Communication Strategies For Building Consensus
chat workshop with Dr. Michael Edelstein 10/20/04
Assume responsibility for your role in a dialogue. Do what you
can to improve the process. (As good as it may feel for the moment, resentfully
criticizing others for communication breakdowns doesn't help and often
accelerates a downward spiral.)
Bring up and then address one issue at a time.
Remain positive and give the other person the benefit of the doubt.
For example, if you suspect they may be using a sarcastic tone, assume the
Respond only to the constructive content of a message. Ignore, when
possible, sarcasm, innuendo, name-calling, etc. (It's usually possible). This
helps avoid escalation.
Avoid accusations, especially overgeneralized ones, such as: "You
never...", You always...", "Why can't you...?", "I can't believe you said
Say "Please," "Thank you," "I apologize," "Great idea!," etc.,
generously. These words are the lubricants of communication especially "I
Before criticizing a position, consider feeding it back to the person
advancing it, to confirm you've understood it.
Do not label the individual you're speaking with, e.g., "You're a
troll," "You're intolerant," "...disrespectful," "...oblivious,"
"...obnoxious," etc. This rarely helps and often makes matters worse.
Similarly, calling their arguments stupid, destructive, "I can't believe you
said that," etc. is poor technique.
Keep in mind that "agreeing to disagree" is usually a fine option when
stuck in a communication rut. There's often no right or wrong in our
disagreements. Differing opinions may rest on different styles, proclivities,
or comfort levels.
If you wish someone to communicate more constructively, offer a
specific suggestion and begin it with "I prefer..." For example, "I prefer you
not call me intolerant. Rather, please cite specifically what I said that you
If you feel the process is breaking down, discuss this with the other
person. Collaboratively work to improve it by focusing on future behavioral
change, rather than by assigning blame for past communication difficulties.
State negative feelings in a positive way by stating the other's best
self, e.g., "I know you're a tolerant person," or "You often have excellent
ideas." Then let them know you feel they're not living up to their usual high
If you're communicating by computer, consider moving to the telephone
should communication get stalled.
Give positive feedback, praise, appreciation, "atta boys" wherever
Preface constructive criticism with positive feedback.
If disengaging is a viable option with someone who seems generally
angry and negativistic, politely end the dialogue. Alternatively, consider
suggesting ending it for continuation at a future date, when one (or both of
you) will have had a chance to collect your thoughts and calm down.
Keep in mind that everyone is a free agent with free will,
consequently you can't force anyone to understand or agree with you, no matter
how self-evident your view seems to you.
Remind othersand yourselfof our common goal: to build a
free society. Consequently, collaboration, rather than one-upmanship, is
Back to Training
Free State Project Talking Points
by Amanda Phillips 6/7/04
I thought that some of you might find this helpful... these are the talking
points that I give to media folks before we do an interview. Most interviews
don't cover everything, but this helps give the host some ideas on what they
might be most interested in talking about. (I'm constantly updating &
revising these, so make sure you do the same if you rip these off & use
them for yourself). Also, feel free to e-mail me any time if you'd like the
latest version of the talking points.
- Overview of the FSP
- Plan to move 20,000 freedom activists to a small state where we can make a
- when we reach 20,000 committed participants, then we start to move
- demographics (mostly young, upwardly mobile, professional, educated)
- are we associated with any political parties?
- are we moving to specific areas within NH?
- why the porcupine as the mascot?
- (small-l) libertarianism
- believe in personal & economic freedom
- what kinds of personal freedoms? Why?
- what kinds of economic freedoms? Why?
- what would an ideal libertarian society look like?
- won't there be chaos?
- History of the FSP
- how did it get started?
- Jason's idea as a Yale grad student
- the research -- other migratory movements
- we created the Statement of Intent & the Participation Guidelines...
only after we reach 20,000 commitments do we start to move
- we researched 10 small population states and decided on NH as the best choice
- high profile friends & endorsements (Governor Benson, Walter Williams,
LP presidential candidates)
- Why NH?
- extensive research on the states, membership voted on NH
- NH has many political, cultural, economic advantages
- small population + 400-seat legislature
- a libertarian culture ("Live Free or Die")
- near a major economic center
- strong projected job growth
- Governor signed on as a Friend
- legislators make $100/year
- constitution is only one in the world that protects the citizens' right to
- Status of the FSP today
- 5,800 participants
- about 300 in NH today
- expect many more to move this summer
- Randall Wolfe's Walk to NH
- Free Staters appointed to Governor's Task Force for Government Efficiency
- 2 Free Staters in the NH State House
- HOW TO JOIN!
At this phase in our plan the Free State Project needs, above all else, more participants!
The January 2006 Free State Project Recruitment Challenge
Results are in!
The official January signup count is in and we welcomed 60 new
Participants! This result is well above our usual January doldrums. The
January Recruitment Challenge was generously sponsored by the Tennessee
Local Group and then matched by Vince Silvia and John P.
Cunningham of Massachusetts. All three are donating $10 for each new
January signup (Vince up to $500), so with 60 new Participants, the total
donated comes to $1,700.
Thank you to our kind sponsors, and a special thanks to each and every one
of the 60 new people who joined the FSP in January!
The members of the Tennessee FSP local group are committed to the future
success of the FSP. We have worked hard in 2005 to recruit new members to the
FSP. Participants and Friends of the FSP posted recruitment flyers on college
campuses from Chattanooga to Memphis. We appeared on two talk radio shows and
set-up a table at the 2005 Gandhian Conference on Nonviolence. We also gave
speeches at a couple Libertarian Party county meetings and set up a table at
the state Libertarian Party convention.
However, we could have done much more, and much more is exactly what we
plan to do in 2006. The TN FSP will start off the year with a recruitment
challenge for our comrades:
For every member that joins the FSP in
January 2006, the TN FSP will donate ten dollars to the FSP.
This is the perfect opportunity for fence sitters to hop off the fence and
into the Free State. Need an excuse to have a local group meeting? Use this
drive as the excuse. Need that extra incentive to post recruitment flyers
around your town? Use this drive as the excuse. Over the last few months, the
FSP has gained around fifty new members per month. Fifty times ten dollars is
five hundred dollars. We're prepared to contribute that and moremake us
give more! More money for the FSP means more money for recruitment. More money
spent on recruitment means even more new participants.
01/15/06 Update: John P. Cunningham (of Massachusetts) has also
matched the pledge. He will donate $10 to the FSP for each new membership in
the month of January 2006 - up to $10,000!
12/18/05 Update: Vince Silvia (of Massachusetts) has pledged to
match the TN FSP with an additional $10 for each new membership in the month of
January 2006 up to $500. And he challenges any other FSPer to match
Excited about recruiting new members in January 2006? Excellent. For useful
resources, see the following parts of the FSP website:
Join the FSP
Letters to the Editor
First, some general tips:
It is always best to contact the paper you are interested in submitting a
letter to and ask to speak to the department dealing with letters to the
editor. You should then find out what the length of the letter should be,
and where it should be sent to. If you send a letter that is too long,
they may simply not publish it.
Always include your full name, address, phone number and e-mail address
with your letter. Your article will most likely not be published without
providing this basic information.
Mention the freestateproject.org website as a resource for more
Please mail or e-mail a copy of your letter to
email@example.com and indicate whether we can publish it on our
website. Note that if you succeed in publishing three LTEs in one year, you
will qualify for The Advocates'
Lights of Liberty
Keeping your letter brief will help assure that your important points are
not cut out by the newspaper.
Send letters to weekly community newspapers too. The smaller the
newspaper's circulation, the easier it is to get your letter printed.
Make references to the newspaper. While some papers print general
commentary, many will only print letters that refer to a specific article.
Some sample letters for you to use or customize:
I love Massachusetts, but I can't stand this kind of persecution. The
government has gone too far this time! [Here follows a description of this
week's persecution and why it is harmful.]
I'm leaving for New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project
(www.freestateproject.org) because I want to be free! I've finally found a
group of people who share my passion for freedom and are willing to do
something to achieve it. I want liberty in my lifetime, so I'm joining the Free
State Project and moving to New Hampshire.
(Contributed by A. Phillips)
I am writing to address the [incident, event, article, other letter] of [date],
in which [brief summary].
The critical issue is ___. The Free State Projectoffers a[nother]
[solution, answer, viewpoint, perspective]; that is: ____.
[Brief description of the FSP]. The folks at the FSP have for several
years [list relevant goals, achievements relating to the subject of the
letter]. I think this may be the answer in this case. Applying the
stated goals of the organization [explain application].
Conclusion. (FSP Rules, of course! - ;)
(Letter by Ernie De Bella published in the Everett, WA Herald on
Boy was I surprised to see the article on the Free State Project
(Libertarians look for a state to call their own 2/23) in my local paper. It
was a pleasant surprise actually.
I subscribe to the Herald specifically because of the focus on local issues
which this paper does a fantastic job of doing. But when you select interesting
articles like the one about the Free State Project (FSP) it really helps round
out the paper.
I'm not a Libertarian but I do have a strong libertarian (notice the
difference in spelling) streak running through me and have signed up for the
FSP in hopes that the movement can be successful in promoting freedom in our
I haven't been disappointed in the project so far even though it's
still in it's infancy. What makes FSP all the more impressive is they
haven't sold my name to any outside agency so I don't get a bunch of
extra junk mail.
How refreshingly different from every other organization and business
I've given my name to and how nice to read about it in my local paper.
Ernie De Bella
(Contributed by B. Nelson)
I am writing to inform your readers of a group in which some, at least, might
be interested: The Free State Project (FSP). This group is a direct
result of the frustration many of us feel at the over-reaching power of
Government that has slowly and surely insinuated itself into our everyday
lives, sometimes in direct opposition to the mandates of our Constitution.
We have come to the realization that perhaps the only hope we have of truly
availing ourselves to the life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness promised
in our Constitution is to join with other like-minded individuals and
peacefully settle in an agreed-upon state. Once there, we will begin a
lawful process of decreasing the state's intrusion into its citizens'
lives--includingsuch taxes and fees as we are
able.Ourgoal is 20,000 members, and our numbers are steadily
I understand that this forum is has space-limitations. I therefore invite
anyone interested to visit the FSP website:
http://www.freestateproject.org or write to the FSP at:
(Contributed by J. Eiland)
Do You Want Liberty In Your Lifetime?
If you're like many Americans today, you're probably thoroughly
disenchanted, even disgusted, with the current political climate in our
country. Politicians on both sides of the aisle compete with one another
to come up with bigger and better schemes for taxing you and spending your
heard-earned money in order to please their special-interest supporters and
party bosses. You may even be looking around and seeing your own
neighbors wanting the government to take care of them, and wanting YOU to fit
Do you look forward to a time when government might once again protect you
from those who want to pick your pocket instead of actively aiding and abetting
them? Would you rather be free to live your own life without worrying
about what special interest group is trying to force you to conform to their
Chances are, you may be looking around and thinking that change is not
possible, that the heritage of freedom that we as Americans hold so dear may be
fast slipping through our fingers, that your children may grow up in an America
where "liberty" is increasingly a foreign word, and state control of
the smallest details of our lives is increasingly a reality.
If you've ever had any similar thoughts to the ones described here, then
you should know that you are not alone. There are others like you, who long for
a return to liberty and the rule of law in its proper place: protecting,
not exploiting, the citizen.
The Free State Project (FSP)is an effort by liberty-minded people like you
who have just such a vision in mind:a return to freedom, individual
responsibility, and liberty in our lifetime. How is this possible?
The plan is simple: Five thousand freedom-minded persons will gather
together in order to choose one state in the Union that is ideal for
reasserting our traditional American ideals of individual liberty and
responsibility. Once the state is chosen, the original 5000 hope to draw
15,000 or more like-minded persons who will join them in moving to this state
and using their combined resources and influence to put government back in its
place and protect individual liberty.
The FSP is currently one year old and has already signed up 1228 members,
thus it is already well on its way to the first milestone of 5000 members, and
ever closer to its ultimate goal of working for a truly free state in our great
American Union. If you haven't heard of the FSP yet, you will
Does a free state sound like something worth working for? Does the
idea that you could be truly free in your own lifetime, and have a chance to
pass on a truly great American legacy for your children as well, touch on some
hidden hopes that you still have that change can really come? If so, or
if you just have questions and want to know more, I encourage you to stop by
the FSP's website (http://www.freestateproject.org), and take a look at
their material. There you'll find state data tables, an informative
list of frequently asked questions, and discussion forums where people just
like you are currently working to make this vision a reality.
So if the current political climate has you wondering what
liberties you might lose in the coming years, or what legacy your children
stand to inherit, please consider the Free State Project and the enormous
potential that its success would mean to us all. It's a new
andvery real chance for liberty in your lifetime.
(Contributed by R. Hawes)
Word of mouth continues to be the most effective recruiting tool for the Free State Project, and we wish to recognize the efforts of our most outstanding recruiters.
Publicity Workshop - Chat - 11/30/04
Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:
18:07:19 [katdillon] Thank you for coming, everyone. Tonight we have Steve
Cobb, FSP Publicity Director here
18:07:39 [katdillon] to talk about FSP publicity
18:07:39 [BaldEagle] Yay! (applause)
18:08:10 [katdillon] Steve, you certainly can offer an agenda
18:08:36 [scobb] Okay, then I'll start.
18:08:39 [scobb] Hello everyone. Thanks for taking the time to get involved!
18:08:49 [scobb] While the #1 goal here is to gather and share information
from all of you, I thought a reasonable agenda would be for me to
18:08:57 [scobb] 1. Define briefly the publicity framework
18:09:03 [scobb] 2. Mention a few of the current FSP activities and
18:09:09 [scobb] 3. Describe some the types of talent and resources that we
18:09:55 [scobb] Some of you are in the leadership, and so have had the
chance to see the draft Publicity Plan that I recently uploaded. Much of this
text will come from there, though there is too much to repeat here.
18:10:11 [scobb] The goal of Publicity is to move people into 3 succeeding
stages of attitude: Awareness --> Positive Attitude --> Enthusiasm
18:10:46 [scobb] I could think of 5 different categories of people that we
might target: 1. Influential libertarians, 2. Donors, 3. Self-identifying
libertarian potential participants, 4. Non-identifying libertarian potential
participants, 5. NH population
18:12:07 [scobb] Of the two extreme general strategies (1. Target
libertarians in their likely hideouts, and 2. Shotgun the general population ),
I tend to lean towards the first one.
18:13:37 [scobb] If we shotgun our publicity efforts, we'll hit few
libertarians and lots of statists. I believe that though the majority of
libertarians are now in the Awareness stage about the FSP, we could do a lot
more to move them towards Enthusiasm. To date, we have had the attitude that
people will pack th
18:14:05 [clhfreeguy] Hi, Phil, long time no see (3 minutes) Chris
18:14:07 [scobb] their bags as soon as they find out about the FSP. We need
more persuasive arguments.
18:14:44 [scobb] Phil Denisch is key to part of the publicity strategy:
18:15:05 [amanda42] steve - i actually disagree that the majority of
libertarians know about us - i would say that the majority of *online*
libertarians know about us. i still find people off-line who haven't heard of
18:15:21 [svillee] I agree with Amanda
18:15:28 [katdillon] same here
18:15:31 [RussellK] me too
18:15:50 [BaldEagle] Yeah, there are people out there who are "libertarians"
that didn't even know we were running a presidential candidate this election -
let alone that there's the FSP
18:15:54 [scobb] We have advertised in every libertarian periodical, right?
18:16:02 [amanda42] but i agree with everything else - targeting
libertarians is super important
18:16:42 [RichT] yeah, just b/c someone is a libertarian (even big-L)
doesn't mean they are more aware of what's going on.
18:16:44 [amanda42] i'm just saying... when i went to freedom summit in
arizona, more than half the people there didn't know anything about us
18:16:51 [BaldEagle] I find that "libertarian" periodicals are only read by
activists. We might as well be trying to recruit our navels.
18:17:07 [BaldEagle] Look outside of the typical libertarian communication
18:17:08 [scobb] What we have not yet tried is direct mail, but that is a
centralized function that is now finally grinding into motion, so we probably
don't need to talk about it here.
18:17:15 [RichT] Remember that a lot of libertarians hate politics, so may
not be paying any attention to our current marketing.
18:17:34 [BaldEagle] Find pockets of like minded individuals and target
18:18:33 [svillee] Libertarians are hard to reach, because they are
suspicious of the media, including "libertarian periodicals"
18:18:44 [scobb] If the mines with concentrated ore are mined out, then we
will have to mine places with lower concentrations. But the lower the
concentration, the more expensive and time consuming.
18:18:49 [BaldEagle] Computer people tend to be very libertarian, bikers,
home schoolers, and maybe 1/3 of gun owners
18:19:09 [scobb] Would such suspicious libertarians make good activists?
Maybe we don't need that kind.
18:19:51 [clhfreeguy] Good point Steve
18:20:10 [BaldEagle] I dunno man, I can get pretty "black helicopter"
paranoid, but I try to be a good libertarian and a good patriot too
18:20:44 [amanda42] lots of libertarians are busy with their businesses
& families, and they don't spend time on politics or libertarian
periodicals because they like to spend their time in successful endeavors. we
need *them* in the fsp
18:20:47 [RichT] Here in NH, we have seen the benefits of wide-scale
coverage (and some marketing), generating a favorable impression of the FSP so
we can generate prospects and move folks from the knowledgable to the
18:21:05 [svillee] Computer magazines might be a good avenue. Also gun
18:21:25 [amanda42] i stopped subscribing to liberty & reason years ago
when i discovered that i had no free time to read them. (of course, i
subscribed again after they featured us!)
18:21:51 [BaldEagle] We've got the carrot, now we just need to draw people's
attention to and highlight the statist sticks they are getting beaten with day
18:22:12 [scobb] I would say Computer and Gun magazines not for paid
advertising (very expensive, very low return), but for *articles*.
18:22:15 [amanda42] richt, that's awesome. but what we need most right now
is publicity outside of nh so we can get more people to join.
18:22:24 [katdillon] Steve's publicity plan for download:
18:22:30 [BaldEagle] I really liked the ad with the HS kids on the floor at
18:22:38 [RussellK] It also seems repetition helps...so people know we are
still alive and kicking
18:22:49 [RussellK] outside of NH
18:23:00 [katdillon] I agree totally about the articles
18:23:03 [Friday] thanks, Kat
18:23:04 [RussellK] I keep meeting people that know and like us in NH
18:23:06 [scobb] Evan's recent article in the gun nut (just kidding--don't
shoot me!) magazine is a prime example.
18:23:31 [RichT] I agree Amanda, I've been saying that for a while. I'm
encouraged by some of the ideas I've been hearing. I'm not up to speed on
what's being done.
18:24:16 [katdillon] I've been kicking around writing an article for
18:24:36 [BaldEagle] I've been thinking about making up some trifold fliers
for the Porcupine Festival
18:24:48 [BaldEagle] o highlight the fun and freedom and downplay the
18:24:56 [katdillon] nice idea
18:25:04 [scobb] "for" the festival or "about" the festival?
18:25:09 [BaldEagle] and putting them in gun stores, Walmart, gun shows, gun
18:25:29 [katdillon] to draw people to the freestate via the festival
18:25:30 [BaldEagle] Also local political meetings where people see the
horrors of zoning
18:25:51 [BaldEagle] We have to go in under the radar
18:26:06 [RichT] Whenver I travel out of state I find opportunities to put
FSP cards or flyers out where people will see them.
18:26:09 [katdillon] Some people will be drawn by the idea of living near so
many like minded people
18:26:18 [BaldEagle] Give people what THEY want before we ask them for what
18:26:45 [scobb] Good stuff, but Walmart? Not a libertarian hangout, but
that brings up a point: decentralization! We should provide the resources for
every individual to publicize according to his own preferences and priorities.
18:27:17 [BaldEagle] They have those bulletin boards where people hang
business cards and stuff
18:27:21 [BaldEagle] Walmart sells guns
18:27:23 [katdillon] people buy guns at Walmart
18:27:29 [George] Maybe we could target Joe libertarian sixpack at
18:27:33 [BaldEagle] Seemed natural to me
18:27:48 [clhfreeguy] you know Kat, that is for real, when you get so
frustrated to have like minded folks near by is really important
18:27:55 [amanda42] basically, i take fliers & cards with me everywhere
i go & i look for places to drop them
18:28:22 [katdillon] That's one of the coolest things about living in NH
18:28:31 [BaldEagle] I used to bring stuff with me onto the DC metro and
leave it behind on the seat when I left the car
18:28:51 [scobb] Let me ask a question: what resources do people need from
the central organization to facilitate their activism?
18:28:58 [BaldEagle] at every stop I'd move from car to car doing an
impromptu literature drop
18:29:17 [PhilD] money
18:29:32 [Friday] what Phil said!
18:29:36 [TimB] Steve, Graphics support for advertising layouts!
18:29:36 [BaldEagle] bulleted lists that summarize why people might want to
move to NH or attend the festival
18:29:50 [svillee] fliers and cards
18:29:57 [BaldEagle] I agree with Tim, but not with his color choice
18:30:04 [katdillon] We do need graphics help...all of us
18:30:07 [RichT] From central - Literature, proven ideas, local contacts,
18:30:16 [TimB] Sorry BaldE...I'm changing it.
18:30:27 [katdillon] Bill, you've seen the 101 Reasons to Move to NH?
18:30:31 [amanda42] resources needed: fliers, info, speakers,
18:30:32 [scobb] Graphics help is also my #1 need. Tim, try again!
18:30:50 [Friday] Gov. Benson was still in the 101 Reasons, last time I
18:31:00 [amanda42] what resources do amway & mary kay provide their
18:31:04 [katdillon] He's still in office
18:31:06 [BaldEagle] Yep, good point, Kat.
18:31:28 [amanda42] friday, i had a *ton* of updates to the 101 reasons that
i sent to michelle & still haven't seen yet. she's a busy lady.
18:31:32 [BaldEagle] Pens and notepads with "FSP" on them
18:31:37 [TimB] Ooh...nice question Amanda, I don't know. Cheerleading
18:31:37 [katdillon] amanda, Varrin's wife does Mary Kay. I pumped her for
info about that the other day
18:32:13 [katdillon] I need printed envelopes from the FSP
18:32:24 [RichT] Amanda, you still have those powerpoint slides we used for
the FSP "promo tour
18:32:38 [amanda42] steve asked what resources we need from hq... i was just
thinking about what other organizations do
18:32:41 [katdillon] One of the big things people get from Mary Kay is
18:32:59 [BaldEagle] If we had a running list that was sorted by ideas that
people voted for, it would be easy to look at whatever other people have
already come up with
18:33:03 [TimB] A continuation on ad graphics support....we've not been able
to get local volunteers so we're looking for a freelancer to hire.
18:33:13 [Friday] don't forget the pink cadillacs
18:33:20 [katdillon] and printed FSP header paper...blank with just a logo
18:33:28 [BaldEagle] so as not to duplicate efforts, and it could act as a
checklist in case people like me forget something they wanted to work on
18:33:42 [amanda42] rich, they're wicked out of date - they had all 10
states listed on them. i update it every time i use it. if anyone wants a
powerpoint presentation, drop me a note. firstname.lastname@example.org
18:34:36 [katdillon] Maybe we could ask Dave Mincin to try and find a
18:34:39 [clhfreeguy] Steve, please tell us your opinion as to what is the
most powerful pr/adv tool to reach our 14,000
18:34:46 [scobb] Hiring paid help is expensive, but at least the job gets
18:35:06 [TimB] Exactly
18:35:13 [scobb] Looking back at our more successful moments, we get few
signups from advertising, and more as a result of articles in respected places,
like Reason Magazine or a Walter E. Williams column. I personally thus favor
the strategy of 'persuade the persuader'.
18:35:21 [Toonces] Three cheers for Amanda's use of the adjective wicked...
man I miss NH...
18:35:39 [RichT] LOL
18:36:03 [katdillon] Yes, the numbers support steve's strategy
18:36:13 [TimB] So....we start a list of local persuaders and strike up
18:36:22 [RussellK] I agree with you stevec
18:36:23 [svillee] Okay, so who are the influential libertarians who need to
18:36:27 [katdillon] Great idea
18:36:34 [Friday] whatever happened with the guy from "the Man Show"?
18:36:36 [RichT] Articles seem to come from two things - generating news, or
having an interesting story to tell. What can the FSP do to get one or both?
18:36:39 [amanda42] toonces - that's wicked pissah
18:36:55 [amanda42] yep, target the magazines & the influential
18:37:07 [scobb] svillee, you just asked the $64 question.
18:37:07 [TimB] We've got a local shock-jock that we suspect is libertarian
leaning and couple members have said they would try to contact him, but have
18:37:11 [RussellK] the story to tell is all the people moving richt
18:37:16 [TimB] Chicago that is
18:37:17 [Toonces] For what it's worth, I had heard about the FSP at college
(in UNH) but actually go interested (and realized it was a bonafide movement)
when I heard Jason on NPR's This American Life... I don't know if
advertisements will ever really get Free Staters...
18:37:37 [BaldEagle] I had an idea about using file-sharing networks like
Kazaa, WinMX, eMule, etc.
18:37:40 [amanda42] the man show... doug stanhope still has us linked from
his website - we get a lot of hits & recruits from him.
18:37:55 [Toonces] I think most Free Staters are (and I can say this with a
smug amount of self-righteousness here) not the type to be persuaded by any
advertisement or short media spot.
18:37:57 [scobb] The $64K question is how to persuade them to actively help
us, i.e. move to the Enthusiasm stage.
18:38:12 [BaldEagle] Make MPG or AVI ads for the FSP, do short videos of the
18:38:12 [Friday] Penn Gillette just got married; let's send him a card :-)
18:38:13 [amanda42] like walter williams
18:38:17 [katdillon] how so Bill?
18:38:31 [scobb] Friday, good idea! How to get his address?
18:38:33 [BaldEagle] People send these things around by email
18:38:39 [BaldEagle] They share them with friends
18:39:00 [svillee] Based on Doug Stanhope's website, I'd say he's quite
18:39:03 [katdillon] Penn and Teller seem to know about us, just not
18:39:18 [BaldEagle] Other people use their own resources to spread them
around, and we don't pay for postage or anything
18:39:27 [svillee] Have they said why?
18:39:44 [Friday] email@example.com
18:39:53 [katdillon] don't know
18:40:53 [RichT] Penn&Teller did promote Badnarik during their act in
Vegas. Now that the campaign is over, if we can interest them in the FSP, they
might promote us.
18:41:00 [Friday] my dream endorser: Clint Eastwood
18:41:26 [BaldEagle] Not Clint, Mel Gibson!
18:41:48 [BaldEagle] The Patriot, Braveheart
18:41:52 [Friday] methinks Mel is NOT a libertarian
18:42:08 [RichT] "FREEDOM!!!"
18:42:08 [Friday] hey, I was talking politics, not looks ;-)
18:42:14 [Toonces] That could be a lot of fun. I'd love to make this magic
trick where a FSP volunteer vanishes off a Las Vegas stage and winds up in New
18:42:27 [BaldEagle] Learn to use people and what they've already done to
sell what you've got
18:42:29 [Toonces] No, Mel is more of a papal stormtrooper than a
18:42:33 [amanda42] isn't there a forum thread about this? libertarians whom
we'd love to have on our side
18:42:34 [clhfreeguy] Mayor Clint eastwood, banned ice cream on the
sidewalks of carmel
18:43:20 [TimB] Forum thread....it'd be a nice start....no recreating the
18:43:21 [BaldEagle] But what he said in the movies is unalterable - use
clips from the movies to stir people up
18:43:28 [scobb] Let's not worry about semi-maybe-libertarian celebrities.
There are plenty of real, self-identifying libertarians of influence, and we
need to get them on board. A simple endorsement is a good first step. Kat did a
great job getting an endorsement out of the president of the Mackinac Center.
18:44:03 [TimB] We've had a local member working on a Cato Institute contact
18:44:17 [RichT] We still looking for endorsements or words of support from
18:44:44 [katdillon] Yes Rich. We'd like welcome messages from lots of NH
18:44:59 [amanda42] richt, that would actually be helpful. it would show
some of the naysayers outside of nh that we're welcome here
18:45:07 [svillee] How about emailing people who do regular columns on sites
like Lew Rockwell? Ask them for their frank opinion of the FSP.
18:45:17 [katdillon] like these:
18:45:19 [BaldEagle] There's a guy named Kim DuToit who runs a website and
does "Ammo Day" - we might get a lot of hits if he put some FSP ads on his site
18:45:22 [amanda42] svillee, yes! great idea!
18:45:39 [RichT] I'll ask the folks who say they're happy the FSP is coming
if they'll make their feelings more public.
18:46:30 [katdillon] Anthony Gregory, who writes for Lew Rockwell, was
hanging out on our forum, so I asked him for an endorsement
18:46:40 [scobb] If someone can give me names and addresses of influential
libertarians, we (the Ricks) have 30 high-end packets waiting to mail to them.
18:46:42 [katdillon] He said he was thinking about doing an article on us
18:47:00 [Friday] I know Anthony; I can bug him
18:47:15 [katdillon] Cool, thanks Friday!
18:47:54 [Friday] Clint Eastwood really IS a libertarian; I know that's
18:48:03 [katdillon] Rich, you could write one too
18:48:40 [clhfreeguy] I talked with Lew rockwell about 2-3 weeks ago and
asked him if we might have some common connections and he was very standoffish,
I was taken aback because the Ludwig Von Mises Institute is very hard core
Libertarian and we should have liaisons. I am now contacting FEE in NY I think
they may be m
18:49:11 [RichT] I'll put it on my list...
18:49:22 [clhfreeguy] more receptive
18:49:29 [katdillon] cool
18:49:41 [svillee] Did Lew articulate his concerns at all? I'd really like
to understand them.
18:50:19 [BaldEagle] The band Poker Face that played at the LP National
Convention is a great way to reach media, young people, esp. college campuses
18:51:12 [Friday] I have tried ascertaining the leanings of the Violent
Femmes, but no luck yet
18:51:18 [BaldEagle] I think the biggest obstacle that people have brought
up and are most concerned about is the job market and NH economy
18:51:27 [scobb] We need some polished people to apply the hard sell to Lew
Rockwell and the rest of the libertarian establishment: their current methods
aren't "working", and endorsing us won't cost them anything. It's time for
them to walk the talk, if they really believe it.
18:51:46 [BaldEagle] If we successfully address that issue, we'll make major
18:51:55 [clhfreeguy] Well he seemed to intimate that since his organization
was not really a join up type of group that we wouldn't have much in common. I
didn't buy that but did't want to be too confrontative on first visit. I will
contact him later but hopefully with ;more inside contact like the guy hangin
18:52:15 [katdillon] polished people, amanda or jason?
18:52:35 [clhfreeguy] our site, maybe you could get his name and address.
18:52:35 [scobb] Perhaps some local NH people could partner with an
18:53:58 [katdillon] Evan's plan of moving businesses to NH should help the
18:53:59 [scobb] Amanda and Jason, for example. Not our loose cannon types,
and preferably people with credentials. Dr. Edelstein, for example--my brother
in SF was aware of him!
18:54:12 [clhfreeguy] Steve, I totally agree with you on that. They are not
an island but I think they think they are
18:54:16 [scobb] That is, aware of his support for us!
18:54:17 [RichT] The job market here is ... interesting. High tech is still
very selective. Office work is easy to come by.
18:54:32 [katdillon] (don't send me!)
18:54:56 [Friday] <-- completely unravelled cannon
18:54:58 [BaldEagle] Oooh. Office work. Why didn't you say so? Count me in!
18:54:59 [amanda42] i'm happy to work on people if you guys want to point me
in someone's direction
18:55:41 [BaldEagle] Massad Ayoob
18:56:21 [scobb] Amanda, where is Randy Barnett's endorsement?
18:56:39 [BaldEagle] Dr. Alexander Shulgin
18:56:59 [TimB] What's up with Badnarik? He's participant right? Any
possibility of getting him to be more active?
18:57:13 [amanda42] that's the influential libertarian lawyer i was
anonymously mentioning. i need to take him out to lunch again. work has been
tough for me lately so i haven't been able to get out for lnch
18:57:29 [katdillon] Seems like he'd have time now, but I heard he was going
to run for governor or something in TX
18:57:41 [svillee] I think a meeting between Amanda and Lew Rockwell could
be very productive, if it could be arranged.
18:57:42 [BaldEagle] Mas seems very republican/conservative, but he's a NH
resident and HIGHLY respected in the gun community
18:58:21 [clhfreeguy] Amanda, you can try Lew Rockwell, maybe the fem touch
will work better also Dr. Richard Ebeling at FEE 914-591-7230 (Foundation for
Economic Education) They were just in Georgia (Russia)
18:58:33 [BaldEagle] Shulgin is a HUGE figure in the "drug subculture" and
writes lots of articles about freedom and ending the drug war
18:58:37 [amanda42] in my experience, these things tend to work best if you
accidentally bump into each other at a libertarian event. i'd be happy to
schedule meetings with people and don the power suit
19:01:28 [PhilD] I looking for a volunteer to keep track of the LP
conventions over the next year
19:01:41 [PhilD] ure we have a presence at as many as possible.
19:01:47 [katdillon] have they been losing conventions?
19:01:51 [amanda42] so who else should we target? what other influential
libertarians can we approach? and how do we contact them?
19:01:58 [svillee] I agree, it may be best to find some event Lew is
attending, and accidentally bump into him there.
19:02:01 [Friday] let me know how I can help, Phil
19:02:03 [PhilD] and make s... (should be in there)
19:02:23 [svillee] What are some big names at the Cato Institute?
19:02:49 [PhilD] please to fork over email or contact me at
19:02:54 [RichT] PJ O'rourke lives in NH. I think someone asked him about
the FSP (or was it the LP?) in an article.
19:02:59 [Friday] Dr. Tom Palmer
19:03:11 [katdillon] would targeting more activist groups be better than
targeting these groups based on discussing theory, like Cato and Lew Rockwell?
19:03:20 [Friday] Phil, my email is firstname.lastname@example.org
19:03:31 [amanda42] i've already spoken with pj - oddly, he seems too busy
selling books to want to help us
19:03:45 [scobb] Target them all! The important thing is that they be
19:03:55 [katdillon] PJ O'Rourke lives not too far from me
19:04:10 [scobb] Kat, could you get his address?
19:04:18 [amanda42] and i think he must be gay because he is the first
libertarian guy i've never been able to persuade with a wink & a smile
(while still wearing a professional power suit, of course)
19:04:36 [amanda42] just kidding about pj - who else should we contact?
19:04:36 [katdillon] I'll check the phone book :P
19:04:44 [katdillon] lol
19:04:48 [Friday] oh, Toonces...
19:05:07 [BaldEagle] No, he's definitely gotta be gay
19:05:15 [amanda42] tom palmer is a good idea - maybe we can get adam or
kate rick to accidentally bump into him down in washington
19:06:31 [clhfreeguy] Hey no joke, this bumping into idea can really work
19:06:38 [scobb] Kate at least occasionally visits Cato. I will probably
move there in January, so I will visit often also. It would be helpful to have
some logo promo items to leave behind there, like puzzle key chains.
19:07:28 [PhilD] Speaking of merchandise...
19:07:44 [svillee] Kate may have already bumped into everyone at Cato worth
19:07:56 [PhilD] should we have a non-fsp branded item that might be popular
inthe general liberty public?
19:08:17 [PhilD] something like a tshirt with "I'm liberty-minded...and
19:08:26 [BaldEagle] Porcupine-brand alcohol, tobacco, and firearms?
19:08:35 [RichT] the stuffed/puppet porcupines were very popular, people
still ask about them.
19:08:50 [svillee] I want one of those!
19:09:14 [katdillon] Phil are there still porcupine crossing signs?
19:09:19 [PhilD] Note made, I'll check into getting some.
19:09:24 [amanda42] i have the ordering info - i'll have to check with the
leadership circle before i can order the porcupines
19:09:40 [amanda42] or i can pass the info along to phil & steve
19:09:53 [katdillon] ordering porcupines...that's gotta be worse than
19:16:06 [scobb] Another topic: who could be project manager for the "Lose
Your Chains" campaign? That was Evan's idea to get into Guinness Book of World
Records for most chains contributed/collected. We would announce the results at
PorcFest, and have the chains made into an objet d'art.
19:16:36 [BaldEagle] I could go to the Porc Fest from Richmond, accidentally
19:16:42 [PhilD] How long does it need to be - is it doable?
19:16:46 [scobb] I'm not big on publicity stunts, but I think this would
attract the right attention.
19:17:25 [BaldEagle] My god, do you know what the shipping on that many
chains would be?
19:17:34 [RichT] Speaking of outside-NH publicity, how goes the regional
19:17:55 [BaldEagle] There are regional ones? :O
19:18:04 [scobb] Each person would ship just a single, small chain, to
someone near PorcFest.
19:20:58 [BaldEagle] Who is running the regional festivals, and when?
19:21:31 [RussellK] I think Brian Sullivan has one going in upstate NY
19:21:44 [RussellK] and there is talk of LA or Vegas
19:21:56 [amanda42] we had a small turnout at the one in ny, but it was
still a good time
19:22:07 [amanda42] we should do more of the regional ones
19:22:29 [RichT] How was the promotion before and coverage after?
19:22:45 [RussellK] exactly rich
19:23:00 [scobb] I see no mention of regional Porc Fests:
19:23:56 [scobb] Wouldn't we rather have one big annual Porc Fest, and spend
the rest of the year focused on recruiting?
19:24:43 [amanda42] regional porcfests are good for recruiting - get free
staters and non-free-staters in the same place at the same time for a nice
19:24:50 [BaldEagle] Depends - I like the idea of a smaller, but less
isolated Porc Fest - have it near something else that's big and get people's
19:24:55 [katdillon] I think people getting together to talk is the best way
to get them active
19:25:29 [amanda42] a lot of people want to meet their fellow porcs before
they'll join - the regional porcfests give them that opportunity.
19:25:38 [BaldEagle] We could reach a lot of people through "leakage" from a
larger, more mainstream event
19:25:53 [amanda42] if we publicize the regional porcfests correctly, we can
get local media attention out of it
19:26:03 [RussellK] I kindof like the idea of 2 fests that is floating
19:26:07 [katdillon] man, talking about Depends and now leakage
19:26:31 [amanda42] there's no mention of it on the site because the ny one
has come and gone. there were lots of mentions when brian was planning it
19:27:22 [BaldEagle] OK Kat: Go take a time-out in the corner and eat your
Olestra potato chips
19:27:38 [scobb] As long as these fests really are a means to an end, and
don't become a distracting feel-good end in themselves...
19:27:46 [katdillon] it's time for me to take an all night time out
19:28:08 [katdillon] God, we wouldn't want to enjoy life along the way
19:28:27 [scobb] I wrote a haiku about Olestra once: Pooh-pooed Olestra,
succumbed to its temptation, poo-pooed Olestra.
19:28:44 [BaldEagle] Raising morale and getting people pumped with a taste
of what the Free State can be like is a laudable goal in itself
19:28:47 [katdillon] good one
19:29:03 [amanda42] having a good time at a regional porcfest *is* a
19:29:14 [BaldEagle] Exactly
19:29:27 [BaldEagle] Plug the fun, not the politics
19:29:49 [scobb] Yes, but...we have a growing tendency to take our eyes off
the prize. I understand that it *might be* a good recruititng tool , but it can
also easily be a distraction.
19:29:50 [BaldEagle] We're recruiting Americans, not Soviets
19:30:08 [RussellK] If I don't have fun at a local group meeting ... I would
stop showing up
19:30:47 [BaldEagle] Yeah, I'm losing steam at my county government meetings
19:31:19 [BaldEagle] All zoning and no political debate makes bored out of
my stinkin' mind
19:31:25 [scobb] Look, no one is saying we shouldn't socialize and have a
good time, but if the FSP becomes a club instead of a movement, it will fail.
We invested an unbelievable amount of effort into PorcFest 2004.
19:31:30 [amanda42] fyi, new england town meetings are a *lot* of fun. i'm
19:31:42 [scobb] Show me the numbers.
19:32:20 [BaldEagle] Right, but the goal is to plug the fun to people
OUTSIDE of the FSP, and use it as a recruiting tool and a way to generate
material for media
19:32:27 [amanda42] lots of people visit the porcfest before the decide to
sign up with the fsp
19:32:47 [BaldEagle] Whatever happened to the documentaries that were being
19:32:49 [amanda42] mrs edelstein joined at our 2004 porcfest, for example,
while dr edelstein has yet to sign up
19:32:55 [katdillon] Thanks for coming everyone. Good night! If someone
could do a /save and send me the transcript, I'd appreciate it.
19:33:10 [svillee] remember that second stage of publicity: positive
attitude. comes from having fun.
19:33:15 [BaldEagle] Sure, Kat.
19:33:19 [amanda42] lots of people joined at the escape to nh in 2003
19:33:25 [amanda42] goodnight, kat
19:33:40 [katdillon] thanks Bill!
19:33:43 [BaldEagle] Good Night, say Hi to Kira
19:33:44 [scobb] Good point, svillee. We should be inviting VIPs to PorcFest
19:33:49 [amanda42] and we got a few great media stories out of porcfest
19:33:55 [PhilD] 'night Kat
19:34:18 [amanda42] it's about the only thing we do anymore that is
19:34:27 [PhilD] Does Varrin have anyone big on the list yet?
19:35:34 [BaldEagle] Yes, Steve. A major big-time blowout Freedom orgy where
anarcho-capaitalists have a great time, don't break any laws, and do a service
to the community
19:35:35 [scobb] PorcFest 2004 was definitely a success. I'm just leery of
decreasing reward, if we have more for our own feel-good benefit rather than
out of practical considerations.
19:35:36 [RussellK] he is trying for walter williams
19:37:05 [amanda42] steve, the idea for the regional porcfests came out of a
brainstorming session with the fsp-doers on things we could do to recruit more
19:38:15 [scobb] Well, anything that gets people more involved.
19:39:41 [scobb] I have to be going soon myself. Does anyone have something
more they want to suggest or, better yet, a project they want to run with?
19:39:59 [amanda42] maybe they're working really hard to save the money so
they can move
19:40:26 [PhilD] Not that isn't already on the burner.
19:47:40 [scobb] It seems to me that the server or network has slowed down,
so maybe this is a good time to close the session?
19:48:17 [PhilD] I think that's about it for me - G'night
19:48:39 [svillee] sounds like a plan. good night.
19:49:08 [BaldEagle] I thought it was just my crappy machine coupled with
dialup from Richmond to MD and using Internet Exploder
19:50:11 [BaldEagle] Anyone can email me for any reason at
creativechemist888 - at - yahoo - dot - com
19:51:39 [scobb] Yeah, time to sign out.
19:52:08 [BaldEagle] Thanks Steve, good night
Liaisons Workshop with Chris Harrison - Chat - 12/14/04
Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:
18:00:45 [Chris] Hi all and welcome to the Liaisons chat this evening.
Boy is it ever cold down here in alabama.
18:01:08 [Randall_W] Same here in Kentucky; brrrrr
18:01:20 [Randall_W] The NHers are probably laughing at us =)
18:01:46 [Chris] Tonight we want to discuss those things that you have
used successfully in your endeavors to recruit FSP members. Anyone can start
the ball rolling
18:02:05 [HardyInVT] We have snow in VT. The low temp for tonight is 17
18:02:25 [katdillon] It's 18 degrees right now in keene
18:02:33 [Chris] We are going into the teens in AL also.
18:03:22 [Randall_W] My way of recruiting probably won't help others
much, but I've found the best way to go is to start teaching people about punk
rock philosphy, then libertarianism, then the FSP
18:03:31 [Randall_W] while making sure not to use too many big words =)
18:03:53 [Randall_W] Most people get confused if you get into economics
or anything too deep
18:03:54 RussellK enters this room
18:03:55 >[RussellK] Welcome to our chat. Please obey the net etiquette
while chatting: try to be pleasant and polite.
18:04:19 [Chris] Hi Russell
18:04:29 [HardyInVT] oops, 17 was the high. 3 is the low tonight.
18:04:36 [RussellK] Hello
18:04:38 [Randall_W] Welcome Russell
18:04:57 [RussellK] I follow much the same pattern as Randall
18:04:58 [katdillon] Someone signed up recently because of Randall
18:05:09 [Randall_W] Yar, my friend Patrick
18:05:17 [Randall_W] with signs from his family and friends on the way
18:05:19 [RussellK] except where do you teach people about moose?
18:05:35 [Randall_W] LMAO
18:05:52 [RussellK] I thought I recognized Corbin KY
18:05:53 [danhynes] i lived in nh my whole life and never saw a moose,
only on dumb road signs
18:05:59 [danhynes] err ny
18:06:03 Erethizon enters this room
18:06:05 [Randall_W] Most people know that story without me mentioning it
=P I still get stopped by random people on the street and asked about my walk
and such =P
18:06:36 [RussellK] So when do you do another publicity stunt?
18:06:51 [Randall_W] I volunteered to get arrested not long ago, hehe
18:06:58 [danhynes] what for
18:06:59 [RussellK] It worked so well last time even though we didn't
plan it enough or anything.
18:07:05 [Randall_W] I'm back in action and ready for more stunts as they
are thought of =)
18:07:08 [Randall_W] =P
18:07:11 [danhynes] i wanna do that but my fiance yells at me
18:07:35 [RussellK] get arrested danh?
18:08:00 [danhynes] i tell her martin luther kind was arrested, and then
she says it was for a good cause, and i say the fsp is a good cause
18:08:03 [danhynes] yea
18:09:18 [Chris] So you NHites, what is happening in the soon to be Free
18:09:57 [svillee] it's getting cold
18:10:07 [Randall_W] hehe, I bet
18:10:54 [svillee] A few other people are moving into the Berlin area.
Dave Mincin points them my way.
18:11:05 [Chris] How much sunshine do you have up there in the winter? I
can handle the cold if its sunny but don't like dreary cold days
18:11:39 [danhynes] for you people that moved to nh how did you decide
which part, im pretty much interested in keene or manchester or nashua
18:11:45 [RussellK] it rains a lot here
18:11:54 [RussellK] but when it is cold it is sunny
18:12:02 [RussellK] Keene baby
18:12:09 [RussellK] Keene is the place to be
18:12:20 [katdillon] I put all the NH news I can gather here
18:12:21 [svillee] Yes, the coldest days are usually clear weather.
18:12:24 [Randall_W] Seems like everyone wants to go to the northern part
of the state, not many people going to the seacoast or other areas
18:12:28 [RussellK] we are doing a UN Flag burning in Keene on Saturday
18:12:38 [Chris] Varrin said he really like Keene
18:12:39 [katdillon] How many porcupines are up there, Steve?
18:12:47 [Randall_W] Sounds like fun =)
18:12:56 [danhynes] what do you like about keene that the others done
have. yes i noticed that. ill be in boston though, maybe ill be able to get
time to stop by
18:13:04 [RussellK] Varrin and I are determined to make Keene the
ultimate Porc destination
18:13:08 [danhynes] anyone here not from keene?
18:13:32 [Chris] Anyone who burns a UN flag is ok in my book. We need to
get the UN out of the Us and get the US out of the UN
18:13:59 [Randall_W] We need to get the US out of a lot of places =P
18:14:02 [danhynes] i didnt even know the un did so much until i read
that email, i thought the us already hated the un
18:14:05 [RussellK] and we will be openly carrying our sidearms while the
UN Flag burns
18:14:06 [katdillon] We're getting some postive reactions from the press
about it already
18:14:43 scsmedia enters this room
18:15:18 [RussellK] I know it is hard to decide what part of NH to move
18:15:28 [RussellK] but you will like any of it
18:15:51 [Chris] The UN has perpetrated the largest scam in the history
of the world and the US media hardly covers it (oil for food)
18:15:52 [RussellK] Keene is such a cute little town and not as expensive
as I was expecting
18:16:03 [katdillon] Chris, would you like to take up the question you
posed on the olist about how to encourage 6000 to recruit?
18:16:10 [Randall_W] Wasn't much of a choice for me, the entire punk
scene in NH is centered around Portsmouth, so I figure I can do the most good
18:16:18 [svillee] At the moment just one other up here, but two more
will arrive in a couple of months.
18:16:26 [RussellK] The oil for food is mostly what prompted Dada Orwell
to want to burn the flag
18:16:29 [katdillon] and just think, that is our tax money going into
18:16:45 [RussellK] oh I am sure you will like Portsmouth
18:16:49 [katdillon] Great, steve...it's so much more fun with company
18:17:04 [RussellK] Keene really has a college town feel downtown. It is
18:17:05 [Randall_W] I hope so =)
18:17:11 [Chris] No joke and they are using some of the money to kill
18:17:16 [danhynes] are you actually in keene or a suberb. i read
somewhere keene is liberal but the suberbs are conserv
18:17:19 [Randall_W] I know the cost of living is bad compared to other
areas, but it should be worth it
18:17:34 [katdillon] in keene
18:17:42 [RussellK] Keene isn't big enough to have suburbs
18:17:51 [RussellK] it is only 30000
18:18:09 [katdillon] Chris, that's horrible
18:18:10 [RussellK] That would be true of Manchester
18:18:24 [RussellK] places like Nashua are all suburb
18:18:27 [scsmedia] in NH /Maine, that is vconsidered the big city
18:18:29 [Chris] Someone said some FSPer have moved to Berlin. What is
that town like and what do they do for a living up there?
18:18:31 [danhynes] that sounds kinda big to me, i guess i grew up in a
town with 30k
18:18:39 [katdillon] you could consider winchester and such places
18:19:10 [Randall_W] that's small to me, I'm from a town of 275k, no
matter where I go in NH is gonna feel small =P
18:19:23 [svillee] The main employer in Berlin is a paper mill.
18:19:39 [katdillon] I just came from Dallas with more people than all of
18:19:50 [katdillon] love it here
18:19:55 [RussellK] The real fun when you get here is hanging out with
other Porcupines for me
18:20:04 [svillee] The main attraction of Berlin is that houses are very
18:20:22 [RussellK] I almost joined svillee in Berlin
18:20:28 [Chris] Are they igloos?
18:20:34 [RussellK] but fell in love with a girl in Keene
18:20:35 [katdillon] But once in a while, we have to encourage Russell to
come down outta the trees
18:21:42 [danhynes] whats RLC stand for
18:21:50 [katdillon] We're also starting a school in Keene, teaching
constitution and such...for homeschoolers and adults at first
18:22:32 [RussellK] Republican Liberty Caucus
18:22:35 [Chris] For you NHites. How have you found the people of NH to
be say politically, socially. Are they friendly or cold? Give me a real in
depth feeling of what folks are really like in NH
18:22:42 [katdillon] Republican Liberty Caucus...Ron Paul Republicans
18:23:01 [danhynes] thanks, i dont know much about them, i will look into
18:23:08 [RussellK] friendly like small town folks around here
18:23:22 [katdillon] people are real friendly. politically everything is
18:23:24 nbrnxtdr enters this room
18:23:31 [RussellK] I was thinking they would be 'flinty' but they are
18:23:43 [RussellK] very political all over the place
18:23:51 [danhynes] does anyone know if any fsp people hold any sort of
office / town council or anything
18:23:56 [RussellK] lots of political bumper stickers
18:24:12 [RussellK] in keene a mix of liberals and gun nuts
18:24:13 [katdillon] When I was moving in, the little old lady next door
offered to help me move stuff!
18:24:30 [katdillon] We have a couple members who are state reps
18:24:36 [Chris] That is cool!
18:24:50 [RussellK] but none of the new people have gotten into office
18:24:55 [katdillon] they were NH residents before the move
18:24:59 [RussellK] just previous NHites
18:24:59 [Chris] Thats cool also
18:25:14 [katdillon] No. Dawn Lincoln was asked to run for school board
18:25:25 [katdillon] Hasn't really been enough time yet for most offices
18:25:30 [RussellK] Karl Beisel is running for the house next time in
18:26:02 [katdillon] seemed like Cal Pratt was thinking about running for
18:26:18 [RussellK] Free Staters have been a real encouragement to office
holders that believe in liberty
18:26:41 [katdillon] Yes, they've been very appreciative of our help
18:26:54 [RussellK] We have met quite a few decent polititians(oxymoron?)
18:27:04 [Chris] I was hoping Evan Nappen would check in tonight as he is
a monster in getting things done.
18:27:40 pstudier enters this room
18:27:44 [katdillon] He seems real busy. We had a great chat with him
last week though
18:27:48 [RussellK] The polititians in the state house are not like
polititians I have met before
18:28:12 [RussellK] they only make $100 and have no staff or campaign
18:28:12 [katdillon] BTW, hello to those who just came in. Feel free to
jump right in.
18:28:29 [katdillon] so they can really use volunteer staff
18:28:37 [RussellK] they are like retired guys that want to keep taxes
18:28:40 [Chris] They must do it because they believe in it, it can't be
for the money.
18:28:59 [RussellK] of coarse there are bad ones too, but we can work
18:29:04 [danhynes] i had a debate about the $100 with someone, does such
a low pay lead those in it to get kickbacks or such by supporting anything
18:29:04 [Randall_W] On the previously mentioned topic, I've found
liberals are a lot easier to recruit than conservatives (yet everyone else
seems to think otherwise??)
18:29:12 [RussellK] chris yea
18:29:28 [RussellK] i don't think they get major kickbacks
18:29:32 [RussellK] there are 400 of them
18:29:43 [Randall_W] It seems to me that most liberals don't care about
economics much (except the ones that are full out socialists) and are pretty
easy to convince on economics
18:29:46 [katdillon] Some of the Democrats I met at the state house and
rallies were real nice
18:29:48 [RussellK] in some ways yes Randall
18:30:02 [RussellK] but since I am conservative that is my world
18:30:07 pstudier exits from this room
18:30:12 [Randall_W] most of them are frustrated with the demoncrats,
because they aren't really making any social progress worth mentioning
18:30:21 [RussellK] that makes sense
18:30:24 [danhynes] my other idea was that cuz of the low money it
wouldnt allow the smartest people to hold office because they would want to
work somewhere where they make a lot of money, like attorneys
18:31:00 [katdillon] Keeping attorneys out of office sounds like a good
18:31:08 [RussellK] it also keeps out many career polititians
18:31:17 [Randall_W] Definitely a good plan =)
18:31:27 [Chris] Which has to be good
18:31:38 [RussellK] the founding fathers were smart and didn't do it for
18:31:59 [danhynes] i would think so, except i would like to think the
best people should be in there for a long time
18:32:29 [Chris] Career politicians for the most part are slime and scum,
parasites who don't know how to work
18:32:31 [katdillon] I don't think there are any term limits
18:32:40 [RussellK] If any of you have NH questions, feel free to email
anyone in NH that has moved recently like Kat and I we would all love to give
18:32:40 HardyVT enters this room
18:32:46 [danhynes] yeah i just meant they couldnt afford to make a
career out of it
18:33:14 [Chris] Probably the $100 is the term limit
18:33:16 [RussellK] lots of the guys seem retired and then do it for
quite a while
18:34:48 [RussellK] so does anyone have requiting successes to talk
18:35:08 [katdillon] recruiting?
18:35:18 [RussellK] lol
18:35:19 [Chris] It seems that many really good politicians start out
real conservative and really watching out for your and my dollar but as they
are in there longer and longer something happens to them. (orrin Hatch from
18:35:29 [katdillon] We do have some re-quitting going on
18:35:53 [RussellK] I grew up in Utah Chris and I never understood orrin
18:36:20 [RussellK] he cannot lose his reelection bid, but he is a sleazy
polititian all the way
18:37:01 [RussellK] He should be standing for the people and kicking but
in DC because he doesn't have to worry about politics back home
18:37:27 [Chris] Well, there is this Libertarian talk show host in
Birmingham who was talking about the FSP for about 20 minutes and we got 3
members in this area signed up around then. Not sure if there is a connection
but I plan to be a guest on the show soon
18:37:56 [danhynes] is anyone going to the bill of rights sunday in
18:38:40 [danhynes] err reading thing
18:38:54 [RussellK] I have too many fun things to do in NH
18:39:06 jsorens enters this room
18:39:11 [RussellK] are you going danh?
18:39:17 [katdillon] Hi Jason
18:39:33 [RussellK] quiet quiet the teacher entered the room
18:39:37 [katdillon] That's great, Chris
18:39:38 [Chris] Hi Jason
18:39:48 [RussellK] Hi prof
18:39:49 [jsorens] hi kat
18:39:55 [jsorens] and everyone else
18:40:00 [danhynes] im not sure yet, i have to convince my fiance to go
or let me go
18:40:08 [RussellK] you had a guy talk about the
18:40:18 [RussellK] FSP for 20 minutes?
18:40:51 [jsorens] im sure those signups were related. when radio hosts
talk about the fsp, people sign up
18:40:59 [jsorens] boortz has been responsible for dozens of our signups
18:41:26 [Chris] Yes and I didn't hear it, a friend of mine told me about
it but we did get 3 new signers right near that time.
18:41:40 [katdillon] boortz has about 150 sign ups
18:41:55 [RussellK] yea some people have issues with boortz, but he is
one of our best recruiters
18:42:30 [Randall_W] Well guys and gals, I hate to run, but I have to go
back to work and give everyone rides home (I was the only preson with a car and
I made them let me leave to be here)
18:42:56 [Randall_W] Seeya guys next time
18:43:08 [RussellK] watch out for ....you know on your way home
18:43:15 [Chris] This guy's name is Richard Dixon, he admires Boortz and
I think I will have a good chance to get on hi show. I mean, please this is
18:43:36 Randall_W exits from this room
18:44:13 [katdillon] Watch for stray moose, Randall
18:44:41 [RussellK] cool Chris Dada Orwell has great success getting on
talk radio in NH
18:45:01 [RussellK] he doesn't talk FSP though here
18:45:11 [RussellK] just liberty issues as they come up
18:45:26 [Chris] IRadio shows are powerful, especially those with large
listnership. If any of you can get on a show do it. If you don't feel competent
to do it, get the FSP speakers group to get someone to attend. They are ready
18:47:40 [Chris] Jason, what wisdom can you share with the Liaisons
18:49:14 [katdillon] Apparently the talk show host in Keene is a member
of Tim's RLC
18:49:26 [Chris] Russell what do you mean that he doesn't talk FSP though
18:50:39 [RussellK] well since he is in NH he doesn't need to recruit
people for the FSP so he just calls in with a libertarian perspective
18:51:08 [Chris] OK I see what you mean
18:52:09 [RussellK] that is one of the good things about being outside of
NH...you can recruit like everyone on this forum
18:52:27 [RussellK] an update on my liaison...
18:53:00 [RussellK] I am the trucking liaison and one of our friends here
is a truck driver in MA VT and NH
18:53:33 [RussellK] so I am roping him into helping me reach out to truck
drivers, since he knows the rules here for commercial drivers
18:53:35 [Chris] If we could get Hannity or Boortz to give us some time
it would be very powerful. Limbaugh has 20 million. He was ranting on the UN
oil for food today, he almost sounded like the old Rush when he really was
18:54:50 [Chris] Russell, tell us more about the trucking liaison
activity, that sounds like it could have really great potential
18:55:20 [RussellK] cool Rush was talking oil for food days before our UN
flag burning lol
18:56:08 [RussellK] I have been kindof distracted (newlywed you know) but
there is good potential
18:56:14 [Chris] Call him and tell him to come up and hold the flag
18:57:31 [RussellK] I thought we were planning of Rush making it
Saturday... didn't he RSVP already?
18:57:45 [RussellK] well back to the truckers
18:58:15 [RussellK] they are another group like randalls puck rockers and
open source guys
18:58:32 [RussellK] that are predisposed to distrust the government
18:59:01 [RussellK] they love to put anti gov stickers on their trucks
18:59:16 [RussellK] one idea is to come up with a FSP porc magnet
18:59:23 [RussellK] to stick on the truck cabs
18:59:29 PatK enters this room
18:59:49 [RussellK] so you can use it even if you don't own your own
truck like "company" drivers
19:00:17 [RussellK] a way for them to tweak the government, just by
putting it on their cab
19:00:48 [RussellK] I am researching in what ways NH is a good choice as
a 'home' for truck drivers
19:01:14 [Chris] Taxes would be one I suppose
19:01:17 [RussellK] long haul truck drivers "live" in whatever state
works best for taxes and regulations already
19:01:24 [RussellK] yea
19:01:46 [RussellK] one good thing for truckers is buying your truck in
NH because of no Sales Tax
19:01:54 monroe enters this room
19:02:02 [RussellK] but MT has that too and a couple of others
19:02:23 [RussellK] but a bad things is NH is a little bit of a pain with
19:02:35 [RussellK] so I have to keep on researching
19:02:46 [RussellK] and eventually get rid of some rules here in NH
19:02:55 [PatK] how hey you truckers wanna hit a Moose = come to New
19:03:01 [RussellK] so that is what we are up to in the truck driver
19:03:04 [katdillon] Varrin designed a magnetic sign that you could
likely get more of
19:03:19 [katdillon] Randall can give training on that
19:03:21 [RussellK] you missed randall ....he left
10 minutes ago
19:03:45 [RussellK] anyone else have an update?
19:03:51 [Chris] Man, when you figure all of the trucks on the road that
equals a lot of signs going up and down the roads.
19:03:56 [PatK] Did he talk about his porc tattoo?
19:04:39 [Chris] Whose porc tatoo?
19:04:40 [katdillon] I doubt Varrin has a tattoo
19:05:01 [PatK] no Randall
19:05:06 [RussellK] that would be cool right? and truck drivers talk
too...all the time...word of mouth advertising
19:05:44 monroe exits from this room
19:05:48 [Chris] Would it be possible to advertise the FSP in the trucker
19:05:50 [PatK] Varrin he he could get a driveway tattoo
19:06:08 [RussellK] yea chris
19:06:13 [katdillon] It would be too wide for his skinny frame
19:06:28 [katdillon] Are there trucker magazines?
19:06:28 [PatK] lol
19:06:30 [Chris] What is a driveway tattoo?
19:06:36 [RussellK] there are certain ones that truckers read from cover
to cover in truck stops
19:06:48 [RussellK] lots of trucker magazines
19:06:54 [katdillon] assalt driveway tattoo
19:07:01 [nbrnxtdr] Another trucker (from Maine) looking in with great
19:07:13 [katdillon] maybe that's why we got so many signups from Playboy
19:07:22 [katdillon] Welcome
19:07:30 [PatK] if you stop at a flyijng j or Iron Skillet resturant you
see plenty of truckers mags
19:07:35 [RussellK] a trucker from maine?
19:07:52 [RussellK] what did he have to say about the FSP?
19:08:12 [nbrnxtdr] In PA on the way to FL . . Yahoo!
19:08:32 [RussellK] nbrnxtdr are you a truck driver?
19:08:59 [nbrnxtdr] I prefer "professional tourist". .
19:09:08 [RussellK] cool
19:09:10 [katdillon] lol
19:09:17 [RussellK] so how did you hear about us?
19:09:38 [RussellK] who do you drive for or do you own your rig?
19:09:41 [Chris] OK I got it. So you think you are really free driving a
rig down the road right? Well think again, DOT regulations and fees and taxes,
payroll taxes, excise taxes on your tires and cigars, do you think your kids
are being taught to be free in their schools/ Got question contact us for
19:09:53 [Chris] your lifetime
19:10:03 [nbrnxtdr] Asmainegoes.com . . a few years ago, when Maine was
still a contendor
19:10:07 [RussellK] I leased a truck from CR England for a while
19:10:31 [RussellK] oh cool
19:10:34 [scsmedia] nbrnxtdr: are you taxfoe on AMG
19:11:02 [RussellK] hey chris I think all truck drivers already know they
are not free...they fill out forms all the time and deal with scales etc.
19:11:14 [scsmedia] I am Steven S
19:11:19 [nbrnxtdr] One and the same . .
19:11:55 [RussellK] so are you just checking us out?
19:11:59 [Chris] Then they are prime targets for the FSP. You hit a
goldmine Russell, now we just need you to complete your honeymoon.
19:12:16 [RussellK] we love visitors...even professional tourists
19:12:22 [katdillon] No way...that's going on for years
19:12:41 [nbrnxtdr] I've known of you for years
19:12:48 [RussellK] I would love to hook up with truckers as they join
the FSP ....they can help us recruit
19:13:17 [RussellK] hey nbrnxtdr...would you like to join the FSP and
help me recruit?
19:13:32 [nbrnxtdr] Steve . . how about you . . what's your interest
19:14:48 [Chris] Hey, folks, our time is one hour officially. You all can
stay as long as you want but this dude is checking out. Thanks for all of your
input liaisons and I'll be in touch soon. Thanks for coming
19:15:06 [nbrnxtdr] I'll consider it after I've learned more. Presently,
i'm looking for a new place to have my mail sent.
19:15:10 [katdillon] Thanks Chris. G'night
19:15:24 [RussellK] see ya...I will stay for a while longer
19:15:25 svillee exits from this room
19:15:44 [scsmedia] just observing. I am very active in republican
politics in Maine.
19:16:18 [scsmedia] I would love to replicate your work here. Although we
need 50K jsut to move southern Maine
19:16:20 [katdillon] Is the republican liberty caucus active in NH?
19:16:26 [nbrnxtdr] I know. Very active on AMG as well. Good for you.
19:17:09 [katdillon] I mean in Maine
19:17:28 [scsmedia] no
19:17:47 [scsmedia] only recently heard of it
19:20:53 nbrnxtdr exits from this room
19:21:13 [katdillon] Good night all. Thanks for coming!
Q & A Chat Workshop with Jason Sorens - 12/21/04
Here's a transcript of the chat that took place:
18:01:14 [jsorens] michael - dr matt barney sent me a book recently:
'influence' by cialdini... have you read it?
18:01:41 rothameric enters this room
18:01:51 [HardyVT] What is everyone using for operating systems? Anything
other than Windows 98-XP, MacOS 8,9,X, or Linux(x86)?
18:02:07 Aldridge enters this room
18:02:12 [katdillon] Hi scott
18:02:21 [MiclEdlstn] Yes--excellent ideas on how to motivate people to
help you achieve your goals.
18:02:26 [rothameric] Hey Kat. How are you?
18:02:42 [katdillon] Really? Sounds like an interesting book
18:02:46 [MiclEdlstn] I continue to make use of his suggestions.
18:02:47 [katdillon] Great
18:03:04 [jsorens] it was a really interesting read. he does a good job of
popularizing psychological research.
18:03:24 [katdillon] Would you like to get started?
18:03:30 [jsorens] sure
18:03:41 [MiclEdlstn] Yes. It's the type of book just about everyone would
18:04:03 [katdillon] Welcome everyone. Thanks for coming. Tonight we have
Jason Sorens, Free State Founder here to answer your questions.
18:04:44 [jsorens] there's no set agenda, so feel free to fire away on any
18:05:12 SkippyBob enters this room
18:05:15 [HardyVT] can we get rid of this phpchat/
18:05:16 [MiclEdlstn] Jason, perhaps you can give a "State of the Free
18:06:18 [jsorens] hardy - i hope so...we're using this now b/c its easy
for people, & they dont have to download or install anything
18:07:14 [jsorens] michael - as we're coming to the end of 2004, we're now
assessing how far we've come this year, whether we've met our goals, etc.
18:07:35 [jsorens] we set some strategic goals for 2004 at the beginning of
the year: some of them we've met, some have changed, others we haven't met
18:07:40 [RussellK] so what was our participant goal for 2004 again?
18:07:56 [jsorens] our goal was 7,000. obviously, we fell short there.
18:08:21 [jsorens] and that was the most important of our goals - the other
goals - raising funds, getting our tax status settled - were just means to ends
18:08:46 [jsorens] so we have to reassess some of our recruitment
18:08:56 [jsorens] here is the picture today as i see it...
18:09:17 [katdillon] Jason, I don't think I've heard you say....what do you
think is the best way to increase recruitment?
18:09:24 [jsorens] some of our recruitment techniques seem not to have
worked well, while others have paid some dividends, and others we're still
18:09:42 [katdillon] (Take your time....didn't mean to fire questions so
18:09:45 [MiclEdlstn] Could you enumerate each?
18:09:52 [jsorens] our mailing to massachusetts libertarians hasn't gone
out yet, & that may have significant positive results
18:10:20 [jsorens] the latest shadow ad campaign in ct has netted only 1
new signup so far, but did get us some positive nh coverage
18:10:27 [jsorens] the problem is getting coverage outside nh, of course
18:10:40 [jsorens] also, the radio campaign in baltimore has netted only 2
or 3 new signups, i believe
18:11:01 [jsorens] now, there is both good news and bad news about the
recruitment rate in 2004
18:11:16 [jsorens] the good news is that the decline in 2004 was apparently
not as great as we expected
18:11:33 [jsorens] the bad news is that the reason for this was that the
recruitment rate in 2003 was apparently not as good as we thought it was
18:11:43 [jsorens] we ran a few numbers recently to get a handle on this
18:12:17 Rinku enters this room
18:12:19 [jsorens] as we all know, over 2000 people who signed up before
august 2003 did not vote in our state vote
18:12:33 [jsorens] of those, several hundred have since indicated that they
are still committed to the fsp, but about 1500 have not
18:12:38 [katdillon] We got good sign up numbers from the "This is True"
18:13:16 [jsorens] if we assume the worst, that none of these are "real"
fsp members, then the signup rate in 2003 was only about 50% better than the
signup rate in 2004
18:13:17 fisher enters this room
18:13:49 [jsorens] this means that we're not necessarily doing a lot wrong
that we used to be doing right, but it also means that the chances of reaching
20,000 by sept 2006 are low
18:14:15 [jsorens] so we'll have to initiate a discussion about changing a
goal that many people see as being core to the fsp (20K signups by 2006)
18:14:50 [jsorens] part of that change may involve encouraging people to
move sooner rather than later, or making different categories of signups to
allow more flexibility...im sure there are other suggestions.
18:15:10 [RussellK] I personally don't think we need 20K to really change
NH for the better
18:15:14 [katdillon] For those who just came, feel free to ask questions.
18:15:17 [rothameric] Nice
18:15:30 [jsorens] i think we'll need to evaluate some of the ongoing
campaigns and have a discussion among the leadership before starting the wider
conversation among fsp members about what to do if 2006 comes and we're still
at around 7-10K
18:15:53 [HardyVT] I always said I only need 500 activist in Vermont to
change our state. NH you'd need a lot more, but you don't need 20k.
18:16:07 [jsorens] but i expect we'll be tossing ideas around publicly by
this time next month, to get a feel for what people think would work best
18:16:33 [jsorens] i agree that we probably need only 10K moderately active
people to have a big effect in nh, and just a few hundred extremely talented
individuals to have that effect
18:16:40 [jsorens] quality matters as much or more than quantity
18:17:15 [jsorens] to echo something kat wrote above, i do think internet
methods of recruitment are still working best. 'this is true' was a big boon;
we'll have to do more of that kind of thing.
18:17:28 bannock enters this room
18:17:47 [RussellK] I could see that combo .... many activists along with
many more people that move for NH quality of life movers
18:17:52 [jsorens] (advocates for self-govt sends out a big newsletter, for
18:18:13 [jsorens] right. also, the website is being redesigned to
emphasize those quality of life issues
18:18:17 [Aldridge] How effective was our presence at the LP convention in
terms of recruitment?
18:19:03 [jsorens] aldridge - we only got about 5 signups at the
convention, but we answered a lot of practical questions about nh for people
whod already signed up or were thinking about it
18:19:12 [jsorens] about 40 people came to a breakout session we held
18:19:28 [jsorens] and the questions were very practical, indicating that
people were taking seriously the idea of moving
18:19:33 Friday enters this room
18:19:50 [katdillon] http://www.margomaps.com/fsp/recruitment/ This isn't
completely up to date, but very helpful
18:19:57 [Rinku] HardyVT> could you repeat the ip address?
18:20:22 [jsorens] yes - kat is now posting weekly numbers on where new
signups heard from us
18:20:28 [MiclEdlstn] How effective was our recruitment at FreedomFest?
18:20:30 [bannock] HardyVT> HardyVT Thanks
18:20:31 [Aldridge] Do you think that setbacks like this could lead to
morale problems and further setbacks?
18:20:36 [HardyVT] 184.108.40.206
18:20:46 [Rinku] thanks
18:21:17 [katdillon] sign up stats are posted weekly on this thread
18:21:39 [jsorens] well, i dont think we've really seen a significant
setback in recruiting. we did have a setback last december through february,
when numbers were quite low, but now recruitment rates are only 50% below those
for 2003 as a whole
18:22:06 [jsorens] considering that 2004 was a major election year, we were
shoved out of the headlines. so i think we'll make up most of that 50% next
18:22:06 [rothameric] Maybe FSP needs to get out more info to other groups,
like the Constitution Party.
18:22:22 [jsorens] however, people will worry that we probably won't reach
the 20K/2006 goal
18:23:44 [jsorens] i do think we should continue to make connections with
other groups, including the constitution party. chris harrison heads up our
efforts here (community liaisons). some of our liaisons are more active than
others. this is a good area to get involved in if youd like to help. its pretty
18:24:00 [jsorens] mostly answering emails and sending out occasional
18:24:20 [rothameric] Works for me!
18:25:36 [jsorens] we're still trying to crack the cato nut. the cato
institute is sympathetic but hasn't covered us at all. even the american
enterprise institute has held a conference on the fsp, so its puzzling that
cato hasnt gotten more involved.
18:26:18 [RussellK] I am really surprised at how all of these think tank
type groups don't want to actually 'do' anything
18:26:26 [jsorens] katdillon> got it
18:26:30 [jsorens] oops
18:26:32 [svillee] It's encouraging that in the "when will you move" poll,
about 50% said they would move regardless of whether we reached 20K
18:26:36 [rothameric] Remember, the Cato Institute is a "Think Tank".
Takes time, ya know...
18:26:49 [RussellK] We don't want to just chronicle the slide into tyranny
18:27:08 [rothameric] Amen to that!
18:27:13 [svillee] Of course, that poll was skewed toward those who are
active on the forum.
18:27:14 FTL_Ian enters this room
18:27:23 [jsorens] svillee - thats true. and after we reach, say, 500 or
1000 people in state, i think even the other 50% will feel comfortable about
18:28:02 [jsorens] if we decide to start encouraging early movers, we'll
need to really work on distributing practical info to all our members: job
market sites, data, etc
18:28:22 [RussellK] I wonder how many people are not waiting for the 20K
but just a job or house sale etc.
18:28:29 [Rinku] HardyVT> yes
18:28:37 [katdillon] Man, that's going to be a blast, having all those
people here! It's great now...ooops, I mean we'll get so much more
18:29:00 [jsorens] many, i think. i know ive been applying for jobs in nh
already. from my perspective, theres no reason not to start hunting now
18:29:05 [FTL_Ian] hello all
18:29:08 [Aldridge] Why was the number 20K chosen? Is it arbitrary, or is
there some reason for it?
18:29:33 [RussellK] I wonder if someone here could answer that
18:29:41 [Rinku] I think jsorens wrote a paper on how 20k was selected
18:29:58 [Rinku] I forget the details though
18:29:59 [jsorens] aldridge - its somewhat arbitrary. it was initially
chosen b/c it seemed like the highest plausible number we could reach. later
research i did showed that 20K could have a significant effect in states under
about 1.2 million population, which is what nh is
18:30:09 [svillee] estimate of how many activists would be needed to make a
difference in a state with a population about 1 million
18:30:31 [jsorens] the revised edition of that research is here:
18:30:39 [katdillon] I think this is it:
18:30:41 [Aldridge] I see. You'll have to forgive me if I ask questions
everyone else knows. I'm a bit new to the FSP.
18:30:46 [svillee] I'm curious about Hardy's comment that 500 would be
enough in VT
18:31:03 [RussellK] that is what chats are for
18:31:06 [jsorens] thats perfectly fine. btw, you can also access the
original essay here:
18:32:15 [RussellK] the 20K still makes sense ...they just don't all have
to be rabid activists
18:32:27 [katdillon] What direction do you think we should go with our
18:32:41 [jsorens] 20k works if most of them do little more than pay annual
dues to an activist organization
18:32:45 [Rinku] how many did it take to start the american revolution?
18:32:53 [jsorens] 10k works if people are generally more active
18:33:01 [Rinku] activists, i mean
18:33:24 [jsorens] they say the american revolution was actively supported
by just 10% of the population... im just going on hearsay there, however.
18:33:26 [HardyVT] VT's a much smaller state. 500 would have to be
dedicated activist - not arm chair viewers. 500 * $50/month is enough to wage
large campaigns in VT.
18:33:36 [Rinku] probably that'd be too difficult to estimate since records
aren't that good.
18:33:57 [Rinku] hm
18:34:04 [jsorens] kat - i think recruitment strategies should focus on
quality of living & the advantages of nh
18:34:16 [Aldridge] Early movers seems like a good idea. If early movers
make some sort of pro-liberty achievement, it could gin up publicity and
18:34:21 [jsorens] if we drop the 20K goal eventually, then the message can
be even more flexible
18:34:30 [HardyVT] 10% would be about right. 1/3 for revolution, 1/3
against, 1/3 in the middle. Then 1/3 of the third for it were activists.
18:35:02 [svillee] VT population is about 600K, roughly half that of NH
18:35:05 [jsorens] we can truly cast ourselves as a 'political chamber of
commerce,' recruiting on a permanent basis business owners, political and
academic leaders, and general liberty lovers who would like to move to nh
18:35:24 [MiclEdlstn] Jason, I'm not clear why a think tank like Cato would
officially support activism (FSP or others). Don't think tanks focus on policy
recommendations and scholarship?
18:35:24 JonM enters this room
18:35:44 [jsorens] i think the meme of 'nh is a good place for
libertarians' has already gotten out around the country. i hear back about the
fsp in the strangest places
18:36:17 [Aldridge] Most of the people I've spoken with have been primarily
concerned with practical matters like employment and quality of living. That is
an important aspect to focus on while recruiting.
18:36:18 [jsorens] one professor at the university of minnesota told me
that her brother was a libertarian & always talked about moving to nh. she
asked me whether that had anything to do with the fsp
18:36:35 [katdillon] How about efforts to improve liberty in NH?
18:36:38 [Rinku] hehe
18:36:40 [svillee] They could view moving to NH as a 'policy
18:36:49 [katdillon] cool
18:36:56 [jsorens] cato could still hold a conference on the idea. aei did
that as part of their competitive federalism project, inviting both supporters
& critics of the idea, including alan bock, michael barone, richard vedder,
18:37:26 [jsorens] we should heavily advertise efforts to improve liberty
in nh as evidence that the fsp is working
18:37:44 [jsorens] but not just efforts to improve liberty, but the social
aspects as well!
18:38:00 [rothameric] How about starting with our new governor?
18:38:04 [MiclEdlstn] Yes, that would fit under their purview.
18:38:05 [jsorens] people need to know that when they move, theyll have an
immediate circle of support, friendship, etc. that matters, believe it or not.
18:38:48 [rothameric] FSP Welcome Wagon?
18:38:54 [katdillon] You know what it was like at porcfest, being
surrounded by people who think like you? Living in NH is become like that
quickly. It's empowering. It feels like we can really make a change
18:39:36 [RussellK] When you move to NH you can count on endless parties
with fellow porcupines
18:40:01 [jsorens] yes, the fsp welcome wagon will really be the only part
of the fsp organization per se that is active in nh. itll be there to welcome
prospectives & participants, show them around, give them info, etc
18:40:43 [rothameric] That might be a great place to start,,,
18:41:12 [jsorens] otherwise, the fsp doesnt guide political or social
activism in nh. since the fsp is in essence an organization of 'outsiders' who
have not moved to nh yet, its not our place to influence nh politics. thats for
the people whove already moved there.
18:41:41 [rothameric] Or for those who have already lived here.
18:41:46 [jsorens] right!
18:42:37 [HardyVT] there lots of groups that are outsiders that try to
influence state's politics.
18:42:57 [katdillon] Mass. democrats?
18:43:21 [rothameric] Ooooohhh, what YOU said!
18:43:43 [RussellK] The FSP has plenty to do helping attract people to NH
and help them get there
18:43:43 [HardyVT] Thinking, the Conservation Law Foundation and
Anti-SMoking league (when it comes to Vermont)
18:44:00 [jsorens] i know. but in my view thats not generally appropriate.
i think local people should be allowed to have the primary say over how they
organize their own communities.
18:44:20 [rothameric] Otherwise, it's truly not free.
18:44:35 George enters this room
18:44:35 [svillee] For what it's worth, I think when the FSP says they
don't try to guide NH politics, people don't believe it, and making the claim
may do more harm than good.
18:44:53 [HardyVT] That's not how life it. Nike influences people, walmart,
18:44:56 [rothameric] Good point.
18:44:57 [katdillon] I think so too, Steve
18:45:06 [Aldridge] What should local groups and individuals be doing in
order to drive recruitment?
18:45:38 [katdillon] What part of the country are you in, Aldridge?
18:45:42 [svillee] For example, if the FSP points to a particular bill that
was passed as "evidence the FSP is working", it's implicit that the FSP
approves of that bill, and wants to guide NH politics further in that
18:46:06 [Aldridge] Huntsville Alabama
18:46:45 [jsorens] oh, we definitely, as individuals, have likes and
dislikes in nh politics. but we're not trying to elect or defeat particular
candidates, or pass particular legislation. we don't lobby.
18:46:45 [RussellK] I think actually having active local groups around the
country helps recruitment
18:47:19 [jsorens] local groups are potentially important. wherever theyve
grown, they've really helped recruitment. the biggest hurdle is getting one
started where one doesnt exist.
18:47:22 [FTL_Ian] The FSP should report on what FSP members are doing, but
make the point that not all FSP members support the stated activism
18:48:02 [rothameric] How are FSP groups formed? By county? By town?
18:48:18 [katdillon] There are a lot of ideas on recruiting here:
18:48:21 [jsorens] at one time, there was a very large local group in
northern ga/al/western sc/western nc, but since i moved from asheville, and
doug hillman (from al) has been less involved, that group seems to have
declined. it could easily be resuscitated however.
18:48:44 [katdillon] local groups are usually by state
18:48:53 [jsorens] heres the way local groups are currently organized
18:48:54 [jsorens] http://freestateproject.org/community/localgroups/
18:49:24 [jsorens] i should note that that large group, the 'kudzu
porcupines,' has now been broken up into the diff states
18:51:33 [rothameric] I know with the NH Constitution Party, we're breaking
it up into counties. That way, we can get an idea of what area is stronger,
18:51:58 [rothameric] And can coordinate info faster, to apply to whatever
situations we may be dealing with.
18:52:54 [katdillon] Roth, do you have problems with not enough member
density in each county?
18:53:03 [FTL_Ian] roth= CP member?
18:53:20 [rothameric] Yep.
18:53:23 vtr enters this room
18:53:34 [MiclEdlstn] I have an appt. shortly. Thanks for the Chat, Jason.
18:53:43 [RussellK] bye
18:53:49 [katdillon] Night Michael!
18:53:50 MiclEdlstn exits from this room
18:54:17 [FTL_Ian] What brings you here tonight, roth? It appears you are
18:54:21 [rothameric] As with any new organization, one has to slowly build
wherever the people pop up from.
18:54:22 [FTL_Ian] Just curious
18:55:09 [rothameric] I like what I hear from the FSP, and as a NH resident
already, I am curious as to how the FSP is going to work here.
18:55:39 [rothameric] I'm not Libertarian, but I don't think that really
18:55:47 [Aldridge] Mr. Sorens, is there anything you'd like to change
about the FSP? Any disappointments or reservations?
18:56:19 [jsorens] you may wish to get involved in the nhla, which is a
nonpartisan action group of general interest - there are already libertarians
and republicans, but i dont believe they have any constitutionists yet
18:56:47 [rothameric] Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.
18:57:12 [jsorens] i definitely am disappointed that recruitment hasnt done
better, but i do feel that we've done just about everything we could. another
disappointment is that some very talented individuals have burned out in
leadership and had to quit their positions. we have high leadership turnover.
18:57:28 [jsorens] being an all-volunteer organization places a lot of
stress on the most active volunteers.
18:57:43 [jsorens] http://www.nhliberty.org
18:58:02 [RussellK] yea Jason...what things have surprised you along the
way in the FSP?
18:58:11 [FTL_Ian] kat- that's great!
18:58:13 [jsorens] but you may want to email specific people, b/c the
website doesnt seem to be updated frequently - i think kat and russell know
more about the nhla
18:58:20 [rothameric] Thanks, Jason.
18:58:44 [FTL_Ian] It seems an "extreme" event has brought out at least one
18:59:13 [jsorens] im certainly surprised that the fsp has done so well.
from a small, idealistic vision to thousands of people signing on, and dozens,
perhaps almost a hundred now, actually picking up stakes and moving...its very
18:59:34 [jsorens] im surprised that the fsp became, for a time, a
political football in nh, part of the democratic-republican partisan
18:59:36 [katdillon] What's going on with NHLA:
18:59:58 [rothameric] Thanks, Kat!
18:59:59 [RussellK] I am always taken with people's stories about their
move to NH
19:00:05 [katdillon] my pleasure
19:00:15 [jsorens] ive also been surprised that the media coverage has
overall been so positive!
19:00:23 [rothameric] Really like that "Underground".
19:00:25 [FTL_Ian] Russell: agreed.. they are fascinating.
19:00:49 [katdillon] Thanks
19:01:41 [JonM] Amanda seemed a bit frazzled on Sunday
19:02:00 [jsorens] well, mary is trying to get me offline, so i'd better
go, unless there remain some urgent questions
19:02:04 [katdillon] Yeah, what was up with Amanda?
19:02:19 [katdillon] Thanks so much, Jason. Have a good night!
19:02:24 [RussellK] good to hear from you Jason
19:02:27 [rothameric] Thanks for your time, Jason. It was great to hear
19:02:29 [JonM] her company bought another company, she's in charge of
19:02:30 [Rinku] jsorens, out of curiousity, has anyone discovered the FSP
through your Civilization 2 scenarios?
19:02:39 [Rinku] (i like them)
19:02:46 [Aldridge] Thank you Mr. Sorens. Good Evening.
19:02:47 [JonM] she's flat out working on that and year end financials
19:03:06 [Rinku] (not an urgent question, sorry)
19:03:16 [jsorens] rinku - not that i know of! i stopped making those years
ago, before the fsp even began... but its always possible. my personal website
used to link to the fsp. (doesnt now, b/c im applying for jobs in left-wing
19:03:35 [FTL_Ian] I have one
19:03:51 [jsorens] youre too kind rinku. there are many better scenarios
out there than my dabblings.
19:03:51 [FTL_Ian] You made reference to doing almost everything for
19:04:03 [Rinku] alright, thanks. my respect for you improved even more
after i played those.
19:04:05 [svillee] I hope that means Amanda will be less frazzled in
19:04:08 [RussellK] I didn't even know about that game
19:04:18 [FTL_Ian] Why has the FSP not partnered with Free Talk Live yet.
Has there ever been a better offer on your table?
19:04:41 [FTL_Ian] I have had a few inquiries from the board, then silence
19:04:49 [FTL_Ian] Not even an objection
19:05:13 [JonM] I kinda have to side with Ian on that, if he's managed two
stations so far, that's a lot better than established radio hosts have done
trying to syndicate
19:05:14 [Rinku] maybe i could mke a civ 2 FSP scenario...
19:05:18 [jsorens] well, this is pretty much up to bob hull, the
advertising director. my guess is that its just a matter of assessing the
effectiveness of radio, the money in the budget, & so forth. but you
definitely want to talk to bob for updates.
19:05:26 [Rinku] would be interesting to attempt
19:05:39 [katdillon] We do keep having sign ups from FTL
19:05:48 [FTL_Ian] I was under the delusion that the board made these
19:05:49 [RussellK] cool rinku
19:05:53 [katdillon] Cool, Rinu!
19:06:13 [FTL_Ian] BobH is an exclusive decision maker when it comes to
19:06:24 [jsorens] nope! the circle tries not interfere in those decisions
at all. the circle (or board) is strictly limited to general policy decisions.
19:06:34 [JonM] the leadership polyhedron!
19:06:39 [FTL_Ian] 4 stations
19:07:13 [jsorens] theoretically, the whole circle/board could overrule a
director, but thats generally not good policy. if a director isnt doing a good
job, that director needs to be replaced. better than micromanaging by committee
19:07:26 [JonM] terrestrial?
19:07:29 [FTL_Ian] Jason, can you email me his phone number to
19:07:46 [jsorens] will do
19:07:46 [FTL_Ian] Jon, yep
19:07:59 [FTL_Ian] plus 3 known FM micros, one running at least 700 watts.
19:08:10 [FTL_Ian] katdillon> *shrug*
19:08:12 [JonM] what are the two new ones?
19:08:28 [JonM] I really think AM680 in boston could stand to lose Michael
19:08:31 [FTL_Ian] I despise this chat... looking forward to testing the
new FSP chat software.
19:08:36 [JonM] that guy grates on me
19:08:43 [FTL_Ian] http://freetalklive.com/affiliates.php
19:08:58 [jsorens] well, gotta run now... good night, all!
19:09:06 [FTL_Ian] Jason: thanks!
19:09:14 [RussellK] bye
19:09:17 [Rinku] good night.
19:09:18 [Friday] thank you, Jason
19:09:21 [jsorens] yw!
19:09:25 jsorens exits from this room