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Communication Strategies For Building Consensus

From a chat workshop with Dr. Michael Edelstein • 10/20/04

Assume responsibility for your role in a dialogue. Do what you can to improve the process. (As good as it may feel for the moment, resentfully criticizing others for communication breakdowns doesn't help and often accelerates a downward spiral.)
Bring up and then address one issue at a time.
Remain positive and give the other person the benefit of the doubt. For example, if you suspect they may be using a sarcastic tone, assume the best.
Respond only to the constructive content of a message. Ignore, when possible, sarcasm, innuendo, name-calling, etc. (It's usually possible). This helps avoid escalation.
Avoid accusations, especially overgeneralized ones, such as: "You never...", You always...", "Why can't you...?", "I can't believe you said that," etc.
Say "Please," "Thank you," "I apologize," "Great idea!," etc., generously. These words are the lubricants of communication– especially "I apologize." ;-)
Before criticizing a position, consider feeding it back to the person advancing it, to confirm you've understood it.
Do not label the individual you're speaking with, e.g., "You're a troll," "You're intolerant," "...disrespectful," "...oblivious," "...obnoxious," etc. This rarely helps and often makes matters worse. Similarly, calling their arguments stupid, destructive, "I can't believe you said that," etc. is poor technique.
Keep in mind that "agreeing to disagree" is usually a fine option when stuck in a communication rut. There's often no right or wrong in our disagreements. Differing opinions may rest on different styles, proclivities, or comfort levels.
If you wish someone to communicate more constructively, offer a specific suggestion and begin it with "I prefer..." For example, "I prefer you not call me intolerant. Rather, please cite specifically what I said that you disagree with."
If you feel the process is breaking down, discuss this with the other person. Collaboratively work to improve it by focusing on future behavioral change, rather than by assigning blame for past communication difficulties.
State negative feelings in a positive way by stating the other's best self, e.g., "I know you're a tolerant person," or "You often have excellent ideas." Then let them know you feel they're not living up to their usual high standard.
If you're communicating by computer, consider moving to the telephone should communication get stalled.
Give positive feedback, praise, appreciation, "atta boys" wherever possible.
Preface constructive criticism with positive feedback.
If disengaging is a viable option with someone who seems generally angry and negativistic, politely end the dialogue. Alternatively, consider suggesting ending it for continuation at a future date, when one (or both of you) will have had a chance to collect your thoughts and calm down.
Keep in mind that everyone is a free agent with free will, consequently you can't force anyone to understand or agree with you, no matter how self-evident your view seems to you.
Remind others–and yourself–of our common goal: to build a free society. Consequently, collaboration, rather than one-upmanship, is essential.

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Free State Project – Talking Points

by Amanda Phillips • 6/7/04

I thought that some of you might find this helpful... these are the talking points that I give to media folks before we do an interview. Most interviews don't cover everything, but this helps give the host some ideas on what they might be most interested in talking about. (I'm constantly updating & revising these, so make sure you do the same if you rip these off & use them for yourself). Also, feel free to e-mail me any time if you'd like the latest version of the talking points.

Overview of the FSP
- Plan to move 20,000 freedom activists to a small state where we can make a difference
- when we reach 20,000 committed participants, then we start to move
- demographics (mostly young, upwardly mobile, professional, educated)
- are we associated with any political parties?
- are we moving to specific areas within NH?
- why the porcupine as the mascot?
(small-l) libertarianism
- believe in personal & economic freedom
- what kinds of personal freedoms? Why?
- what kinds of economic freedoms? Why?
- what would an ideal libertarian society look like?
- won't there be chaos?
History of the FSP
- how did it get started?
- Jason's idea as a Yale grad student
- the research -- other migratory movements
- we created the Statement of Intent & the Participation Guidelines... only after we reach 20,000 commitments do we start to move
- we researched 10 small population states and decided on NH as the best choice
- high profile friends & endorsements (Governor Benson, Walter Williams, LP presidential candidates)
Why NH?
- extensive research on the states, membership voted on NH
- NH has many political, cultural, economic advantages
- small population + 400-seat legislature
- a libertarian culture ("Live Free or Die")
- near a major economic center
- strong projected job growth
- Governor signed on as a Friend
- legislators make $100/year
- constitution is only one in the world that protects the citizens' right to revolution
Status of the FSP today
- 5,800 participants
- about 300 in NH today
- expect many more to move this summer
- Randall Wolfe's Walk to NH
- Free Staters appointed to Governor's Task Force for Government Efficiency
- 2 Free Staters in the NH State House
- HOW TO JOIN!

At this phase in our plan the Free State Project needs, above all else, more participants!

Volunteer Center

Recruitment Challenge

The January 2006 Free State Project Recruitment Challenge

Results are in!

The official January signup count is in and we welcomed 60 new Participants! This result is well above our usual January doldrums. The January Recruitment Challenge was generously sponsored by the Tennessee Local Group and then matched by Vince Silvia and John P. Cunningham of Massachusetts. All three are donating $10 for each new January signup (Vince up to $500), so with 60 new Participants, the total donated comes to $1,700.

Thank you to our kind sponsors, and a special thanks to each and every one of the 60 new people who joined the FSP in January!

(2/12/06)

The members of the Tennessee FSP local group are committed to the future success of the FSP. We have worked hard in 2005 to recruit new members to the FSP. Participants and Friends of the FSP posted recruitment flyers on college campuses from Chattanooga to Memphis. We appeared on two talk radio shows and set-up a table at the 2005 Gandhian Conference on Nonviolence. We also gave speeches at a couple Libertarian Party county meetings and set up a table at the state Libertarian Party convention.

However, we could have done much more, and much more is exactly what we plan to do in 2006. The TN FSP will start off the year with a recruitment challenge for our comrades:

For every member that joins the FSP in January 2006, the TN FSP will donate ten dollars to the FSP.

This is the perfect opportunity for fence sitters to hop off the fence and into the Free State. Need an excuse to have a local group meeting? Use this drive as the excuse. Need that extra incentive to post recruitment flyers around your town? Use this drive as the excuse. Over the last few months, the FSP has gained around fifty new members per month. Fifty times ten dollars is five hundred dollars. We're prepared to contribute that and more—make us give more! More money for the FSP means more money for recruitment. More money spent on recruitment means even more new participants.

01/15/06 Update: John P. Cunningham (of Massachusetts) has also matched the pledge. He will donate $10 to the FSP for each new membership in the month of January 2006 - up to $10,000!

12/18/05 Update: Vince Silvia (of Massachusetts) has pledged to match the TN FSP with an additional $10 for each new membership in the month of January 2006 – up to $500. And he challenges any other FSPer to match him!

Excited about recruiting new members in January 2006? Excellent. For useful resources, see the following parts of the FSP website:

Join the FSP

Letters to the Editor

General Tips

Sample Letters

Miscellaneous tips

First, some general tips:

It is always best to contact the paper you are interested in submitting a letter to and ask to speak to the department dealing with letters to the editor. You should then find out what the length of the letter should be, and where it should be sent to. If you send a letter that is too long, they may simply not publish it.
Always include your full name, address, phone number and e-mail address with your letter. Your article will most likely not be published without providing this basic information.
Mention the freestateproject.org website as a resource for more information.
Please mail or e-mail a copy of your letter to info@freestateproject.org and indicate whether we can publish it on our website. Note that if you succeed in publishing three LTEs in one year, you will qualify for The Advocates' Lights of Liberty award!.
Keeping your letter brief will help assure that your important points are not cut out by the newspaper.
Send letters to weekly community newspapers too. The smaller the newspaper's circulation, the easier it is to get your letter printed.
Make references to the newspaper. While some papers print general commentary, many will only print letters that refer to a specific article.

Some sample letters for you to use or customize:

Dear Editor:

I love Massachusetts, but I can't stand this kind of persecution. The government has gone too far this time! [Here follows a description of this week's persecution and why it is harmful.]

I'm leaving for New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project (www.freestateproject.org) because I want to be free! I've finally found a group of people who share my passion for freedom and are willing to do something to achieve it. I want liberty in my lifetime, so I'm joining the Free State Project and moving to New Hampshire.

(Contributed by A. Phillips)

Dear Editor: I am writing to address the [incident, event, article, other letter] of [date], in which [brief summary]. The critical issue is ___. The Free State Projectoffers a[nother] [solution, answer, viewpoint, perspective]; that is: ____. [Brief description of the FSP]. The folks at the FSP have for several years [list relevant goals, achievements relating to the subject of the letter]. I think this may be the answer in this case. Applying the stated goals of the organization [explain application]. Conclusion. (FSP Rules, of course! - ;)

(Letter by Ernie De Bella published in the Everett, WA Herald on February 23:)

Dear Editors:

Boy was I surprised to see the article on the Free State Project (Libertarians look for a state to call their own 2/23) in my local paper. It was a pleasant surprise actually.

I subscribe to the Herald specifically because of the focus on local issues which this paper does a fantastic job of doing. But when you select interesting articles like the one about the Free State Project (FSP) it really helps round out the paper.

I'm not a Libertarian but I do have a strong libertarian (notice the difference in spelling) streak running through me and have signed up for the FSP in hopes that the movement can be successful in promoting freedom in our country.

I haven't been disappointed in the project so far even though it's still in it's infancy. What makes FSP all the more impressive is they haven't sold my name to any outside agency so I don't get a bunch of extra junk mail.

How refreshingly different from every other organization and business I've given my name to and how nice to read about it in my local paper.

Thanks again Ernie De Bella Edmonds WA

(Contributed by B. Nelson)

Dear Sir: I am writing to inform your readers of a group in which some, at least, might be interested: The Free State Project (FSP). This group is a direct result of the frustration many of us feel at the over-reaching power of Government that has slowly and surely insinuated itself into our everyday lives, sometimes in direct opposition to the mandates of our Constitution. We have come to the realization that perhaps the only hope we have of truly availing ourselves to the life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness promised in our Constitution is to join with other like-minded individuals and peacefully settle in an agreed-upon state. Once there, we will begin a lawful process of decreasing the state's intrusion into its citizens' lives--includingsuch taxes and fees as we are able.Ourgoal is 20,000 members, and our numbers are steadily increasing. I understand that this forum is has space-limitations. I therefore invite anyone interested to visit the FSP website: http://www.freestateproject.org or write to the FSP at: [insert address]. Respectfully, [name]

(Contributed by J. Eiland)

Do You Want Liberty In Your Lifetime?

If you're like many Americans today, you're probably thoroughly disenchanted, even disgusted, with the current political climate in our country. Politicians on both sides of the aisle compete with one another to come up with bigger and better schemes for taxing you and spending your heard-earned money in order to please their special-interest supporters and party bosses. You may even be looking around and seeing your own neighbors wanting the government to take care of them, and wanting YOU to fit the bill.

Do you look forward to a time when government might once again protect you from those who want to pick your pocket instead of actively aiding and abetting them? Would you rather be free to live your own life without worrying about what special interest group is trying to force you to conform to their agenda?

Chances are, you may be looking around and thinking that change is not possible, that the heritage of freedom that we as Americans hold so dear may be fast slipping through our fingers, that your children may grow up in an America where "liberty" is increasingly a foreign word, and state control of the smallest details of our lives is increasingly a reality. If you've ever had any similar thoughts to the ones described here, then you should know that you are not alone. There are others like you, who long for a return to liberty and the rule of law in its proper place: protecting, not exploiting, the citizen.

The Free State Project (FSP)is an effort by liberty-minded people like you who have just such a vision in mind:a return to freedom, individual responsibility, and liberty in our lifetime. How is this possible?

The plan is simple: Five thousand freedom-minded persons will gather together in order to choose one state in the Union that is ideal for reasserting our traditional American ideals of individual liberty and responsibility. Once the state is chosen, the original 5000 hope to draw 15,000 or more like-minded persons who will join them in moving to this state and using their combined resources and influence to put government back in its place and protect individual liberty.

The FSP is currently one year old and has already signed up 1228 members, thus it is already well on its way to the first milestone of 5000 members, and ever closer to its ultimate goal of working for a truly free state in our great American Union. If you haven't heard of the FSP yet, you will soon.

Does a free state sound like something worth working for? Does the idea that you could be truly free in your own lifetime, and have a chance to pass on a truly great American legacy for your children as well, touch on some hidden hopes that you still have that change can really come? If so, or if you just have questions and want to know more, I encourage you to stop by the FSP's website (http://www.freestateproject.org), and take a look at their material. There you'll find state data tables, an informative list of frequently asked questions, and discussion forums where people just like you are currently working to make this vision a reality.

So if the current political climate has you wondering what liberties you might lose in the coming years, or what legacy your children stand to inherit, please consider the Free State Project and the enormous potential that its success would mean to us all. It's a new andvery real chance for liberty in your lifetime.

(Contributed by R. Hawes)

Miscellaneous tips:

If you're feeling more ambitious, one of our members (Tom Knapp) has developed a booklet specifically for writing libertarian op-eds. Click here for more info: www.rationalreview.com/press
See the interesting article A Verbal Arsenal for Your LTE's by Dada Orwell.

Volunteer Center

Golden Porcupines

Word of mouth continues to be the most effective recruiting tool for the Free State Project, and we wish to recognize the efforts of our most outstanding recruiters.

Downloads

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Publicity Workshop

Publicity Workshop - Chat - 11/30/04

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

18:07:19 [katdillon] Thank you for coming, everyone. Tonight we have Steve Cobb, FSP Publicity Director here

18:07:39 [katdillon] to talk about FSP publicity

18:07:39 [BaldEagle] Yay! (applause)

18:08:10 [katdillon] Steve, you certainly can offer an agenda

18:08:36 [scobb] Okay, then I'll start.

18:08:39 [scobb] Hello everyone. Thanks for taking the time to get involved!

18:08:49 [scobb] While the #1 goal here is to gather and share information from all of you, I thought a reasonable agenda would be for me to

18:08:57 [scobb] 1. Define briefly the publicity framework

18:09:03 [scobb] 2. Mention a few of the current FSP activities and resources

18:09:09 [scobb] 3. Describe some the types of talent and resources that we are missing.

18:09:55 [scobb] Some of you are in the leadership, and so have had the chance to see the draft Publicity Plan that I recently uploaded. Much of this text will come from there, though there is too much to repeat here.

18:10:11 [scobb] The goal of Publicity is to move people into 3 succeeding stages of attitude: Awareness --> Positive Attitude --> Enthusiasm

18:10:46 [scobb] I could think of 5 different categories of people that we might target: 1. Influential libertarians, 2. Donors, 3. Self-identifying libertarian potential participants, 4. Non-identifying libertarian potential participants, 5. NH population

18:12:07 [scobb] Of the two extreme general strategies (1. Target libertarians in their likely hideouts, and 2. Shotgun the general population ), I tend to lean towards the first one.

18:13:37 [scobb] If we shotgun our publicity efforts, we'll hit few libertarians and lots of statists. I believe that though the majority of libertarians are now in the Awareness stage about the FSP, we could do a lot more to move them towards Enthusiasm. To date, we have had the attitude that people will pack th

18:14:05 [clhfreeguy] Hi, Phil, long time no see (3 minutes) Chris

18:14:07 [scobb] their bags as soon as they find out about the FSP. We need more persuasive arguments.

18:14:44 [scobb] Phil Denisch is key to part of the publicity strategy: Merchandise!

18:15:05 [amanda42] steve - i actually disagree that the majority of libertarians know about us - i would say that the majority of *online* libertarians know about us. i still find people off-line who haven't heard of us

18:15:21 [svillee] I agree with Amanda

18:15:28 [katdillon] same here

18:15:31 [RussellK] me too

18:15:50 [BaldEagle] Yeah, there are people out there who are "libertarians" that didn't even know we were running a presidential candidate this election - let alone that there's the FSP

18:15:54 [scobb] We have advertised in every libertarian periodical, right?

18:16:02 [amanda42] but i agree with everything else - targeting libertarians is super important

18:16:42 [RichT] yeah, just b/c someone is a libertarian (even big-L) doesn't mean they are more aware of what's going on.

18:16:44 [amanda42] i'm just saying... when i went to freedom summit in arizona, more than half the people there didn't know anything about us

18:16:51 [BaldEagle] I find that "libertarian" periodicals are only read by activists. We might as well be trying to recruit our navels.

18:17:07 [BaldEagle] Look outside of the typical libertarian communication avenues

18:17:08 [scobb] What we have not yet tried is direct mail, but that is a centralized function that is now finally grinding into motion, so we probably don't need to talk about it here.

18:17:15 [RichT] Remember that a lot of libertarians hate politics, so may not be paying any attention to our current marketing.

18:17:34 [BaldEagle] Find pockets of like minded individuals and target issue-specific groups

18:18:33 [svillee] Libertarians are hard to reach, because they are suspicious of the media, including "libertarian periodicals"

18:18:44 [scobb] If the mines with concentrated ore are mined out, then we will have to mine places with lower concentrations. But the lower the concentration, the more expensive and time consuming.

18:18:49 [BaldEagle] Computer people tend to be very libertarian, bikers, home schoolers, and maybe 1/3 of gun owners

18:19:09 [scobb] Would such suspicious libertarians make good activists? Maybe we don't need that kind.

18:19:51 [clhfreeguy] Good point Steve

18:20:10 [BaldEagle] I dunno man, I can get pretty "black helicopter" paranoid, but I try to be a good libertarian and a good patriot too

18:20:44 [amanda42] lots of libertarians are busy with their businesses & families, and they don't spend time on politics or libertarian periodicals because they like to spend their time in successful endeavors. we need *them* in the fsp

18:20:47 [RichT] Here in NH, we have seen the benefits of wide-scale coverage (and some marketing), generating a favorable impression of the FSP so we can generate prospects and move folks from the knowledgable to the interested category.

18:21:05 [svillee] Computer magazines might be a good avenue. Also gun magazines.

18:21:25 [amanda42] i stopped subscribing to liberty & reason years ago when i discovered that i had no free time to read them. (of course, i subscribed again after they featured us!)

18:21:51 [BaldEagle] We've got the carrot, now we just need to draw people's attention to and highlight the statist sticks they are getting beaten with day after day

18:22:12 [scobb] I would say Computer and Gun magazines not for paid advertising (very expensive, very low return), but for *articles*.

18:22:15 [amanda42] richt, that's awesome. but what we need most right now is publicity outside of nh so we can get more people to join.

18:22:24 [katdillon] Steve's publicity plan for download: http://www.soulawakenings.com/FSPPublicityPlan.doc

18:22:30 [BaldEagle] I really liked the ad with the HS kids on the floor at gunpoint

18:22:38 [RussellK] It also seems repetition helps...so people know we are still alive and kicking

18:22:49 [RussellK] outside of NH

18:23:00 [katdillon] I agree totally about the articles

18:23:03 [Friday] thanks, Kat

18:23:04 [RussellK] I keep meeting people that know and like us in NH

18:23:06 [scobb] Evan's recent article in the gun nut (just kidding--don't shoot me!) magazine is a prime example.

18:23:31 [RichT] I agree Amanda, I've been saying that for a while. I'm encouraged by some of the ideas I've been hearing. I'm not up to speed on what's being done.

18:24:16 [katdillon] I've been kicking around writing an article for homeschool magazines

18:24:36 [BaldEagle] I've been thinking about making up some trifold fliers for the Porcupine Festival

18:24:48 [BaldEagle] o highlight the fun and freedom and downplay the politics

18:24:56 [katdillon] nice idea

18:25:04 [scobb] "for" the festival or "about" the festival?

18:25:09 [BaldEagle] and putting them in gun stores, Walmart, gun shows, gun ranges, etc

18:25:29 [katdillon] to draw people to the freestate via the festival

18:25:30 [BaldEagle] Also local political meetings where people see the horrors of zoning

18:25:51 [BaldEagle] We have to go in under the radar

18:26:06 [RichT] Whenver I travel out of state I find opportunities to put FSP cards or flyers out where people will see them.

18:26:09 [katdillon] Some people will be drawn by the idea of living near so many like minded people

18:26:18 [BaldEagle] Give people what THEY want before we ask them for what WE want

18:26:45 [scobb] Good stuff, but Walmart? Not a libertarian hangout, but that brings up a point: decentralization! We should provide the resources for every individual to publicize according to his own preferences and priorities.

18:27:17 [BaldEagle] They have those bulletin boards where people hang business cards and stuff

18:27:21 [BaldEagle] Walmart sells guns

18:27:23 [katdillon] people buy guns at Walmart

18:27:29 [George] Maybe we could target Joe libertarian sixpack at Walmart...

18:27:33 [BaldEagle] Seemed natural to me

18:27:48 [clhfreeguy] you know Kat, that is for real, when you get so frustrated to have like minded folks near by is really important

18:27:55 [amanda42] basically, i take fliers & cards with me everywhere i go & i look for places to drop them

18:28:22 [katdillon] That's one of the coolest things about living in NH

18:28:31 [BaldEagle] I used to bring stuff with me onto the DC metro and leave it behind on the seat when I left the car

18:28:51 [scobb] Let me ask a question: what resources do people need from the central organization to facilitate their activism?

18:28:58 [BaldEagle] at every stop I'd move from car to car doing an impromptu literature drop

18:29:17 [PhilD] money

18:29:32 [Friday] what Phil said!

18:29:36 [TimB] Steve, Graphics support for advertising layouts!

18:29:36 [BaldEagle] bulleted lists that summarize why people might want to move to NH or attend the festival

18:29:50 [svillee] fliers and cards

18:29:57 [BaldEagle] I agree with Tim, but not with his color choice

18:30:04 [katdillon] We do need graphics help...all of us

18:30:07 [RichT] From central - Literature, proven ideas, local contacts, encouragement.

18:30:16 [TimB] Sorry BaldE...I'm changing it.

18:30:27 [katdillon] Bill, you've seen the 101 Reasons to Move to NH?

18:30:31 [amanda42] resources needed: fliers, info, speakers,

18:30:32 [scobb] Graphics help is also my #1 need. Tim, try again!

18:30:50 [Friday] Gov. Benson was still in the 101 Reasons, last time I checked

18:31:00 [amanda42] what resources do amway & mary kay provide their people?

18:31:04 [katdillon] He's still in office

18:31:06 [BaldEagle] Yep, good point, Kat.

18:31:28 [amanda42] friday, i had a *ton* of updates to the 101 reasons that i sent to michelle & still haven't seen yet. she's a busy lady.

18:31:32 [BaldEagle] Pens and notepads with "FSP" on them

18:31:37 [TimB] Ooh...nice question Amanda, I don't know. Cheerleading seminars

18:31:37 [katdillon] amanda, Varrin's wife does Mary Kay. I pumped her for info about that the other day

18:32:13 [katdillon] I need printed envelopes from the FSP

18:32:24 [RichT] Amanda, you still have those powerpoint slides we used for the FSP "promo tour

18:32:38 [amanda42] steve asked what resources we need from hq... i was just thinking about what other organizations do

18:32:41 [katdillon] One of the big things people get from Mary Kay is comraderie

18:32:59 [BaldEagle] If we had a running list that was sorted by ideas that people voted for, it would be easy to look at whatever other people have already come up with

18:33:03 [TimB] A continuation on ad graphics support....we've not been able to get local volunteers so we're looking for a freelancer to hire.

18:33:13 [Friday] don't forget the pink cadillacs

18:33:20 [katdillon] and printed FSP header paper...blank with just a logo and stuff

18:33:28 [BaldEagle] so as not to duplicate efforts, and it could act as a checklist in case people like me forget something they wanted to work on

18:33:42 [amanda42] rich, they're wicked out of date - they had all 10 states listed on them. i update it every time i use it. if anyone wants a powerpoint presentation, drop me a note. aphillips@freestateproject.org

18:34:36 [katdillon] Maybe we could ask Dave Mincin to try and find a graphics person

18:34:39 [clhfreeguy] Steve, please tell us your opinion as to what is the most powerful pr/adv tool to reach our 14,000

18:34:46 [scobb] Hiring paid help is expensive, but at least the job gets done.

18:35:06 [TimB] Exactly

18:35:13 [scobb] Looking back at our more successful moments, we get few signups from advertising, and more as a result of articles in respected places, like Reason Magazine or a Walter E. Williams column. I personally thus favor the strategy of 'persuade the persuader'.

18:35:21 [Toonces] Three cheers for Amanda's use of the adjective wicked... man I miss NH...

18:35:39 [RichT] LOL

18:36:03 [katdillon] Yes, the numbers support steve's strategy

18:36:13 [TimB] So....we start a list of local persuaders and strike up relationships?

18:36:22 [RussellK] I agree with you stevec

18:36:23 [svillee] Okay, so who are the influential libertarians who need to be persuaded?

18:36:27 [katdillon] Great idea

18:36:34 [Friday] whatever happened with the guy from "the Man Show"?

18:36:36 [RichT] Articles seem to come from two things - generating news, or having an interesting story to tell. What can the FSP do to get one or both?

18:36:39 [amanda42] toonces - that's wicked pissah

18:36:55 [amanda42] yep, target the magazines & the influential libertarians

18:37:07 [scobb] svillee, you just asked the $64 question.

18:37:07 [TimB] We've got a local shock-jock that we suspect is libertarian leaning and couple members have said they would try to contact him, but have not delivered

18:37:11 [RussellK] the story to tell is all the people moving richt

18:37:16 [TimB] Chicago that is

18:37:17 [Toonces] For what it's worth, I had heard about the FSP at college (in UNH) but actually go interested (and realized it was a bonafide movement) when I heard Jason on NPR's This American Life... I don't know if advertisements will ever really get Free Staters...

18:37:37 [BaldEagle] I had an idea about using file-sharing networks like Kazaa, WinMX, eMule, etc.

18:37:40 [amanda42] the man show... doug stanhope still has us linked from his website - we get a lot of hits & recruits from him.

18:37:55 [Toonces] I think most Free Staters are (and I can say this with a smug amount of self-righteousness here) not the type to be persuaded by any advertisement or short media spot.

18:37:57 [scobb] The $64K question is how to persuade them to actively help us, i.e. move to the Enthusiasm stage.

18:38:12 [BaldEagle] Make MPG or AVI ads for the FSP, do short videos of the shooting range,

18:38:12 [Friday] Penn Gillette just got married; let's send him a card :-)

18:38:13 [amanda42] like walter williams

18:38:17 [katdillon] how so Bill?

18:38:31 [scobb] Friday, good idea! How to get his address?

18:38:33 [BaldEagle] People send these things around by email

18:38:39 [BaldEagle] They share them with friends

18:39:00 [svillee] Based on Doug Stanhope's website, I'd say he's quite enthusiastic.

18:39:03 [katdillon] Penn and Teller seem to know about us, just not endorsing us

18:39:18 [BaldEagle] Other people use their own resources to spread them around, and we don't pay for postage or anything

18:39:27 [svillee] Have they said why?

18:39:44 [Friday] press@penn-teller.com

18:39:53 [katdillon] don't know

18:40:53 [RichT] Penn&Teller did promote Badnarik during their act in Vegas. Now that the campaign is over, if we can interest them in the FSP, they might promote us.

18:41:00 [Friday] my dream endorser: Clint Eastwood

18:41:26 [BaldEagle] Not Clint, Mel Gibson!

18:41:48 [BaldEagle] The Patriot, Braveheart

18:41:52 [Friday] methinks Mel is NOT a libertarian

18:42:08 [RichT] "FREEDOM!!!"

18:42:08 [Friday] hey, I was talking politics, not looks ;-)

18:42:14 [Toonces] That could be a lot of fun. I'd love to make this magic trick where a FSP volunteer vanishes off a Las Vegas stage and winds up in New Hampshire...

18:42:27 [BaldEagle] Learn to use people and what they've already done to sell what you've got

18:42:29 [Toonces] No, Mel is more of a papal stormtrooper than a libertarian...

18:42:33 [amanda42] isn't there a forum thread about this? libertarians whom we'd love to have on our side

18:42:34 [clhfreeguy] Mayor Clint eastwood, banned ice cream on the sidewalks of carmel

18:43:20 [TimB] Forum thread....it'd be a nice start....no recreating the wheel

18:43:21 [BaldEagle] But what he said in the movies is unalterable - use clips from the movies to stir people up

18:43:28 [scobb] Let's not worry about semi-maybe-libertarian celebrities. There are plenty of real, self-identifying libertarians of influence, and we need to get them on board. A simple endorsement is a good first step. Kat did a great job getting an endorsement out of the president of the Mackinac Center.

18:44:03 [TimB] We've had a local member working on a Cato Institute contact he has

18:44:17 [RichT] We still looking for endorsements or words of support from NH personages?

18:44:44 [katdillon] Yes Rich. We'd like welcome messages from lots of NH residents

18:44:59 [amanda42] richt, that would actually be helpful. it would show some of the naysayers outside of nh that we're welcome here

18:45:07 [svillee] How about emailing people who do regular columns on sites like Lew Rockwell? Ask them for their frank opinion of the FSP.

18:45:17 [katdillon] like these: http://freestateproject.org/about/endorsements/welcome.php

18:45:19 [BaldEagle] There's a guy named Kim DuToit who runs a website and does "Ammo Day" - we might get a lot of hits if he put some FSP ads on his site

18:45:22 [amanda42] svillee, yes! great idea!

18:45:39 [RichT] I'll ask the folks who say they're happy the FSP is coming if they'll make their feelings more public.

18:46:30 [katdillon] Anthony Gregory, who writes for Lew Rockwell, was hanging out on our forum, so I asked him for an endorsement

18:46:40 [scobb] If someone can give me names and addresses of influential libertarians, we (the Ricks) have 30 high-end packets waiting to mail to them.

18:46:42 [katdillon] He said he was thinking about doing an article on us

18:47:00 [Friday] I know Anthony; I can bug him

18:47:15 [katdillon] Cool, thanks Friday!

18:47:54 [Friday] Clint Eastwood really IS a libertarian; I know that's reaching, though

18:48:03 [katdillon] Rich, you could write one too

18:48:40 [clhfreeguy] I talked with Lew rockwell about 2-3 weeks ago and asked him if we might have some common connections and he was very standoffish, I was taken aback because the Ludwig Von Mises Institute is very hard core Libertarian and we should have liaisons. I am now contacting FEE in NY I think they may be m

18:49:11 [RichT] I'll put it on my list...

18:49:22 [clhfreeguy] more receptive

18:49:29 [katdillon] cool

18:49:41 [svillee] Did Lew articulate his concerns at all? I'd really like to understand them.

18:50:19 [BaldEagle] The band Poker Face that played at the LP National Convention is a great way to reach media, young people, esp. college campuses

18:51:12 [Friday] I have tried ascertaining the leanings of the Violent Femmes, but no luck yet

18:51:18 [BaldEagle] I think the biggest obstacle that people have brought up and are most concerned about is the job market and NH economy

18:51:27 [scobb] We need some polished people to apply the hard sell to Lew Rockwell and the rest of the libertarian establishment: their current methods aren't "working", and endorsing us won't cost them anything. It's time for them to walk the talk, if they really believe it.

18:51:46 [BaldEagle] If we successfully address that issue, we'll make major headway

18:51:55 [clhfreeguy] Well he seemed to intimate that since his organization was not really a join up type of group that we wouldn't have much in common. I didn't buy that but did't want to be too confrontative on first visit. I will contact him later but hopefully with ;more inside contact like the guy hangin out on

18:52:15 [katdillon] polished people, amanda or jason?

18:52:35 [clhfreeguy] our site, maybe you could get his name and address.

18:52:35 [scobb] Perhaps some local NH people could partner with an employment agency?

18:53:58 [katdillon] Evan's plan of moving businesses to NH should help the job market

18:53:59 [scobb] Amanda and Jason, for example. Not our loose cannon types, and preferably people with credentials. Dr. Edelstein, for example--my brother in SF was aware of him!

18:54:12 [clhfreeguy] Steve, I totally agree with you on that. They are not an island but I think they think they are

18:54:16 [scobb] That is, aware of his support for us!

18:54:17 [RichT] The job market here is ... interesting. High tech is still very selective. Office work is easy to come by.

18:54:32 [katdillon] (don't send me!)

18:54:56 [Friday] <-- completely unravelled cannon

18:54:58 [BaldEagle] Oooh. Office work. Why didn't you say so? Count me in!

18:54:59 [amanda42] i'm happy to work on people if you guys want to point me in someone's direction

18:55:41 [BaldEagle] Massad Ayoob

18:56:21 [scobb] Amanda, where is Randy Barnett's endorsement?

18:56:39 [BaldEagle] Dr. Alexander Shulgin

18:56:59 [TimB] What's up with Badnarik? He's participant right? Any possibility of getting him to be more active?

18:57:13 [amanda42] that's the influential libertarian lawyer i was anonymously mentioning. i need to take him out to lunch again. work has been tough for me lately so i haven't been able to get out for lnch

18:57:29 [katdillon] Seems like he'd have time now, but I heard he was going to run for governor or something in TX

18:57:41 [svillee] I think a meeting between Amanda and Lew Rockwell could be very productive, if it could be arranged.

18:57:42 [BaldEagle] Mas seems very republican/conservative, but he's a NH resident and HIGHLY respected in the gun community

18:58:21 [clhfreeguy] Amanda, you can try Lew Rockwell, maybe the fem touch will work better also Dr. Richard Ebeling at FEE 914-591-7230 (Foundation for Economic Education) They were just in Georgia (Russia)

18:58:33 [BaldEagle] Shulgin is a HUGE figure in the "drug subculture" and writes lots of articles about freedom and ending the drug war

18:58:37 [amanda42] in my experience, these things tend to work best if you accidentally bump into each other at a libertarian event. i'd be happy to schedule meetings with people and don the power suit

19:01:28 [PhilD] I looking for a volunteer to keep track of the LP conventions over the next year

19:01:41 [PhilD] ure we have a presence at as many as possible.

19:01:47 [katdillon] have they been losing conventions?

19:01:51 [amanda42] so who else should we target? what other influential libertarians can we approach? and how do we contact them?

19:01:58 [svillee] I agree, it may be best to find some event Lew is attending, and accidentally bump into him there.

19:02:01 [Friday] let me know how I can help, Phil

19:02:03 [PhilD] and make s... (should be in there)

19:02:23 [svillee] What are some big names at the Cato Institute?

19:02:49 [PhilD] please to fork over email or contact me at pdenisch@freestateproject.org

19:02:54 [RichT] PJ O'rourke lives in NH. I think someone asked him about the FSP (or was it the LP?) in an article.

19:02:59 [Friday] Dr. Tom Palmer

19:03:11 [katdillon] would targeting more activist groups be better than targeting these groups based on discussing theory, like Cato and Lew Rockwell?

19:03:20 [Friday] Phil, my email is scitarel@yahoo.com

19:03:31 [amanda42] i've already spoken with pj - oddly, he seems too busy selling books to want to help us

19:03:45 [scobb] Target them all! The important thing is that they be influential.

19:03:55 [katdillon] PJ O'Rourke lives not too far from me

19:04:10 [scobb] Kat, could you get his address?

19:04:18 [amanda42] and i think he must be gay because he is the first libertarian guy i've never been able to persuade with a wink & a smile (while still wearing a professional power suit, of course)

19:04:36 [amanda42] just kidding about pj - who else should we contact?

19:04:36 [katdillon] I'll check the phone book :P

19:04:44 [katdillon] lol

19:04:48 [Friday] oh, Toonces...

19:05:07 [BaldEagle] No, he's definitely gotta be gay

19:05:15 [amanda42] tom palmer is a good idea - maybe we can get adam or kate rick to accidentally bump into him down in washington

19:06:31 [clhfreeguy] Hey no joke, this bumping into idea can really work

19:06:38 [scobb] Kate at least occasionally visits Cato. I will probably move there in January, so I will visit often also. It would be helpful to have some logo promo items to leave behind there, like puzzle key chains.

19:07:28 [PhilD] Speaking of merchandise...

19:07:44 [svillee] Kate may have already bumped into everyone at Cato worth bumping into

19:07:56 [PhilD] should we have a non-fsp branded item that might be popular inthe general liberty public?

19:08:17 [PhilD] something like a tshirt with "I'm liberty-minded...and you?"

19:08:26 [BaldEagle] Porcupine-brand alcohol, tobacco, and firearms?

19:08:35 [RichT] the stuffed/puppet porcupines were very popular, people still ask about them.

19:08:50 [svillee] I want one of those!

19:09:14 [katdillon] Phil are there still porcupine crossing signs?

19:09:19 [PhilD] Note made, I'll check into getting some.

19:09:24 [amanda42] i have the ordering info - i'll have to check with the leadership circle before i can order the porcupines

19:09:40 [amanda42] or i can pass the info along to phil & steve

19:09:53 [katdillon] ordering porcupines...that's gotta be worse than herding cats

19:16:06 [scobb] Another topic: who could be project manager for the "Lose Your Chains" campaign? That was Evan's idea to get into Guinness Book of World Records for most chains contributed/collected. We would announce the results at PorcFest, and have the chains made into an objet d'art. guinnessworldrecords.com

19:16:36 [BaldEagle] I could go to the Porc Fest from Richmond, accidentally via DC

19:16:42 [PhilD] How long does it need to be - is it doable?

19:16:46 [scobb] I'm not big on publicity stunts, but I think this would attract the right attention.

19:17:25 [BaldEagle] My god, do you know what the shipping on that many chains would be?

19:17:34 [RichT] Speaking of outside-NH publicity, how goes the regional PorcFests?

19:17:55 [BaldEagle] There are regional ones? :O

19:18:04 [scobb] Each person would ship just a single, small chain, to someone near PorcFest.

19:20:58 [BaldEagle] Who is running the regional festivals, and when?

19:21:31 [RussellK] I think Brian Sullivan has one going in upstate NY

19:21:44 [RussellK] and there is talk of LA or Vegas

19:21:56 [amanda42] we had a small turnout at the one in ny, but it was still a good time

19:22:07 [amanda42] we should do more of the regional ones

19:22:29 [RichT] How was the promotion before and coverage after?

19:22:45 [RussellK] exactly rich

19:23:00 [scobb] I see no mention of regional Porc Fests: http://www.freestateproject.org/news/festival/ , http://www.freestateproject.org/community/localgroups/

19:23:56 [scobb] Wouldn't we rather have one big annual Porc Fest, and spend the rest of the year focused on recruiting?

19:24:43 [amanda42] regional porcfests are good for recruiting - get free staters and non-free-staters in the same place at the same time for a nice little party

19:24:50 [BaldEagle] Depends - I like the idea of a smaller, but less isolated Porc Fest - have it near something else that's big and get people's attention

19:24:55 [katdillon] I think people getting together to talk is the best way to get them active

19:25:29 [amanda42] a lot of people want to meet their fellow porcs before they'll join - the regional porcfests give them that opportunity.

19:25:38 [BaldEagle] We could reach a lot of people through "leakage" from a larger, more mainstream event

19:25:53 [amanda42] if we publicize the regional porcfests correctly, we can get local media attention out of it

19:26:03 [RussellK] I kindof like the idea of 2 fests that is floating around

19:26:07 [katdillon] man, talking about Depends and now leakage

19:26:31 [amanda42] there's no mention of it on the site because the ny one has come and gone. there were lots of mentions when brian was planning it

19:27:22 [BaldEagle] OK Kat: Go take a time-out in the corner and eat your Olestra potato chips

19:27:38 [scobb] As long as these fests really are a means to an end, and don't become a distracting feel-good end in themselves...

19:27:46 [katdillon] it's time for me to take an all night time out

19:28:08 [katdillon] God, we wouldn't want to enjoy life along the way

19:28:27 [scobb] I wrote a haiku about Olestra once: Pooh-pooed Olestra, succumbed to its temptation, poo-pooed Olestra.

19:28:44 [BaldEagle] Raising morale and getting people pumped with a taste of what the Free State can be like is a laudable goal in itself

19:28:47 [katdillon] good one

19:29:03 [amanda42] having a good time at a regional porcfest *is* a recruiting tool

19:29:14 [BaldEagle] Exactly

19:29:27 [BaldEagle] Plug the fun, not the politics

19:29:49 [scobb] Yes, but...we have a growing tendency to take our eyes off the prize. I understand that it *might be* a good recruititng tool , but it can also easily be a distraction.

19:29:50 [BaldEagle] We're recruiting Americans, not Soviets

19:30:08 [RussellK] If I don't have fun at a local group meeting ... I would stop showing up

19:30:47 [BaldEagle] Yeah, I'm losing steam at my county government meetings

19:31:19 [BaldEagle] All zoning and no political debate makes bored out of my stinkin' mind

19:31:25 [scobb] Look, no one is saying we shouldn't socialize and have a good time, but if the FSP becomes a club instead of a movement, it will fail. We invested an unbelievable amount of effort into PorcFest 2004.

19:31:30 [amanda42] fyi, new england town meetings are a *lot* of fun. i'm serious

19:31:42 [scobb] Show me the numbers.

19:32:20 [BaldEagle] Right, but the goal is to plug the fun to people OUTSIDE of the FSP, and use it as a recruiting tool and a way to generate material for media

19:32:27 [amanda42] lots of people visit the porcfest before the decide to sign up with the fsp

19:32:47 [BaldEagle] Whatever happened to the documentaries that were being made?

19:32:49 [amanda42] mrs edelstein joined at our 2004 porcfest, for example, while dr edelstein has yet to sign up

19:32:55 [katdillon] Thanks for coming everyone. Good night! If someone could do a /save and send me the transcript, I'd appreciate it.

19:33:10 [svillee] remember that second stage of publicity: positive attitude. comes from having fun.

19:33:15 [BaldEagle] Sure, Kat.

19:33:19 [amanda42] lots of people joined at the escape to nh in 2003

19:33:25 [amanda42] goodnight, kat

19:33:40 [katdillon] thanks Bill!

19:33:43 [BaldEagle] Good Night, say Hi to Kira

19:33:44 [scobb] Good point, svillee. We should be inviting VIPs to PorcFest 2005.

19:33:49 [amanda42] and we got a few great media stories out of porcfest 2004

19:33:55 [PhilD] 'night Kat

19:34:18 [amanda42] it's about the only thing we do anymore that is newsworthy

19:34:27 [PhilD] Does Varrin have anyone big on the list yet?

19:35:34 [BaldEagle] Yes, Steve. A major big-time blowout Freedom orgy where anarcho-capaitalists have a great time, don't break any laws, and do a service to the community

19:35:35 [scobb] PorcFest 2004 was definitely a success. I'm just leery of decreasing reward, if we have more for our own feel-good benefit rather than out of practical considerations.

19:35:36 [RussellK] he is trying for walter williams

19:37:05 [amanda42] steve, the idea for the regional porcfests came out of a brainstorming session with the fsp-doers on things we could do to recruit more locally

19:38:15 [scobb] Well, anything that gets people more involved.

19:39:41 [scobb] I have to be going soon myself. Does anyone have something more they want to suggest or, better yet, a project they want to run with?

19:39:59 [amanda42] maybe they're working really hard to save the money so they can move

19:40:26 [PhilD] Not that isn't already on the burner.

19:47:40 [scobb] It seems to me that the server or network has slowed down, so maybe this is a good time to close the session?

19:48:17 [PhilD] I think that's about it for me - G'night

19:48:39 [svillee] sounds like a plan. good night.

19:49:08 [BaldEagle] I thought it was just my crappy machine coupled with dialup from Richmond to MD and using Internet Exploder

19:50:11 [BaldEagle] Anyone can email me for any reason at creativechemist888 - at - yahoo - dot - com

19:51:39 [scobb] Yeah, time to sign out.

19:52:08 [BaldEagle] Thanks Steve, good night

Volunteer Center

Liaisons Workshop

Liaisons Workshop with Chris Harrison - Chat - 12/14/04

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

18:00:45 [Chris] Hi all and welcome to the Liaisons chat this evening. Boy is it ever cold down here in alabama.

18:01:08 [Randall_W] Same here in Kentucky; brrrrr

18:01:20 [Randall_W] The NHers are probably laughing at us =)

18:01:46 [Chris] Tonight we want to discuss those things that you have used successfully in your endeavors to recruit FSP members. Anyone can start the ball rolling

18:02:05 [HardyInVT] We have snow in VT. The low temp for tonight is 17 degrees

18:02:25 [katdillon] It's 18 degrees right now in keene

18:02:33 [Chris] We are going into the teens in AL also.

18:03:22 [Randall_W] My way of recruiting probably won't help others much, but I've found the best way to go is to start teaching people about punk rock philosphy, then libertarianism, then the FSP

18:03:31 [Randall_W] while making sure not to use too many big words =)

18:03:53 [Randall_W] Most people get confused if you get into economics or anything too deep

18:03:54 RussellK enters this room

18:03:55 >[RussellK] Welcome to our chat. Please obey the net etiquette while chatting: try to be pleasant and polite.

18:04:19 [Chris] Hi Russell

18:04:29 [HardyInVT] oops, 17 was the high. 3 is the low tonight.

18:04:36 [RussellK] Hello

18:04:38 [Randall_W] Welcome Russell

18:04:57 [RussellK] I follow much the same pattern as Randall

18:04:58 [katdillon] Someone signed up recently because of Randall

18:05:09 [Randall_W] Yar, my friend Patrick

18:05:17 [Randall_W] with signs from his family and friends on the way

18:05:19 [RussellK] except where do you teach people about moose?

18:05:35 [Randall_W] LMAO

18:05:52 [RussellK] I thought I recognized Corbin KY

18:05:53 [danhynes] i lived in nh my whole life and never saw a moose, only on dumb road signs

18:05:59 [danhynes] err ny

18:06:03 Erethizon enters this room

18:06:05 [Randall_W] Most people know that story without me mentioning it =P I still get stopped by random people on the street and asked about my walk and such =P

18:06:36 [RussellK] So when do you do another publicity stunt?

18:06:51 [Randall_W] I volunteered to get arrested not long ago, hehe

18:06:58 [danhynes] what for

18:06:59 [RussellK] It worked so well last time even though we didn't plan it enough or anything.

18:07:05 [Randall_W] I'm back in action and ready for more stunts as they are thought of =)

18:07:08 [Randall_W] =P

18:07:11 [danhynes] i wanna do that but my fiance yells at me

18:07:35 [RussellK] get arrested danh?

18:08:00 [danhynes] i tell her martin luther kind was arrested, and then she says it was for a good cause, and i say the fsp is a good cause

18:08:03 [danhynes] yea

18:08:19 [RussellK]

18:09:18 [Chris] So you NHites, what is happening in the soon to be Free State?

18:09:57 [svillee] it's getting cold

18:10:07 [Randall_W] hehe, I bet

18:10:54 [svillee] A few other people are moving into the Berlin area. Dave Mincin points them my way.

18:11:05 [Chris] How much sunshine do you have up there in the winter? I can handle the cold if its sunny but don't like dreary cold days

18:11:39 [danhynes] for you people that moved to nh how did you decide which part, im pretty much interested in keene or manchester or nashua

18:11:45 [RussellK] it rains a lot here

18:11:54 [RussellK] but when it is cold it is sunny

18:12:02 [RussellK] Keene baby

18:12:09 [RussellK] Keene is the place to be

18:12:20 [katdillon] I put all the NH news I can gather here http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/

18:12:21 [svillee] Yes, the coldest days are usually clear weather.

18:12:24 [Randall_W] Seems like everyone wants to go to the northern part of the state, not many people going to the seacoast or other areas

18:12:28 [RussellK] we are doing a UN Flag burning in Keene on Saturday

18:12:38 [Chris] Varrin said he really like Keene

18:12:39 [katdillon] How many porcupines are up there, Steve?

18:12:47 [Randall_W] Sounds like fun =)

18:12:56 [danhynes] what do you like about keene that the others done have. yes i noticed that. ill be in boston though, maybe ill be able to get time to stop by

18:13:04 [RussellK] Varrin and I are determined to make Keene the ultimate Porc destination

18:13:08 [danhynes] anyone here not from keene?

18:13:32 [Chris] Anyone who burns a UN flag is ok in my book. We need to get the UN out of the Us and get the US out of the UN

18:13:59 [Randall_W] We need to get the US out of a lot of places =P

18:14:02 [danhynes] i didnt even know the un did so much until i read that email, i thought the us already hated the un

18:14:05 [RussellK] and we will be openly carrying our sidearms while the UN Flag burns

18:14:06 [katdillon] We're getting some postive reactions from the press about it already

18:14:43 scsmedia enters this room

18:15:18 [RussellK] I know it is hard to decide what part of NH to move to

18:15:28 [RussellK] but you will like any of it

18:15:51 [Chris] The UN has perpetrated the largest scam in the history of the world and the US media hardly covers it (oil for food)

18:15:52 [RussellK] Keene is such a cute little town and not as expensive as I was expecting

18:16:03 [katdillon] Chris, would you like to take up the question you posed on the olist about how to encourage 6000 to recruit?

18:16:10 [Randall_W] Wasn't much of a choice for me, the entire punk scene in NH is centered around Portsmouth, so I figure I can do the most good there

18:16:18 [svillee] At the moment just one other up here, but two more will arrive in a couple of months.

18:16:26 [RussellK] The oil for food is mostly what prompted Dada Orwell to want to burn the flag

18:16:29 [katdillon] and just think, that is our tax money going into Kofi's hands

18:16:45 [RussellK] oh I am sure you will like Portsmouth

18:16:49 [katdillon] Great, steve...it's so much more fun with company

18:17:04 [RussellK] Keene really has a college town feel downtown. It is fun

18:17:05 [Randall_W] I hope so =)

18:17:11 [Chris] No joke and they are using some of the money to kill American troops

18:17:16 [danhynes] are you actually in keene or a suberb. i read somewhere keene is liberal but the suberbs are conserv

18:17:19 [Randall_W] I know the cost of living is bad compared to other areas, but it should be worth it

18:17:34 [katdillon] in keene

18:17:42 [RussellK] Keene isn't big enough to have suburbs

18:17:51 [RussellK] it is only 30000

18:18:09 [katdillon] Chris, that's horrible

18:18:10 [RussellK] That would be true of Manchester

18:18:24 [RussellK] places like Nashua are all suburb

18:18:27 [scsmedia] in NH /Maine, that is vconsidered the big city

18:18:29 [Chris] Someone said some FSPer have moved to Berlin. What is that town like and what do they do for a living up there?

18:18:31 [danhynes] that sounds kinda big to me, i guess i grew up in a town with 30k

18:18:39 [katdillon] you could consider winchester and such places suburbs...kinda

18:19:10 [Randall_W] that's small to me, I'm from a town of 275k, no matter where I go in NH is gonna feel small =P

18:19:23 [svillee] The main employer in Berlin is a paper mill.

18:19:39 [katdillon] I just came from Dallas with more people than all of NH

18:19:50 [katdillon] love it here

18:19:55 [RussellK] The real fun when you get here is hanging out with other Porcupines for me

18:20:04 [svillee] The main attraction of Berlin is that houses are very cheap.

18:20:22 [RussellK] I almost joined svillee in Berlin

18:20:28 [Chris] Are they igloos?

18:20:34 [RussellK] but fell in love with a girl in Keene

18:20:35 [katdillon] But once in a while, we have to encourage Russell to come down outta the trees

18:21:42 [danhynes] whats RLC stand for

18:21:50 [katdillon] We're also starting a school in Keene, teaching constitution and such...for homeschoolers and adults at first

18:22:32 [RussellK] Republican Liberty Caucus

18:22:35 [Chris] For you NHites. How have you found the people of NH to be say politically, socially. Are they friendly or cold? Give me a real in depth feeling of what folks are really like in NH

18:22:42 [katdillon] Republican Liberty Caucus...Ron Paul Republicans

18:23:01 [danhynes] thanks, i dont know much about them, i will look into that

18:23:08 [RussellK] friendly like small town folks around here

18:23:22 [katdillon] people are real friendly. politically everything is incredible accessible

18:23:24 nbrnxtdr enters this room

18:23:31 [RussellK] I was thinking they would be 'flinty' but they are nice

18:23:43 [RussellK] very political all over the place

18:23:51 [danhynes] does anyone know if any fsp people hold any sort of office / town council or anything

18:23:56 [RussellK] lots of political bumper stickers

18:24:12 [RussellK] in keene a mix of liberals and gun nuts

18:24:13 [katdillon] When I was moving in, the little old lady next door offered to help me move stuff!

18:24:30 [katdillon] We have a couple members who are state reps

18:24:36 [Chris] That is cool!

18:24:50 [RussellK] but none of the new people have gotten into office yet

18:24:55 [katdillon] they were NH residents before the move

18:24:59 [RussellK] just previous NHites

18:24:59 [Chris] Thats cool also

18:25:14 [katdillon] No. Dawn Lincoln was asked to run for school board in Winchester

18:25:25 [katdillon] Hasn't really been enough time yet for most offices

18:25:30 [RussellK] Karl Beisel is running for the house next time in Manchester

18:26:02 [katdillon] seemed like Cal Pratt was thinking about running for something

18:26:18 [RussellK] Free Staters have been a real encouragement to office holders that believe in liberty

18:26:41 [katdillon] Yes, they've been very appreciative of our help

18:26:54 [RussellK] We have met quite a few decent polititians(oxymoron?) here

18:27:04 [Chris] I was hoping Evan Nappen would check in tonight as he is a monster in getting things done.

18:27:40 pstudier enters this room

18:27:44 [katdillon] He seems real busy. We had a great chat with him last week though

18:27:48 [RussellK] The polititians in the state house are not like polititians I have met before

18:28:12 [RussellK] they only make $100 and have no staff or campaign workers

18:28:12 [katdillon] BTW, hello to those who just came in. Feel free to jump right in.

18:28:29 [katdillon] so they can really use volunteer staff

18:28:37 [RussellK] they are like retired guys that want to keep taxes low

18:28:40 [Chris] They must do it because they believe in it, it can't be for the money.

18:28:59 [RussellK] of coarse there are bad ones too, but we can work against them

18:29:04 [danhynes] i had a debate about the $100 with someone, does such a low pay lead those in it to get kickbacks or such by supporting anything

18:29:04 [Randall_W] On the previously mentioned topic, I've found liberals are a lot easier to recruit than conservatives (yet everyone else seems to think otherwise??)

18:29:12 [RussellK] chris yea

18:29:28 [RussellK] i don't think they get major kickbacks

18:29:32 [RussellK] there are 400 of them

18:29:43 [Randall_W] It seems to me that most liberals don't care about economics much (except the ones that are full out socialists) and are pretty easy to convince on economics

18:29:46 [katdillon] Some of the Democrats I met at the state house and rallies were real nice

18:29:48 [RussellK] in some ways yes Randall

18:30:02 [RussellK] but since I am conservative that is my world

18:30:07 pstudier exits from this room

18:30:12 [Randall_W] most of them are frustrated with the demoncrats, because they aren't really making any social progress worth mentioning

18:30:21 [RussellK] that makes sense

18:30:24 [danhynes] my other idea was that cuz of the low money it wouldnt allow the smartest people to hold office because they would want to work somewhere where they make a lot of money, like attorneys

18:31:00 [katdillon] Keeping attorneys out of office sounds like a good plan

18:31:08 [RussellK] it also keeps out many career polititians

18:31:17 [Randall_W] Definitely a good plan =)

18:31:27 [Chris] Which has to be good

18:31:38 [RussellK] the founding fathers were smart and didn't do it for the kickbacks

18:31:59 [danhynes] i would think so, except i would like to think the best people should be in there for a long time

18:32:29 [Chris] Career politicians for the most part are slime and scum, parasites who don't know how to work

18:32:31 [katdillon] I don't think there are any term limits

18:32:40 [RussellK] If any of you have NH questions, feel free to email anyone in NH that has moved recently like Kat and I we would all love to give out info.

18:32:40 HardyVT enters this room

18:32:46 [danhynes] yeah i just meant they couldnt afford to make a career out of it

18:33:14 [Chris] Probably the $100 is the term limit

18:33:16 [RussellK] lots of the guys seem retired and then do it for quite a while

18:34:48 [RussellK] so does anyone have requiting successes to talk about?

18:35:08 [katdillon] recruiting?

18:35:18 [RussellK] lol

18:35:19 [Chris] It seems that many really good politicians start out real conservative and really watching out for your and my dollar but as they are in there longer and longer something happens to them. (orrin Hatch from Utah)

18:35:29 [katdillon] We do have some re-quitting going on

18:35:53 [RussellK] I grew up in Utah Chris and I never understood orrin hatch

18:36:20 [RussellK] he cannot lose his reelection bid, but he is a sleazy polititian all the way

18:37:01 [RussellK] He should be standing for the people and kicking but in DC because he doesn't have to worry about politics back home

18:37:27 [Chris] Well, there is this Libertarian talk show host in Birmingham who was talking about the FSP for about 20 minutes and we got 3 members in this area signed up around then. Not sure if there is a connection but I plan to be a guest on the show soon

18:37:56 [danhynes] is anyone going to the bill of rights sunday in billerica

18:38:40 [danhynes] err reading thing

18:38:54 [RussellK] I have too many fun things to do in NH

18:39:06 jsorens enters this room

18:39:11 [RussellK] are you going danh?

18:39:17 [katdillon] Hi Jason

18:39:33 [RussellK] quiet quiet the teacher entered the room

18:39:37 [katdillon] That's great, Chris

18:39:38 [Chris] Hi Jason

18:39:48 [RussellK] Hi prof

18:39:49 [jsorens] hi kat

18:39:55 [jsorens] and everyone else

18:40:00 [danhynes] im not sure yet, i have to convince my fiance to go or let me go

18:40:08 [RussellK] you had a guy talk about the

18:40:18 [RussellK] FSP for 20 minutes?

18:40:51 [jsorens] im sure those signups were related. when radio hosts talk about the fsp, people sign up

18:40:59 [jsorens] boortz has been responsible for dozens of our signups

18:41:26 [Chris] Yes and I didn't hear it, a friend of mine told me about it but we did get 3 new signers right near that time.

18:41:40 [katdillon] boortz has about 150 sign ups

18:41:55 [RussellK] yea some people have issues with boortz, but he is one of our best recruiters

18:42:30 [Randall_W] Well guys and gals, I hate to run, but I have to go back to work and give everyone rides home (I was the only preson with a car and I made them let me leave to be here)

18:42:56 [Randall_W] Seeya guys next time

18:43:08 [RussellK] watch out for ....you know on your way home

18:43:15 [Chris] This guy's name is Richard Dixon, he admires Boortz and I think I will have a good chance to get on hi show. I mean, please this is just Birmingham.

18:43:36 Randall_W exits from this room

18:44:13 [katdillon] Watch for stray moose, Randall

18:44:41 [RussellK] cool Chris Dada Orwell has great success getting on talk radio in NH

18:45:01 [RussellK] he doesn't talk FSP though here

18:45:11 [RussellK] just liberty issues as they come up

18:45:26 [Chris] IRadio shows are powerful, especially those with large listnership. If any of you can get on a show do it. If you don't feel competent to do it, get the FSP speakers group to get someone to attend. They are ready to serve.

18:47:40 [Chris] Jason, what wisdom can you share with the Liaisons tonight?

18:49:14 [katdillon] Apparently the talk show host in Keene is a member of Tim's RLC

18:49:26 [Chris] Russell what do you mean that he doesn't talk FSP though here

18:50:39 [RussellK] well since he is in NH he doesn't need to recruit people for the FSP so he just calls in with a libertarian perspective

18:51:08 [Chris] OK I see what you mean

18:52:09 [RussellK] that is one of the good things about being outside of NH...you can recruit like everyone on this forum

18:52:27 [RussellK] an update on my liaison...

18:53:00 [RussellK] I am the trucking liaison and one of our friends here is a truck driver in MA VT and NH

18:53:33 [RussellK] so I am roping him into helping me reach out to truck drivers, since he knows the rules here for commercial drivers

18:53:35 [Chris] If we could get Hannity or Boortz to give us some time it would be very powerful. Limbaugh has 20 million. He was ranting on the UN oil for food today, he almost sounded like the old Rush when he really was conservative.

18:53:36 [RussellK]

18:54:50 [Chris] Russell, tell us more about the trucking liaison activity, that sounds like it could have really great potential

18:55:20 [RussellK] cool Rush was talking oil for food days before our UN flag burning lol

18:56:08 [RussellK] I have been kindof distracted (newlywed you know) but there is good potential

18:56:14 [Chris] Call him and tell him to come up and hold the flag

18:56:31 [RussellK]

18:56:46 [katdillon]

18:57:31 [RussellK] I thought we were planning of Rush making it Saturday... didn't he RSVP already?

18:57:45 [RussellK] well back to the truckers

18:58:15 [RussellK] they are another group like randalls puck rockers and open source guys

18:58:32 [RussellK] that are predisposed to distrust the government

18:59:01 [RussellK] they love to put anti gov stickers on their trucks

18:59:16 [RussellK] one idea is to come up with a FSP porc magnet

18:59:23 [RussellK] to stick on the truck cabs

18:59:29 PatK enters this room

18:59:49 [RussellK] so you can use it even if you don't own your own truck like "company" drivers

19:00:17 [RussellK] a way for them to tweak the government, just by putting it on their cab

19:00:48 [RussellK] I am researching in what ways NH is a good choice as a 'home' for truck drivers

19:01:14 [Chris] Taxes would be one I suppose

19:01:17 [RussellK] long haul truck drivers "live" in whatever state works best for taxes and regulations already

19:01:24 [RussellK] yea

19:01:46 [RussellK] one good thing for truckers is buying your truck in NH because of no Sales Tax

19:01:54 monroe enters this room

19:02:02 [RussellK] but MT has that too and a couple of others

19:02:23 [RussellK] but a bad things is NH is a little bit of a pain with their DMV

19:02:35 [RussellK] so I have to keep on researching

19:02:46 [RussellK] and eventually get rid of some rules here in NH

19:02:47 [RussellK]

19:02:55 [PatK] how hey you truckers wanna hit a Moose = come to New Hampshire

19:03:01 [RussellK] so that is what we are up to in the truck driver world

19:03:04 [katdillon] Varrin designed a magnetic sign that you could likely get more of

19:03:07 [RussellK]

19:03:19 [katdillon] Randall can give training on that

19:03:21 [RussellK] you missed randall ....he left

10 minutes ago

19:03:45 [RussellK] anyone else have an update?

19:03:51 [Chris] Man, when you figure all of the trucks on the road that equals a lot of signs going up and down the roads.

19:03:56 [PatK] Did he talk about his porc tattoo?

19:04:39 [Chris] Whose porc tatoo?

19:04:40 [katdillon] I doubt Varrin has a tattoo

19:05:01 [PatK] no Randall

19:05:06 [RussellK] that would be cool right? and truck drivers talk too...all the time...word of mouth advertising

19:05:44 monroe exits from this room

19:05:48 [Chris] Would it be possible to advertise the FSP in the trucker magazines?

19:05:50 [PatK] Varrin he he could get a driveway tattoo

19:06:08 [RussellK] yea chris

19:06:13 [katdillon] It would be too wide for his skinny frame

19:06:28 [katdillon] Are there trucker magazines?

19:06:28 [PatK] lol

19:06:30 [Chris] What is a driveway tattoo?

19:06:36 [RussellK] there are certain ones that truckers read from cover to cover in truck stops

19:06:48 [RussellK] lots of trucker magazines

19:06:54 [katdillon] assalt driveway tattoo

19:07:01 [nbrnxtdr] Another trucker (from Maine) looking in with great interest.

19:07:13 [katdillon] maybe that's why we got so many signups from Playboy

19:07:22 [katdillon] Welcome

19:07:30 [PatK] if you stop at a flyijng j or Iron Skillet resturant you see plenty of truckers mags

19:07:35 [RussellK] a trucker from maine?

19:07:52 [RussellK] what did he have to say about the FSP?

19:08:12 [nbrnxtdr] In PA on the way to FL . . Yahoo!

19:08:32 [RussellK] nbrnxtdr are you a truck driver?

19:08:59 [nbrnxtdr] I prefer "professional tourist". .

19:09:08 [RussellK] cool

19:09:10 [katdillon] lol

19:09:12 [PatK]

19:09:17 [RussellK] so how did you hear about us?

19:09:38 [RussellK] who do you drive for or do you own your rig?

19:09:41 [Chris] OK I got it. So you think you are really free driving a rig down the road right? Well think again, DOT regulations and fees and taxes, payroll taxes, excise taxes on your tires and cigars, do you think your kids are being taught to be free in their schools/ Got question contact us for Liberty in

19:09:53 [Chris] your lifetime

19:10:03 [nbrnxtdr] Asmainegoes.com . . a few years ago, when Maine was still a contendor

19:10:07 [RussellK] I leased a truck from CR England for a while

19:10:31 [RussellK] oh cool

19:10:34 [scsmedia] nbrnxtdr: are you taxfoe on AMG

19:11:02 [RussellK] hey chris I think all truck drivers already know they are not free...they fill out forms all the time and deal with scales etc.

19:11:14 [scsmedia] I am Steven S

19:11:19 [nbrnxtdr] One and the same . .

19:11:55 [RussellK] so are you just checking us out?

19:11:59 [Chris] Then they are prime targets for the FSP. You hit a goldmine Russell, now we just need you to complete your honeymoon.

19:12:16 [RussellK] we love visitors...even professional tourists

19:12:22 [katdillon] No way...that's going on for years

19:12:41 [nbrnxtdr] I've known of you for years

19:12:48 [RussellK] I would love to hook up with truckers as they join the FSP ....they can help us recruit

19:13:17 [RussellK] hey nbrnxtdr...would you like to join the FSP and help me recruit?

19:13:32 [nbrnxtdr] Steve . . how about you . . what's your interest here?

19:14:48 [Chris] Hey, folks, our time is one hour officially. You all can stay as long as you want but this dude is checking out. Thanks for all of your input liaisons and I'll be in touch soon. Thanks for coming

19:15:06 [nbrnxtdr] I'll consider it after I've learned more. Presently, i'm looking for a new place to have my mail sent.

19:15:10 [katdillon] Thanks Chris. G'night

19:15:24 [RussellK] see ya...I will stay for a while longer

19:15:25 svillee exits from this room

19:15:44 [scsmedia] just observing. I am very active in republican politics in Maine.

19:16:18 [scsmedia] I would love to replicate your work here. Although we need 50K jsut to move southern Maine

19:16:20 [katdillon] Is the republican liberty caucus active in NH?

19:16:26 [nbrnxtdr] I know. Very active on AMG as well. Good for you.

19:17:09 [katdillon] I mean in Maine

19:17:28 [scsmedia] no

19:17:47 [scsmedia] only recently heard of it

19:20:53 nbrnxtdr exits from this room

19:21:13 [katdillon] Good night all. Thanks for coming!

Volunteer Center

Q & A with Jason

Q & A Chat Workshop with Jason Sorens - 12/21/04

Other chats

Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:

18:01:14 [jsorens] michael - dr matt barney sent me a book recently: 'influence' by cialdini... have you read it?

18:01:41 rothameric enters this room

18:01:51 [HardyVT] What is everyone using for operating systems? Anything other than Windows 98-XP, MacOS 8,9,X, or Linux(x86)?

18:02:07 Aldridge enters this room

18:02:12 [katdillon] Hi scott

18:02:21 [MiclEdlstn] Yes--excellent ideas on how to motivate people to help you achieve your goals.

18:02:26 [rothameric] Hey Kat. How are you?

18:02:42 [katdillon] Really? Sounds like an interesting book

18:02:46 [MiclEdlstn] I continue to make use of his suggestions.

18:02:47 [katdillon] Great

18:03:04 [jsorens] it was a really interesting read. he does a good job of popularizing psychological research.

18:03:24 [katdillon] Would you like to get started?

18:03:30 [jsorens] sure

18:03:41 [MiclEdlstn] Yes. It's the type of book just about everyone would find useful.

18:04:03 [katdillon] Welcome everyone. Thanks for coming. Tonight we have Jason Sorens, Free State Founder here to answer your questions.

18:04:44 [jsorens] there's no set agenda, so feel free to fire away on any topic!

18:05:12 SkippyBob enters this room

18:05:15 [HardyVT] can we get rid of this phpchat/

18:05:16 [MiclEdlstn] Jason, perhaps you can give a "State of the Free State" report.

18:06:18 [jsorens] hardy - i hope so...we're using this now b/c its easy for people, & they dont have to download or install anything

18:07:14 [jsorens] michael - as we're coming to the end of 2004, we're now assessing how far we've come this year, whether we've met our goals, etc.

18:07:35 [jsorens] we set some strategic goals for 2004 at the beginning of the year: some of them we've met, some have changed, others we haven't met

18:07:40 [RussellK] so what was our participant goal for 2004 again?

18:07:56 [jsorens] our goal was 7,000. obviously, we fell short there.

18:08:15 [RussellK]

18:08:21 [jsorens] and that was the most important of our goals - the other goals - raising funds, getting our tax status settled - were just means to ends

18:08:46 [jsorens] so we have to reassess some of our recruitment strategies

18:08:56 [jsorens] here is the picture today as i see it...

18:09:17 [katdillon] Jason, I don't think I've heard you say....what do you think is the best way to increase recruitment?

18:09:24 [jsorens] some of our recruitment techniques seem not to have worked well, while others have paid some dividends, and others we're still waiting on

18:09:42 [katdillon] (Take your time....didn't mean to fire questions so fast)

18:09:45 [MiclEdlstn] Could you enumerate each?

18:09:52 [jsorens] our mailing to massachusetts libertarians hasn't gone out yet, & that may have significant positive results

18:10:20 [jsorens] the latest shadow ad campaign in ct has netted only 1 new signup so far, but did get us some positive nh coverage

18:10:27 [jsorens] the problem is getting coverage outside nh, of course

18:10:40 [jsorens] also, the radio campaign in baltimore has netted only 2 or 3 new signups, i believe

18:11:01 [jsorens] now, there is both good news and bad news about the recruitment rate in 2004

18:11:16 [jsorens] the good news is that the decline in 2004 was apparently not as great as we expected

18:11:33 [jsorens] the bad news is that the reason for this was that the recruitment rate in 2003 was apparently not as good as we thought it was

18:11:43 [jsorens] we ran a few numbers recently to get a handle on this

18:12:17 Rinku enters this room

18:12:19 [jsorens] as we all know, over 2000 people who signed up before august 2003 did not vote in our state vote

18:12:33 [jsorens] of those, several hundred have since indicated that they are still committed to the fsp, but about 1500 have not

18:12:38 [katdillon] We got good sign up numbers from the "This is True" ads

18:13:16 [jsorens] if we assume the worst, that none of these are "real" fsp members, then the signup rate in 2003 was only about 50% better than the signup rate in 2004

18:13:17 fisher enters this room

18:13:49 [jsorens] this means that we're not necessarily doing a lot wrong that we used to be doing right, but it also means that the chances of reaching 20,000 by sept 2006 are low

18:14:15 [jsorens] so we'll have to initiate a discussion about changing a goal that many people see as being core to the fsp (20K signups by 2006)

18:14:50 [jsorens] part of that change may involve encouraging people to move sooner rather than later, or making different categories of signups to allow more flexibility...im sure there are other suggestions.

18:15:10 [RussellK] I personally don't think we need 20K to really change NH for the better

18:15:14 [katdillon] For those who just came, feel free to ask questions.

18:15:17 [rothameric] Nice

18:15:30 [jsorens] i think we'll need to evaluate some of the ongoing campaigns and have a discussion among the leadership before starting the wider conversation among fsp members about what to do if 2006 comes and we're still at around 7-10K

18:15:53 [HardyVT] I always said I only need 500 activist in Vermont to change our state. NH you'd need a lot more, but you don't need 20k.

18:16:07 [jsorens] but i expect we'll be tossing ideas around publicly by this time next month, to get a feel for what people think would work best

18:16:33 [jsorens] i agree that we probably need only 10K moderately active people to have a big effect in nh, and just a few hundred extremely talented individuals to have that effect

18:16:40 [jsorens] quality matters as much or more than quantity

18:17:15 [jsorens] to echo something kat wrote above, i do think internet methods of recruitment are still working best. 'this is true' was a big boon; we'll have to do more of that kind of thing.

18:17:28 bannock enters this room

18:17:47 [RussellK] I could see that combo .... many activists along with many more people that move for NH quality of life movers

18:17:52 [jsorens] (advocates for self-govt sends out a big newsletter, for example)

18:18:13 [jsorens] right. also, the website is being redesigned to emphasize those quality of life issues

18:18:17 [Aldridge] How effective was our presence at the LP convention in terms of recruitment?

18:19:03 [jsorens] aldridge - we only got about 5 signups at the convention, but we answered a lot of practical questions about nh for people whod already signed up or were thinking about it

18:19:12 [jsorens] about 40 people came to a breakout session we held

18:19:28 [jsorens] and the questions were very practical, indicating that people were taking seriously the idea of moving

18:19:33 Friday enters this room

18:19:50 [katdillon] http://www.margomaps.com/fsp/recruitment/ This isn't completely up to date, but very helpful

18:19:57 [Rinku] HardyVT> could you repeat the ip address?

18:20:22 [jsorens] yes - kat is now posting weekly numbers on where new signups heard from us

18:20:28 [MiclEdlstn] How effective was our recruitment at FreedomFest?

18:20:30 [bannock] HardyVT> HardyVT Thanks

18:20:31 [Aldridge] Do you think that setbacks like this could lead to morale problems and further setbacks?

18:20:36 [HardyVT] 69.160.178.198

18:20:46 [Rinku] thanks

18:21:17 [katdillon] sign up stats are posted weekly on this thread http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=8333

18:21:39 [jsorens] well, i dont think we've really seen a significant setback in recruiting. we did have a setback last december through february, when numbers were quite low, but now recruitment rates are only 50% below those for 2003 as a whole

18:22:06 [jsorens] considering that 2004 was a major election year, we were shoved out of the headlines. so i think we'll make up most of that 50% next year.

18:22:06 [rothameric] Maybe FSP needs to get out more info to other groups, like the Constitution Party.

18:22:22 [jsorens] however, people will worry that we probably won't reach the 20K/2006 goal

18:23:44 [jsorens] i do think we should continue to make connections with other groups, including the constitution party. chris harrison heads up our efforts here (community liaisons). some of our liaisons are more active than others. this is a good area to get involved in if youd like to help. its pretty simple.

18:24:00 [jsorens] mostly answering emails and sending out occasional targeted campaigns

18:24:20 [rothameric] Works for me!

18:25:36 [jsorens] we're still trying to crack the cato nut. the cato institute is sympathetic but hasn't covered us at all. even the american enterprise institute has held a conference on the fsp, so its puzzling that cato hasnt gotten more involved.

18:26:18 [RussellK] I am really surprised at how all of these think tank type groups don't want to actually 'do' anything

18:26:26 [jsorens] katdillon> got it

18:26:30 [jsorens] oops

18:26:32 [svillee] It's encouraging that in the "when will you move" poll, about 50% said they would move regardless of whether we reached 20K

18:26:36 [rothameric] Remember, the Cato Institute is a "Think Tank". Takes time, ya know...

18:26:49 [RussellK] We don't want to just chronicle the slide into tyranny

18:27:08 [rothameric] Amen to that!

18:27:13 [svillee] Of course, that poll was skewed toward those who are active on the forum.

18:27:14 FTL_Ian enters this room

18:27:23 [jsorens] svillee - thats true. and after we reach, say, 500 or 1000 people in state, i think even the other 50% will feel comfortable about moving

18:28:02 [jsorens] if we decide to start encouraging early movers, we'll need to really work on distributing practical info to all our members: job market sites, data, etc

18:28:22 [RussellK] I wonder how many people are not waiting for the 20K but just a job or house sale etc.

18:28:29 [Rinku] HardyVT> yes

18:28:37 [katdillon] Man, that's going to be a blast, having all those people here! It's great now...ooops, I mean we'll get so much more accomplished.

18:29:00 [jsorens] many, i think. i know ive been applying for jobs in nh already. from my perspective, theres no reason not to start hunting now

18:29:05 [FTL_Ian] hello all

18:29:08 [Aldridge] Why was the number 20K chosen? Is it arbitrary, or is there some reason for it?

18:29:33 [RussellK] I wonder if someone here could answer that

18:29:41 [Rinku] I think jsorens wrote a paper on how 20k was selected

18:29:58 [Rinku] I forget the details though

18:29:59 [jsorens] aldridge - its somewhat arbitrary. it was initially chosen b/c it seemed like the highest plausible number we could reach. later research i did showed that 20K could have a significant effect in states under about 1.2 million population, which is what nh is

18:30:09 [svillee] estimate of how many activists would be needed to make a difference in a state with a population about 1 million

18:30:31 [jsorens] the revised edition of that research is here:

18:30:32 [jsorens] http://freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/20000nh.php

18:30:39 [katdillon] I think this is it: http://freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/strategies.php

18:30:41 [Aldridge] I see. You'll have to forgive me if I ask questions everyone else knows. I'm a bit new to the FSP.

18:30:46 [svillee] I'm curious about Hardy's comment that 500 would be enough in VT

18:31:03 [RussellK] that is what chats are for

18:31:06 [jsorens] thats perfectly fine. btw, you can also access the original essay here: http://freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/strategies.php

18:32:15 [RussellK] the 20K still makes sense ...they just don't all have to be rabid activists

18:32:27 [katdillon] What direction do you think we should go with our recruitment strategies?

18:32:41 [jsorens] 20k works if most of them do little more than pay annual dues to an activist organization

18:32:45 [Rinku] how many did it take to start the american revolution?

18:32:53 [jsorens] 10k works if people are generally more active

18:33:01 [Rinku] activists, i mean

18:33:24 [jsorens] they say the american revolution was actively supported by just 10% of the population... im just going on hearsay there, however.

18:33:26 [HardyVT] VT's a much smaller state. 500 would have to be dedicated activist - not arm chair viewers. 500 * $50/month is enough to wage large campaigns in VT.

18:33:36 [Rinku] probably that'd be too difficult to estimate since records aren't that good.

18:33:57 [Rinku] hm

18:34:04 [jsorens] kat - i think recruitment strategies should focus on quality of living & the advantages of nh

18:34:16 [Aldridge] Early movers seems like a good idea. If early movers make some sort of pro-liberty achievement, it could gin up publicity and enthusiasm.

18:34:21 [jsorens] if we drop the 20K goal eventually, then the message can be even more flexible

18:34:30 [HardyVT] 10% would be about right. 1/3 for revolution, 1/3 against, 1/3 in the middle. Then 1/3 of the third for it were activists.

18:35:02 [svillee] VT population is about 600K, roughly half that of NH

18:35:05 [jsorens] we can truly cast ourselves as a 'political chamber of commerce,' recruiting on a permanent basis business owners, political and academic leaders, and general liberty lovers who would like to move to nh

18:35:24 [MiclEdlstn] Jason, I'm not clear why a think tank like Cato would officially support activism (FSP or others). Don't think tanks focus on policy recommendations and scholarship?

18:35:24 JonM enters this room

18:35:44 [jsorens] i think the meme of 'nh is a good place for libertarians' has already gotten out around the country. i hear back about the fsp in the strangest places

18:36:17 [Aldridge] Most of the people I've spoken with have been primarily concerned with practical matters like employment and quality of living. That is an important aspect to focus on while recruiting.

18:36:18 [jsorens] one professor at the university of minnesota told me that her brother was a libertarian & always talked about moving to nh. she asked me whether that had anything to do with the fsp

18:36:35 [katdillon] How about efforts to improve liberty in NH?

18:36:38 [Rinku] hehe

18:36:40 [svillee] They could view moving to NH as a 'policy recommendation'

18:36:49 [katdillon] cool

18:36:56 [jsorens] cato could still hold a conference on the idea. aei did that as part of their competitive federalism project, inviting both supporters & critics of the idea, including alan bock, michael barone, richard vedder, etc

18:37:26 [jsorens] we should heavily advertise efforts to improve liberty in nh as evidence that the fsp is working

18:37:44 [jsorens] but not just efforts to improve liberty, but the social aspects as well!

18:38:00 [rothameric] How about starting with our new governor?

18:38:04 [MiclEdlstn] Yes, that would fit under their purview.

18:38:05 [jsorens] people need to know that when they move, theyll have an immediate circle of support, friendship, etc. that matters, believe it or not.

18:38:48 [rothameric] FSP Welcome Wagon?

18:38:54 [katdillon] You know what it was like at porcfest, being surrounded by people who think like you? Living in NH is become like that quickly. It's empowering. It feels like we can really make a change

18:39:36 [RussellK] When you move to NH you can count on endless parties with fellow porcupines

18:40:01 [jsorens] yes, the fsp welcome wagon will really be the only part of the fsp organization per se that is active in nh. itll be there to welcome prospectives & participants, show them around, give them info, etc

18:40:43 [rothameric] That might be a great place to start,,,

18:41:12 [jsorens] otherwise, the fsp doesnt guide political or social activism in nh. since the fsp is in essence an organization of 'outsiders' who have not moved to nh yet, its not our place to influence nh politics. thats for the people whove already moved there.

18:41:41 [rothameric] Or for those who have already lived here.

18:41:46 [jsorens] right!

18:42:37 [HardyVT] there lots of groups that are outsiders that try to influence state's politics.

18:42:57 [katdillon] Mass. democrats?

18:43:21 [rothameric] Ooooohhh, what YOU said!

18:43:43 [RussellK] The FSP has plenty to do helping attract people to NH and help them get there

18:43:43 [HardyVT] Thinking, the Conservation Law Foundation and Anti-SMoking league (when it comes to Vermont)

18:44:00 [jsorens] i know. but in my view thats not generally appropriate. i think local people should be allowed to have the primary say over how they organize their own communities.

18:44:20 [rothameric] Otherwise, it's truly not free.

18:44:35 George enters this room

18:44:35 [svillee] For what it's worth, I think when the FSP says they don't try to guide NH politics, people don't believe it, and making the claim may do more harm than good.

18:44:53 [HardyVT] That's not how life it. Nike influences people, walmart, IBM,...

18:44:56 [rothameric] Good point.

18:44:57 [katdillon] I think so too, Steve

18:45:06 [Aldridge] What should local groups and individuals be doing in order to drive recruitment?

18:45:38 [katdillon] What part of the country are you in, Aldridge?

18:45:42 [svillee] For example, if the FSP points to a particular bill that was passed as "evidence the FSP is working", it's implicit that the FSP approves of that bill, and wants to guide NH politics further in that direction.

18:46:06 [Aldridge] Huntsville Alabama

18:46:45 [jsorens] oh, we definitely, as individuals, have likes and dislikes in nh politics. but we're not trying to elect or defeat particular candidates, or pass particular legislation. we don't lobby.

18:46:45 [RussellK] I think actually having active local groups around the country helps recruitment

18:47:19 [jsorens] local groups are potentially important. wherever theyve grown, they've really helped recruitment. the biggest hurdle is getting one started where one doesnt exist.

18:47:22 [FTL_Ian] The FSP should report on what FSP members are doing, but make the point that not all FSP members support the stated activism

18:48:02 [rothameric] How are FSP groups formed? By county? By town?

18:48:18 [katdillon] There are a lot of ideas on recruiting here: http://freestateproject.org/training/

18:48:21 [jsorens] at one time, there was a very large local group in northern ga/al/western sc/western nc, but since i moved from asheville, and doug hillman (from al) has been less involved, that group seems to have declined. it could easily be resuscitated however.

18:48:44 [katdillon] local groups are usually by state

18:48:53 [jsorens] heres the way local groups are currently organized

18:48:54 [jsorens] http://freestateproject.org/community/localgroups/

18:49:24 [jsorens] i should note that that large group, the 'kudzu porcupines,' has now been broken up into the diff states

18:51:33 [rothameric] I know with the NH Constitution Party, we're breaking it up into counties. That way, we can get an idea of what area is stronger, weaker, etc.

18:51:58 [rothameric] And can coordinate info faster, to apply to whatever situations we may be dealing with.

18:52:54 [katdillon] Roth, do you have problems with not enough member density in each county?

18:53:03 [FTL_Ian] roth= CP member?

18:53:20 [rothameric] Yep.

18:53:23 vtr enters this room

18:53:34 [MiclEdlstn] I have an appt. shortly. Thanks for the Chat, Jason. Bye, everyone.

18:53:43 [RussellK] bye

18:53:49 [katdillon] Night Michael!

18:53:50 MiclEdlstn exits from this room

18:54:17 [FTL_Ian] What brings you here tonight, roth? It appears you are in NH?

18:54:21 [rothameric] As with any new organization, one has to slowly build wherever the people pop up from.

18:54:22 [FTL_Ian] Just curious

18:55:09 [rothameric] I like what I hear from the FSP, and as a NH resident already, I am curious as to how the FSP is going to work here.

18:55:39 [rothameric] I'm not Libertarian, but I don't think that really matters.

18:55:47 [Aldridge] Mr. Sorens, is there anything you'd like to change about the FSP? Any disappointments or reservations?

18:56:19 [jsorens] you may wish to get involved in the nhla, which is a nonpartisan action group of general interest - there are already libertarians and republicans, but i dont believe they have any constitutionists yet

18:56:47 [rothameric] Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

18:57:12 [jsorens] i definitely am disappointed that recruitment hasnt done better, but i do feel that we've done just about everything we could. another disappointment is that some very talented individuals have burned out in leadership and had to quit their positions. we have high leadership turnover.

18:57:28 [jsorens] being an all-volunteer organization places a lot of stress on the most active volunteers.

18:57:43 [jsorens] http://www.nhliberty.org

18:58:02 [RussellK] yea Jason...what things have surprised you along the way in the FSP?

18:58:11 [FTL_Ian] kat- that's great!

18:58:13 [jsorens] but you may want to email specific people, b/c the website doesnt seem to be updated frequently - i think kat and russell know more about the nhla

18:58:20 [rothameric] Thanks, Jason.

18:58:44 [FTL_Ian] It seems an "extreme" event has brought out at least one activist. Congrats.

18:59:13 [jsorens] im certainly surprised that the fsp has done so well. from a small, idealistic vision to thousands of people signing on, and dozens, perhaps almost a hundred now, actually picking up stakes and moving...its very humbling

18:59:34 [jsorens] im surprised that the fsp became, for a time, a political football in nh, part of the democratic-republican partisan wrangling...

18:59:36 [katdillon] What's going on with NHLA: http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=New+Hampshire+Liberty+Alliance

18:59:58 [rothameric] Thanks, Kat!

18:59:59 [RussellK] I am always taken with people's stories about their move to NH

19:00:05 [katdillon] my pleasure

19:00:15 [jsorens] ive also been surprised that the media coverage has overall been so positive!

19:00:23 [rothameric] Really like that "Underground".

19:00:25 [FTL_Ian] Russell: agreed.. they are fascinating.

19:00:49 [katdillon] Thanks

19:01:41 [JonM] Amanda seemed a bit frazzled on Sunday

19:02:00 [jsorens] well, mary is trying to get me offline, so i'd better go, unless there remain some urgent questions

19:02:04 [katdillon] Yeah, what was up with Amanda?

19:02:19 [katdillon] Thanks so much, Jason. Have a good night!

19:02:24 [RussellK] good to hear from you Jason

19:02:27 [rothameric] Thanks for your time, Jason. It was great to hear from you.

19:02:29 [JonM] her company bought another company, she's in charge of accounting

19:02:30 [Rinku] jsorens, out of curiousity, has anyone discovered the FSP through your Civilization 2 scenarios?

19:02:39 [Rinku] (i like them)

19:02:46 [Aldridge] Thank you Mr. Sorens. Good Evening.

19:02:47 [JonM] she's flat out working on that and year end financials

19:03:06 [Rinku] (not an urgent question, sorry)

19:03:16 [jsorens] rinku - not that i know of! i stopped making those years ago, before the fsp even began... but its always possible. my personal website used to link to the fsp. (doesnt now, b/c im applying for jobs in left-wing academia)

19:03:35 [FTL_Ian] I have one

19:03:51 [jsorens] youre too kind rinku. there are many better scenarios out there than my dabblings.

19:03:51 [FTL_Ian] You made reference to doing almost everything for recruiting

19:04:03 [Rinku] alright, thanks. my respect for you improved even more after i played those.

19:04:05 [svillee] I hope that means Amanda will be less frazzled in January

19:04:08 [RussellK] I didn't even know about that game

19:04:18 [FTL_Ian] Why has the FSP not partnered with Free Talk Live yet. Has there ever been a better offer on your table?

19:04:41 [FTL_Ian] I have had a few inquiries from the board, then silence

19:04:49 [FTL_Ian] Not even an objection

19:05:13 [JonM] I kinda have to side with Ian on that, if he's managed two stations so far, that's a lot better than established radio hosts have done trying to syndicate

19:05:14 [Rinku] maybe i could mke a civ 2 FSP scenario...

19:05:18 [jsorens] well, this is pretty much up to bob hull, the advertising director. my guess is that its just a matter of assessing the effectiveness of radio, the money in the budget, & so forth. but you definitely want to talk to bob for updates.

19:05:26 [Rinku] would be interesting to attempt

19:05:39 [katdillon] We do keep having sign ups from FTL

19:05:48 [FTL_Ian] I was under the delusion that the board made these decisions together.

19:05:49 [RussellK] cool rinku

19:05:53 [katdillon] Cool, Rinu!

19:06:13 [FTL_Ian] BobH is an exclusive decision maker when it comes to advertising?

19:06:24 [jsorens] nope! the circle tries not interfere in those decisions at all. the circle (or board) is strictly limited to general policy decisions.

19:06:34 [JonM] the leadership polyhedron!

19:06:39 [FTL_Ian] 4 stations

19:07:13 [jsorens] theoretically, the whole circle/board could overrule a director, but thats generally not good policy. if a director isnt doing a good job, that director needs to be replaced. better than micromanaging by committee

19:07:26 [JonM] terrestrial?

19:07:29 [FTL_Ian] Jason, can you email me his phone number to ian@freetalklive.com?

19:07:46 [jsorens] will do

19:07:46 [FTL_Ian] Jon, yep

19:07:59 [FTL_Ian] plus 3 known FM micros, one running at least 700 watts.

19:08:10 [FTL_Ian] katdillon> *shrug*

19:08:12 [JonM] what are the two new ones?

19:08:28 [JonM] I really think AM680 in boston could stand to lose Michael Savage

19:08:31 [FTL_Ian] I despise this chat... looking forward to testing the new FSP chat software.

19:08:36 [JonM] that guy grates on me

19:08:43 [FTL_Ian] http://freetalklive.com/affiliates.php

19:08:58 [jsorens] well, gotta run now... good night, all!

19:09:06 [FTL_Ian] Jason: thanks!

19:09:14 [RussellK] bye

19:09:17 [Rinku] good night.

19:09:18 [Friday] thank you, Jason

19:09:21 [jsorens] yw!

19:09:25 jsorens exits from this room

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