.

19:14:14 [Nick] I couldn't get a CO release unless I lied

19:14:34 [jcpliberty] Ah.

19:14:45 [Nick] Liberty, would you kill for any reason

19:14:51 [2Hotel9] People want to kill us, rather do it there than here. And no, it ain't our foreign policy they don't like

19:14:58 [margomaps] sounds complicated. a lot of in's, a lot of out's...a lot of what-have-you's

19:15:05 [ScottRoth] Kat, what's up on Saturday?

19:15:30 [Nick] Legal is an ambiguos term

19:15:54 [PattyE] Seacoast Porcupine meeting on Saturday

19:16:04 [ScottRoth] Ahhhhh......

19:16:09 [jcpliberty] Personal Self Defense or in the defense of any of my friends, if I were present at an initiation of force on their life, liberty or property.

19:16:11 [Nick] Justified is more my peramiter, Afghanistan was justified, Iraq wasn't

19:16:11 [solomon484] What is job situation in NH?

19:16:19 [katdillon] Seacoast porcupines, handing out flyers in Hampton

19:16:31 [PatK] good night all

19:16:32 [ScottRoth] Yep.

19:16:40 [ScottRoth] Nite, Pat.

19:16:40 [katdillon] Russell had no problem finding work

19:16:45 [Nick] Night

19:16:46 [jcpliberty] Night Pat!

19:16:52 [ScottRoth] Jobs are avilable.

19:16:58 [ScottRoth] available.

19:16:58 [Nick] I can't make seacoast saturday

19:17:08 [PattyE] at the courthouse in Hampton, right?

19:17:25 [solomon484] What is pay in comparison to other states?

19:17:30 [katdillon] No, that will be on the 25th

19:17:36 [katdillon] at the courthouse

19:17:40 [Nick] Nothing happening in the monadnock region this wknd?

19:17:41 [jcpliberty] Yeah, jobs are readily available and there are very few business restrictions, so starting your own is easy here.

19:17:53 [Nick] You mean salary?

19:18:00 [ScottRoth] Not top dollar, but not bottom either.

19:18:00 [katdillon] No. Nashua on Sunday though

19:18:09 [PattyE] temp jobs at the Seabrook PO - $13.05/hr

19:18:10 [solomon484] Yes.

19:18:12 [katdillon] We're chaining jcp up

19:18:22 [jcpliberty] Saturday Morning, 9:00 AM Wilton, NH at gary's Harvest Rest.

19:18:31 [katdillon] oh yeah

19:18:35 [canaan] chaining jcp???? are we getting kinky here???

19:18:38 [Nick] Pretty high though I don't have stats to back that up

19:18:39 [ScottRoth] Still on...

19:19:01 [katdillon] We're breaking his bonds from MA

19:19:12 [katdillon] and handing out FSP flyers and such

19:19:40 [solomon484] Where is Seabrook PO?

19:19:42 [Nick] Sounds symbolic kat

19:19:45 [PattyE] did the Eagle-Tribune reporter respond kat?

19:19:56 [Nick] Too bad I can't be there

19:19:56 [katdillon] http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Jim+Perry+chained+up

19:20:03 [katdillon] Nope, Patty

19:20:15 [Nick] New Hampshirites will like that

19:20:28 [PattyE] told him it would be a good story

19:20:44 [katdillon] thanks

19:20:46 [jcpliberty] I am going to have an I Hate Massachusetts bumpah stickah printed up for the car.

19:21:01 [katdillon] lol

19:21:01 [Nick] Anti Mass bias is stronger than most people would think possible in an era where every state is supposed to be the same

19:21:05 [2Hotel9] Did MA flog him at the tail of a CART BEFORE HE COULD LEAVE, KAT

19:21:07 [jcpliberty] Not in tieme though for Sunday

19:21:35 [2Hotel9] Sorr, hit that damn caps lock again.

19:21:45 [katdillon] Flogging, we didn't consider that. you up for flogging, too, jim?

19:22:15 [Nick] I only like mass because I can go to the big concert venues there

19:22:16 [jcpliberty] NO!

19:22:19 [canaan] chaining and flogging.... did the tone of this room suddenly change?

19:22:20 [katdillon] lol

19:22:39 [Nick] C'mon jim take a wippin for the team

19:22:41 [2Hotel9] Jim, you the jcp whats getting chained?

19:22:49 [ScottRoth] He's from Massachusetts. We have to be careful, you know...

19:22:59 [katdillon] Time for me to hit the hay. Good night everyone and thanks for coming!

19:23:12 [ScottRoth] Nite Kat. Talk to you soon.

19:23:18 [jcpliberty] JCPLIBERTY = Jim C. Perry, candidate for Nashua Alderman-at-Large

19:23:19 [2Hotel9] Later on, kat

19:23:22 [Nick] Good night, gad I could make it

19:23:24 [PattyE] bye kat

19:23:25 [jcpliberty] Nite Kat!

19:24:54 [FTL_Ian] To anyone who has voted for my show, thanks

19:24:57 [2Hotel9] Been interesting. I'll be back. Got to get back to my reading. That mind numbing crap ain't going to read itself!!

19:25:01 [FTL_Ian] To those that havent: http://www.podcastalley.com/see_comments.php?pod_id=929

19:25:08 [ScottRoth] Great show, Ian. Glad I found it.

19:25:09 [FTL_Ian] Please take 20 seconds

19:25:12 [FTL_Ian] click there

19:25:18 [PattyE] yqw ian

19:25:18 [FTL_Ian] vote 5 stars

19:25:36 [FTL_Ian] more votes = more listeners = more potential FSP recruits

19:25:47 [FTL_Ian] Thanks Scott

19:25:53 [FTL_Ian] How did you find it?

19:26:31 [wildboar] I'm looking for a nice place to live in NH. Took a tour over New Years and found Jackson (north of N. Conway) and liked that. Anyone familiar with Jackson?

19:26:36 [ScottRoth] A link from one of the liberty websites.

19:27:04 [FTL_Ian] Know which?

19:27:16 [ScottRoth] Jackson. Yeah, nice bridge...

19:27:40 [ScottRoth] Don't remember, Ian. But if I do, I'll e-mail you for sure.

19:28:23 [FTL_Ian] Nice to know who is linking

19:28:26 [FTL_Ian] thanks

19:28:35 [ScottRoth] I've been on SO MANY sites lately...

19:28:40 [FTL_Ian] Have you called your local talk stations?

19:28:42 [wildboar] Yes, nice bridge, golf course, town, view, etc... Is there another town in NH like Jackson so I have something to compare it to?

19:28:43 [jcpliberty] Anyway, I need to go do some prep for going to Hampton tomorrow to hand out flyers. Talk to you all later! Check out http://www.jimcperry.com and buy stuff from my Campaign Store so I can afford to run!

19:28:46 [FTL_Ian] We would love for you to do so

19:28:50 [2Hotel9] Later on, Gang. Got to go.

19:28:51 [jcpliberty] G'night!

19:28:57 [FTL_Ian] bye now jcp

19:29:01 [ScottRoth] See you on Saturday, JP.

19:29:43 [PattyE] where are you handing out flyers in Hampton?

19:29:43 [ScottRoth] Lots of towns like Jackson here in NH.

19:30:09 [ScottRoth] Have to check with JP on that.

19:30:41 [solomon484] Later Room.

19:30:46 [wildboar] Like what other towns? I drove the whole state North/south (not East/west) and didn't see anything quite as nice as Jackson.

19:31:43 [ScottRoth] Well, it is one of the most popular of tourist towns.

19:32:24 [ScottRoth] I wouldn't mind living there myself.

19:32:34 [PattyE] lots to do in Jackson

19:32:46 [wildboar] I';m not necessarily interested in it being a tourist town, just clean.

19:33:51 [FTL_Ian] Where are you at in NH, Scott?

19:33:59 [PattyE] it's near everything, including the Fryeburg Fair in ME

19:34:02 [ScottRoth] Peterborough

19:34:31 [PattyE] another very nice town

19:34:35 [ScottRoth] It's a wonderful town to raise a family in.

19:34:46 [PattyE] a "calendar" town

19:34:50 [ScottRoth] I've been here going on 30 years now.

19:34:54 [ScottRoth] Yep.

19:35:30 [PattyE] always think of the cover of Yankee Magazine when I hear Peterborough

19:35:33 [ScottRoth] Hi silverfish.

19:35:44 [silverfish] hi there

19:35:46 [ScottRoth] Yeah. It's been on it many times...

19:36:00 [silverfish] i was here earlier, had to bring the kids home

19:36:16 [ScottRoth] Welcome back.

19:36:30 [FTL_Ian] apparenly, there are no talk stations in listening range for you to call, Scott

19:36:35 [PattyE] Tuftonboro a fav too

19:36:36 [silverfish] it appears i missed everyone

19:36:53 [silverfish] well not everyone

19:36:54 [PattyE] JonM still with us?

19:36:57 [silverfish]

19:37:06 [ScottRoth] That's right, Ian. Guess we'll have to keep working on that one.

19:37:07 [JonM] who?

19:37:31 [silverfish] how many in here have already made the move or were in NH to begin with?

19:37:54 [FTL_Ian] I wish I was in NH

19:38:03 [PattyE] < grew up in NH, moved to MA for 15 yrs, now back in NH!

19:38:04 [ScottRoth] I've been in NH almost 30 years.

19:38:19 [ScottRoth] Where are you at, Patty?

19:38:23 [silverfish] i went to college in MA at Babson in Wellesley

19:38:30 [PattyE] Seabrook

19:38:39 [ScottRoth] We need to setup a fund to get you up here, Ian.

19:38:53 [silverfish] in the Peoples Republik of Kullifornia now

19:38:54 [ScottRoth] Ahh..., the coast.

19:38:59 [PattyE] oops...correction... moved to MA for 30 yrs...

19:39:18 [JonM] ian can do the ghostcow walk, and broadcast all the way

19:39:28 [ScottRoth] Ahnuldville

19:39:46 [silverfish] how far did that guy walk?

19:39:53 [ScottRoth] Lots of listeners in between

19:40:08 [silverfish] yeah, well Ahhnold isnt all that much better than Gray Davis

19:40:21 [ScottRoth] I hear that!

19:40:31 [silverfish] and all the fruits and nuts near the coast are horrid out here

19:40:34 [ScottRoth] Just smokes better cigars.

19:41:21 [silverfish] well now they are pursuing the illegal alien drivers licenses

19:41:32 [PattyE] ian, when are you planning on moving to NH?

19:41:37 [ScottRoth] So Ian, what do we need to do to get you on the air up here?

19:41:44 [silverfish] which has all the rush limbaugh/sean hannity clones drooling all over the talk radio

19:41:57 [ScottRoth] How do we get radio stations up here to carry you?

19:42:12 [FTL_Ian] When I start making money on this show

19:42:17 [FTL_Ian] patty.

19:42:34 [ScottRoth] I hear that.

19:43:18 [ScottRoth] Well, my wife and I are excited about all of the Fress Staters coming this way.

19:43:29 [ScottRoth] Free Staters.

19:43:33 [FTL_Ian] Scott: that is a good question

19:43:44 [ScottRoth] It'll just make NH even better.

19:43:46 [FTL_Ian] I have every NH talker in my database now

19:43:56 [FTL_Ian] I have not yet spoken with most of the PDs

19:44:30 [ScottRoth] I would love to approach some radio stations here, but I'm afraid I'm a newbie at this sort of thing.

19:44:34 [FTL_Ian] I have encouraged FSPers to contact their local stations

19:44:42 [ScottRoth] But the heart is willing...

19:44:44 [FTL_Ian] Well, so am I

19:44:46 [FTL_Ian] I'

19:45:01 [FTL_Ian] I'm hesitant because I don't want it to seem too contrived

19:45:10 [ScottRoth] I understand.

19:45:15 [FTL_Ian] But I still think it's best to do this, anyway:

19:45:22 [FTL_Ian] http://radio-locator.com

19:45:27 [ScottRoth] Certainly is needed though.

19:45:37 [ScottRoth] Cool. I'll check it out.

19:45:46 [FTL_Ian] find some local stations ( the categories you want are Talk and News/Talk )

19:46:03 [FTL_Ian] Call them during business hours, ask for the Program Director

19:46:12 [FTL_Ian] (usually available in mornings)

19:46:13 [ScottRoth] Gotcha.

19:46:13 [PattyE] you should come here on vacation and guest host

19:46:31 [ScottRoth] There's an idea...

19:46:57 [FTL_Ian] Tell them your favorite show, Free Talk Live, is now syndicated, and you wish it was on their station 6 days per week

19:47:04 [PattyE] then we can all call the station and demand you as a regular!

19:47:23 [ScottRoth] Oh yeah.

19:47:25 [FTL_Ian] Patty, I think if the FSP stays on board with us for a little while we might just come up there for a Porcfest and broadcast live

19:47:45 [ScottRoth] That would be awesome.

19:47:45 [FTL_Ian] I don't know if we can do it this year

19:47:57 [FTL_Ian] It depends on the financial shape we're in

19:48:04 [FTL_Ian] But I can definately see next year

19:48:17 [FTL_Ian] And of course next year we'll be on many more affiliates.

19:48:18 [PattyE] cool!

19:48:34 [ScottRoth] Any way to do a linkup from here?

19:48:36 [FTL_Ian] Scott, are you clear on the process of calling stations?

19:48:48 [FTL_Ian] Anywhere there's a good phone line

19:48:52 [FTL_Ian] We can do a show

19:48:56 [JonM] oh, flights from FL are dirt cheap to logan

19:48:58 [ScottRoth] Yes, thank you.

19:49:02 [FTL_Ian] So we could do it from the campground

19:49:12 [FTL_Ian] assuming their line isn't old and noisy

19:49:12 [JonM] and ya live in a tent!

19:49:27 [ScottRoth] Wouldn't that be great.

19:49:42 [FTL_Ian] Yes, yes it would

19:50:11 [PattyE] excellent idea

19:50:19 [FTL_Ian] Of course, if the FSP foolishly decides to pull their sponsorship, we'll be very sad. That money is going to be seeding some ads in "Talkers" magazine

19:50:22 [silverfish] time to feed the kiddies

19:50:45 [FTL_Ian] We're using it to advertise the show, meaning more stations, listeners, and potential recruits for the FSP

19:50:53 [ScottRoth] Take care silverfish.

19:51:10 [FTL_Ian] cya silverfish

19:51:13 [PattyE] nite silverfish

19:51:19 [ScottRoth] Is it a print, or electronic mag?

19:51:25 [FTL_Ian] Print

19:51:29 [PattyE] why would the FSP pull sponsorship?

19:51:33 [FTL_Ian] It's THE talk industry publication

19:52:19 [FTL_Ian] I dunno.. radio advertisers get scared, if after one month they haven't gotten results

19:52:21 [ScottRoth] Found it.

19:52:47 [JonM] that would require decision making ability, wouldn't it?

19:52:50 [FTL_Ian] they don't realize that it's a long term process

19:53:03 [ScottRoth] Advertisinf usually is.

19:53:08 [JonM] it could take months of discussion to decide if it isn't working

19:53:09 [ScottRoth] advertising

19:53:16 [ScottRoth] Long day...

19:53:28 [FTL_Ian] That's good JonM, because we're about ready to sign a contract with Talkers

19:53:38 [JonM] besides, you are pulling in some recruits

19:53:58 [FTL_Ian] and we were concerned that we'd have to cover the difference if the FSP gets scared

19:53:59 [PattyE] so we get a list of advertisers and buy stuff from them and let them know where we heard about them?

19:54:01 [JonM] domino effect and all

19:55:07 [JonM] FSP is too decentralized to get all scared, you have the guy who decided to give you the sponsorship to worry about and not much of anyone else

19:55:17 [FTL_Ian] We're convinced that we're the best advertsiing opportunity for the FSP, period. I just hope Robert Hull agrees.

19:55:28 [FTL_Ian] Right, Mr. Hull is the man

19:55:48 [JonM] the more stations that pick you up, the better

19:55:51 [PattyE] brb - gotta go take killer NY-Style cheesecake outta the oven (you hear that JonM?)

19:55:58 [FTL_Ian] Patty: having a list of sponsors to give you would be great

19:56:02 [JonM] you ever plan to charge for the feed, or will it all be based on advertising?

19:56:18 [FTL_Ian] EXACTLY, Jon

19:56:42 [JonM] that was an either or question!

19:57:26 [FTL_Ian] I don't have those plans, but if our bandwidth consumption cranks up, and advertising can't cover it, we'll ask for donations, then maybe create an elite level of archives for $$$. But I love giving archives out free, so I don't see that going away

19:57:42 [FTL_Ian] The exactly was for your earlier line

19:57:48 [PattyE] maybe you could post a list of sponsors in the FSP forums

19:58:21 [FTL_Ian] Patty: we have no sponsors yet, EXCEPT the FSP

19:58:23 [FTL_Ian]

19:58:43 [FTL_Ian] Once we get into enough markets, there is a company standing by who will sell our spots for us

19:58:44 [PattyE] oh...

19:58:53 [FTL_Ian] And we're not too far away from that point...

19:58:58 [JonM] how many is enough?

19:59:22 [JonM] have you talked to WRKO yet?

19:59:33 [FTL_Ian] Depends on the AQH

19:59:45 [FTL_Ian] Average Quarter Hour listener count

19:59:53 [JonM] michael savage just makes me dive for the FM button

20:00:01 [JonM] but I don't know what ratings he pulls in boston

20:00:05 [JonM] you should

20:00:09 [FTL_Ian] He's our biggest competitor

20:00:27 [JonM] what, laura isn't?

20:00:31 [FTL_Ian] I have called RKO several times and haven't yet hit the PD

20:00:45 [FTL_Ian] Savage is EVERYWHERE, and PDs love him.

20:01:09 [PattyE] PDs?

20:01:17 [JonM] program directors

20:01:22 [PattyE] ah

20:01:23 [FTL_Ian] Sorry

20:01:28 [FTL_Ian] Program Directors

20:02:13 [FTL_Ian] That may be an effective call to a Savage affiliate: "I always shut off your station when Savage comes on, if you really want controversy and me as a listener, replace him with FTL"

20:03:06 [FTL_Ian] I won't leave messages though, so a message from a listener to the RKO PD might be useful when I finally connect with him.

20:03:18 [JonM] before or after?

20:03:54 [ScottRoth] Well, time to hit the sack. 4AM comes around real fast. Have a great nite, folks. Thanks for the info Ian. I will see what I can do here.

20:04:04 [FTL_Ian] before

20:04:14 [PattyE] i called WRKO to protest when they first put Savage on, and I wrote a letter to the station

20:04:17 [FTL_Ian] I have a feeling it will be a little while before I get him

20:04:27 [FTL_Ian] Thanks Scott.. I look forward to hearing about your results

20:04:49 [FTL_Ian] WRKO 617-779-3400 PD: Mike Elder

20:04:52 [ScottRoth] I'll let you know. Keep up the good work, my friend.

20:05:18 [PattyE] nite Scott

20:05:32 [ScottRoth] Nite Patty.

20:05:39 [JonM] do you know what the talk ratings in boston are?

20:06:18 [FTL_Ian] I do not

20:09:23 [FTL_Ian] There are 2 Boston PDs that I have spoken with

20:10:49 [FTL_Ian] WKOX 1200 / WXKS 1430 - Dennis Oheron

20:11:05 [FTL_Ian] 781-396-1430

20:11:27 [FTL_Ian] They are "progressive" format. Simulcasting

20:11:46 [FTL_Ian] I'm trying to follow up with him

20:12:18 [FTL_Ian] If he's anything like other "progressive" PDs, he'll tell me he's 100% Air America by contract... but we'll see.

20:12:52 [FTL_Ian] The other station is WTTT 1150 - Jim Carter

20:12:58 [FTL_Ian] Jim describes himself as a Libertarian

20:13:06 [PattyE] http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRRatings/DetailsPage.aspx?MID=35&RY=2004&RQ=4&MP=2&OTHER=2&MN=Boston&MS=MA&MR=9&12P=3888800&UP=12/15/2004%2012:00:00%20AM&SU=CM&BPER=6.1&HPER=6.2&OPER=&NSD=1/18/2005%2012:00:00%20AM&CE=0

20:13:10 [FTL_Ian] But he works for "Salem Communications"

20:13:43 [FTL_Ian] they are "family friendly". He claims to have pitched it to his General Manager and the "Corporate programming guy".

20:14:06 [FTL_Ian] I'm scheduled to follow up with him in a week.

20:14:40 [FTL_Ian] WBZ is on the shitlist. He only wants local shows

20:14:43 [FTL_Ian] Too bad

20:15:27 [FTL_Ian] wow.. that's helpful Patty

20:15:31 [FTL_Ian] Bookmarked

20:17:01 [JonM] you'll be local eventually

20:17:03 [FTL_Ian] If you want to call Jim at WTTT: 617-328-0880

20:17:22 [FTL_Ian] I sure as hell don't want to work in Boston

20:17:28 [JonM] I don't think I've EVER hit 1150 on my radio

20:17:30 [FTL_Ian] I like my home studio

20:17:52 [JonM] brudnoy broadcast from home

20:17:59 [FTL_Ian] Hmm.. apparenly they aren't even rated

20:18:27 [JonM] on the AM dial I pretty much hit 680, and 96.9 on the fm

20:18:34 [JonM] but TKK has laura in that time slot

20:19:29 [FTL_Ian] TKK would be a great affiliate

20:19:38 [FTL_Ian] I have yet to speak with that PD

20:19:45 [FTL_Ian] Paula O Connor

20:20:01 [FTL_Ian] 617-822-9600

20:20:13 [JonM] laura has come to boston quite a few times

20:20:40 [JonM] and frankly, she may be a right winger, but she's cuter than you

20:20:49 [PattyE] she likes the Four Seasons...

20:21:52 [JonM] WRKO's broadcast is like due north and south, I remember I could barely pick them up on 495 in Boxborough which is northwest of boston

20:22:33 [JonM] and apparently jay severin is kicking howie carr's ass in the ratings

20:22:58 [JonM] now jay is SCARY looking, he was made to be a radio host

20:23:55 [PattyE] i'm liking the "Independent Man" lately

20:24:44 [JonM] you have a longer drive than me, I tend to hear commercials

20:26:02 [PattyE] John DiPietro

20:26:06 [JonM] you need to call him up and promote the FSP patty!

20:26:32 [PattyE] yeah, but not good to hear that show... means I'm on the road at 10:00 am... late for work again!

20:27:05 [FTL_Ian] I wonder who is winning between Ingraham and Savage

20:27:08 [FTL_Ian] in Boston

20:27:12 [PattyE] maybe we both could call him up, eh?

20:27:34 [PattyE] hope Laura is winning

20:27:38 [JonM] laura has a better lead in

20:27:52 [JonM] but wrko doesn't subscribe to arbitron

20:28:15 [JonM] though arbitron does track them...

20:28:25 [JonM] they tend to have older listeners

20:28:41 [JonM] http://www.animaux.net/stern/boston.html

20:29:57 [FTL_Ian] Yes. TKK would be the best affiliate in Boston

20:30:10 [FTL_Ian] but as you can imagine, we'll take anything we can get

20:30:16 [JonM] you'd displace laura, and I would be forced to hate you.

20:30:38 [FTL_Ian] Having ANYthing in Boston, would get us the AQH we need to be saleable.

20:30:44 [JonM] last summer she went off the air to re-tool or work on the book or something

20:30:48 [FTL_Ian] Jon, you don't have a chance with her

20:31:12 [PattyE] don't worry ian, he hates me too, because i can buy gas for $1.64/gallon... heh

20:31:18 [JonM] of course not, but she has a much more pleasant voice than the other hosts

20:31:59 [JonM] wrko used to have a larger audience, they were just old folks, don't know if that's still the case

20:32:38 [JonM] and howie is kinda libertarian...kinda

20:32:45 [FTL_Ian] To each his own, I find her a bit grating

20:33:00 [JonM] as compared to savage?

20:33:17 [FTL_Ian] I just dislike him

20:33:55 [FTL_Ian] It's not fair to compare a woman's voice to a man's

20:34:08 [FTL_Ian] Compared to other women, Ingraham is grating

20:34:22 [JonM] savage is just angry

20:34:56 [PattyE] Laura is a female Imus

20:35:35 [PattyE] agree - savage is a very angry man

20:36:06 [JonM] the daily show keeps playing a clip of a city councilman winging something at a tv reporter's back

20:36:46 [FTL_Ian] Laura is politically the Female Rush

20:37:54 [JonM] speaking of someone who should be a libertarian by now

20:38:07 [JonM] the drug thing shoulda pushed ya over the edge rush!

20:38:17 [FTL_Ian] He's a coward

20:38:22 [FTL_Ian] Just like the rest of them

20:38:53 [JonM] rush is good at what he does

20:39:45 [FTL_Ian] He absolutely is

20:40:13 [JonM] I listened to a lot of air america when I was in florida

20:40:18 [JonM] they're not.

20:40:26 [FTL_Ian] If he has principles, he's a coward. IF the doesn't, he's ignorant.

20:40:37 [FTL_Ian] They are not cowards?

20:40:48 [FTL_Ian] Or not good?

20:41:08 [PattyE] or not american?

20:41:18 [JonM] not very good at what they do

20:41:36 [FTL_Ian] I wish them much failure. Because when the "majority report" tanks, then FTL will be right there waiting.

20:42:23 [JonM] well, eventually they'll run out of things to whine about

20:42:45 [FTL_Ian] Someone said, "I've got a great idea! Let's do liberal talk!"... then they realized there really aren't too many REAL talk hosts to choose from, so they threw some big name socialists behind mics.

20:42:55 [FTL_Ian] I haven't heard any of it, and don't want to

20:43:25 [JonM] fraken is a smart guy, does some funny bits, but seems a bit disconnected from reality

20:44:03 [JonM] after reading bias and arrogance, now I see why

20:44:05 [FTL_Ian] http://www.airamericaradio.com/shows/majorityreport/

20:44:11 [JonM] in his world, everyone really does think that way

20:44:28 [FTL_Ian] Look at that jackass with the bowtie. If that didn't SCREAM "boring", read the show description!

20:45:26 [JonM] when did jeanane become blonde?!?!

20:45:36 [JonM] learn something new every day

20:45:41 [PattyE] they look like a SNL skit

20:45:46 [FTL_Ian] By the end of this year I want Savage to know his days are numbered.

20:46:27 [PattyE] they might be numbered anyway... his blood pressure must be sky high

20:46:28 [FTL_Ian] These goofs on AA are just destined to fail.. what idiot programs this network?!

20:46:31 [FTL_Ian] "Singer and songwriter, Nellie McKay. She will talk about various forces that influenced the lyrics in her critically acclaimed debut CD, Get Away From Me."

20:46:34 [FTL_Ian] WHO CARES!

20:46:44 [JonM] someone with deep pockets if I recall

20:48:07 [JonM] I did hear the guy who wrote grandma got run over by a reindeer on air america

20:48:27 [PattyE] whatever you do... DON'T click on the "honeymooning in the Carribbean" link! ewww

20:48:28 [JonM] he was amusing, he's a vet, people kept calling in asking about their pets

20:50:46 [JonM] did you watch Tilt patty?

20:51:12 [PattyE] only a few minutes of it...

20:51:45 [PattyE] while some guy was getting beat up in an alley

20:51:54 [JonM] that was the end

20:52:00 [PattyE] yep

20:52:05 [PattyE] was it any good?

20:52:08 [JonM] its on...many more times

20:52:32 [JonM] why, in 8 minutes in fact!

20:52:39 [PattyE] i was busy creating the perfect cheesecake

20:52:56 [JonM] what of pie?

20:53:27 [PattyE] pie is for others... cheesecake is for...

20:53:39 [JonM] what? NO PIE?

20:53:45 [PattyE] lunch tomorrow!

20:54:10 [PattyE] what's wrong with a PERFECT ATK NY STYLE cheesecake????

20:54:28 [PattyE] the best one I have ever made... btw

20:54:59 [FTL_Ian] Alright, I'm out

20:55:07 [FTL_Ian] THanks for your help, guys

20:55:09 [FTL_Ian] good nite

20:55:10 [JonM] PIE

20:55:14 [JonM] night

20:55:32 [PattyE] night ian, great to chat with you

20:55:48 [PattyE] pie. pie. pie. pie. pie. CHEESECAKE.

20:57:05 [JonM] custard pie

20:57:21 [PattyE] you should make one!

20:57:41 [JonM] some day

20:57:47 [PattyE] how about apple pie for sunday?

20:57:51 [JonM] later

20:57:54 [PattyE] FSP Pie

20:58:17 [JonM] you're gonna make a porc topped pie?

20:58:19 [PattyE] if i can remember how to make a pastry porcupine...

20:58:25 [PattyE] lol

20:58:38 [PattyE] sure

20:59:17 [JonM] well then.

20:59:41 [PattyE] if reporters are there it may get it

20:59:56 [PattyE] it's picture in the paper

21:00:16 [PattyE] but how will i ever get home...

21:00:37 [JonM] go to work after

21:00:42 [JonM] then you'll be fine

21:00:55 [PattyE] well, guess I'll go give Tilt a try... while my perfect cheesecake is cooling

21:01:08 [JonM] besides, 495 is probably a better route to seabrook

21:01:27 [PattyE] is the best way

21:01:48 [PattyE] 111 is way too north

21:02:41 [PattyE] did you see the state of the state speech tonight?

21:02:44 [JonM] then you're all set

21:03:19 [JonM] nope

21:03:55 [PattyE] first time in a long time that I have watched it from another state